Jump to content

How Far We Can Define A Pen As Vintage!


H1N

Recommended Posts

Hello

After I got a couple of Sheaffer Balance a few days ago I had a hot conversation with a friend talking about - when can we name a pen as (vintage)!?

and which aspect is more important!? time (how long), availability, quality ......etc


Thank you for sharing us your opinions

H1N

post-114836-0-92992000-1451385515_thumb.jpg

Edited by H1N
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 143
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Manalto

    16

  • H1N

    13

  • praxim

    13

  • Ursus

    11

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Wow! - Actually: Two times wow!

 

I think that an exact definition of the concept is impossible.

One might say: Out of production and in a style that belons to former times, but that is not very accurate and there might be plenty exceptions. A too broad definition would be "pens that are not new or that don't look too new", and a too narrow one would be "pens older than a hundred years". Some people sell new pens marked "vintage" simply because they are fountain pens as if that were old fashioned...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to the dictionary to help me respond to this question and, of course, the primary definitions are about wine. The first non-wine entries are these:

9.
representing the high quality of a past time:
vintage cars; vintage movies.
10.
old-fashioned or obsolete:
vintage jokes.
I was about to say that vintage has nothing to do with availability, quality, or any aspect other than the year of manufacture, but the dictionary says otherwise. Still, the practice of calling a retro-styled new pen "vintage" has great potential for confusion and invites accusations of fraud. According to the dictionary, a third-tier pen from the 1950s would not merit the label; more room for confusion, since "high quality" is subjective, particularly in borderline cases. I would stick with year of production and use the term flexibly to clarify that the pen was not recently issued. I'd say before 1990, although could easily be persuaded that the cutoff for the term vintage should be 1980 (or even earlier).
A pen more than 100 years old would be more properly called an antique.
Edited by Manalto

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that it would be meaningfull to distinguish between pens that are vintage and pens that look vintage.

 

The question that Manalto raises about quality is also an interesting one. Perhaps we should not use the term about low quality pens or highly worn pens (I sometimes call the latter wabi-sabi).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we go by the Ebay definition - anything over 3 minutes old is "vintage" as well as being "rare", "mint" and "classic".

 

To me the word vintage merely means that the item belongs to a specific time period, that time period could be a year, a decade, a century or what ever fits the bill. Using that I could say that a new pen is "Vintage 2015" or an older pen is "60's Vintage".

 

To me the time period is important as I'm a collector not a user, but as a collector quality is equally important as is rarity (lack of availability!). To someone looking for a pen to use the availability might the most important factor.

Horses for courses I guess ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are Balance 2 Sheaffers, not Balance Sheaffers. That model, Cobalt Glow was only introduced in 1998 and so younger than lots of my socks. Regardless of which version of "Vintage" we pick it would be very hard to call that pair vintage.

 

Edited to fix color, cobalt glow not cobalt blue

Edited by jar

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although I'd call your socks vintage. How do you manage it? I go through socks like houseplants.

 

My recently-acquired (it's not new or NOS) Sheaffer 'Connaisseur' is a good example of the lure of the word. I'd call it simply "used" but the eBay seller put the more-seductive label "vintage" on it. I think we have the car dealers to thank for introducing euphemisms for used into the lexicon. "Used" is a term now reserved for jaded, aging hookers.

Edited by Manalto

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are Balance 2 Sheaffers, not Balance Sheaffers. That model, Cobalt Glow was only introduced in 1998 and so younger than lots of my socks. Regardless of which version of "Vintage" we pick it would be very hard to call that pair vintage.

 

Edited to fix color, cobalt glow not cobalt blue

Yes Jar, you are right, this pen is known (by users) as Sheaffer Balance II 90s according to the 2 rings on its cap rather than the 1 ring you have on your oldest one, but if you look carefully at this balance catalog you'll not find any of no (2) or (II) inside, anyway ,on here, we are not discussing any of pen CV, our subject is about the word (vintage).

Edited by H1N
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Jar, you are right, this pen is known (by users) as Sheaffer Balance II 90s according to the 2 rings on its cup rather than the 1 ring you have on your oldest one, but if you look carefully to this balance catalog you'll not find any of no (2) or (II) inside, anyway ,on here, we are not discussing any of pen CV, our subject is about the word (vintage) not anything else.

I settled that issue long ago and even include it right above my avatar to educate and inform.

 

"A Vintage Pen has to be older than me."

 

So to be vintage, a pen must have been made before the start of the Casablanca Conference.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

"A Vintage Pen has to be older than me."

 

.

But doesn't that mean that the only vintage pens are those that are cut from a goose feather?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got to stop crediting people from south of the Mason-Dixon with facetiousness.

Well, when you only wear shoes for Sunday Go To Meetings and only wear socks when we went to the big Tent Revival lessen foot washing was scheduled they tend to last a mite longer.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The feather was from the GREAT Fire bird, not a goose.

Man, I'd love to see a review of that pen. I have huge hands, so maybe it would fit me, but it would be nice to see how it would work out for smaller hands. Or did that make a ladies version from the Lesser Firebird? (I believe the Lesser Firebird had pink feathers)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my take on this topic ...

 

There are three elements that I consider whether or not a pen is vintage:

 

Nib; Is the nib made of materials or techniques used on modern pen? Do I use it the same way? Does it have properties no longer found in common pens (ex. Flex)

 

Filling System; Is the filling system still the one used in contemporary pens? This means that everything but piston fillers, cartridges, and converters is vintage (the exception being some Vacuum fillers).

 

Cap & Body; Are the cap and bodies of an extinct design? Are they made from materials no longer being used (ex. hard rubber).

 

If the pen meets the criteria for all three, then it's a vintage pen. Otherwise, it's a pen with a vintage element.

 

In that sense, the NOS Sheaffer Imperial II Deluxe that i purchased two weeks ago has a vintage filling system (Touchdown) but is not a vintage pen.

 

My 2 cents!

 

Pat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are Balance 2 Sheaffers, not Balance Sheaffers. That model, Cobalt Glow was only introduced in 1998 and so younger than lots of my socks. Regardless of which version of "Vintage" we pick it would be very hard to call that pair vintage.

 

I supposed from the beginning that this was the entire point using a picture of those pens - opening for a discussion of whether or not these pens could be called vintage. (Buy the way, I love the colour of those pens.)

 

I think that Sheaffer wanted to make something like new vintage pens when they reintroduced the Balance. Again this is the difference between being vintage and looking vintage.

Edited by Ursus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

"A Vintage Pen has to be older than me."

 

This may make sense as a feeling one has, but on the other hand words should communicate something; and especially on the web where no one can see how old people are, such a subjective definition would make it very difficult to guess what a person means when he uses the word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

This may make sense as a feeling one has, but on the other hand words should communicate something; and especially on the web where no one can see how old people are, such a subjective definition would make it very difficult to guess what a person means when he uses the word.

A don't see the opening for any confusion.

 

I have one age.

 

Others could say "That pen is older than jar" and the meaning is clear.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From my education at FPN, a fountain is "vintage", when it is older than Pakman. :P

He wouldn't lie about this ! :rolleyes:

Auf freiem Grund mit freiem Volke stehn.
Zum Augenblicke dürft ich sagen:
Verweile doch, du bist so schön !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33474
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26573
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...