The Good Old - M400 Vs M600

[ThatPhotoGuy]

Hello all

I have a M400 and a M200 + a spare Golden nib.

Im considering a extra M400 but i cant decide if the extra money for the M600 would be a good choice.

Everyone is praising the size of the M600 and saying its a better size than the m400.

i find the Comfort okay with the m400 (not the biggest hands) but if the m600 was even more comfortable that would be great :-)

The size of the M200/M400 might be making me cramp my fingers a little hard around the pen at times.

i have found a okay deal on a nibless M400(for the extra nib i have) so the difference between that deal and the M600 is higher than usual, but i would get the M600 with a nib in return.

Any experiences and/or thoughts?

Thanks!

[fplover01]

The m600 is definetely more balanced for bigger hands. The M400 is essentially same pen as the M200 with gold nib and better trims and finishing.

 

Depends on what you want. If you want a bigger pen, but still not too big or heavy, the M600 is a nice choice.

 

if you are happy with the M200/M400, then take one of them.

[zhr1996]

I used to have the same thoughts with you,,,After using M600 M700 M400.,i decided a M700 as my EDC and sold the others

 

maybe M700 is the best one for u（its Heavier and more suitable for a big hand ），just buy one and try

 

In china,we think M700(M710) is the only one which is left after using all kinds of modern pelikan FP.

 

HTH

zhr1996

[Lam1]

The great advantage of the M600 over the M400 is the fatter section and slightly larger weight, which makes it a bit more comfortable for larger hands. The barrel is almost the same length (the M600 is about 1mm longer, if that much), capped the M600 seems much longer because the nib seems to be a little bit larger.

 

Although the differences may seem small on paper, they are very significant when using the pens, at least for me. I can use any Pelikan size comfortably, but if a pen is available in both sizes I always choose the M600.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Lam1

[Notgatherox]

I prefer the M600 to the M400, I have medium hands (16cm from wrist to tip of middle finger), and find the extra length useful.

 

 

~Epic

[ThatPhotoGuy]

wow! loads of response!

Thank you!

Im leaning towards the M600.

i think the fatter grip section might be the turning factor for me.

But please to pitch in some more

[amk]

I have very small hands (enough to be a problem for me as a musician: I've had a couple of my wind instruments customised so I can reach the lowest notes) but even I prefer the m600 slightly. There is just that little more weight. The m400 feels quite a bit lighter in my hands.

 

And... you can't get an m400 in vibrant green...

[jkingrph]

I like the slightly larger size of the 600, but like the way my older M 400' write, ie the flex and semi flexnibs.

[fplover01]

I would think that a pen as valuable as a Toledo, would be more appropriate as a desk pen for most normal folks and not as an EDC due to concerns for being lost or damaged. But of course this has to do with how much someone can afford to lose.

 

I have a Pelikan M800 as an EDC and I consider it an appropiate pen for my taste and needs.

 

While the 700 Toledo is an impressive pen, a M800 is even bigger and more suitable for even larger hands. And then there is the 900 Toledo... I think it is nice that Pelikan produces so many sizes of pens, everyone can find something that suits them. I personally consider M800 sized pens to be most of my liking, but I also write eagerly with humble old M200s which perform marvelously.

 

I used to have the same thoughts with you,,,After using M600 M700 M400.,i decided a M700 as my EDC and sold the others

 

maybe M700 is the best one for u（its Heavier and more suitable for a big hand ），just buy one and try

 

In china,we think M700(M710) is the only one which is left after using all kinds of modern pelikan FP.

 

HTH

zhr1996

Edited December 9, 2015 by fplover01

[ThatPhotoGuy]

Thank you everyone.

I ordered a green striped M600 with a M nib (i have a M400 F, B, Italic allready..so M seemed like the missing link).

And some Edelstein Topaz along with it

A toledo is waaaaay out of my league price wise.

[ThatPhotoGuy]

one last question:

 

is the "feel" of the M600 nib widely different from the M400 nibs?

 

i bought a M because i wanted different options but if the writing experience is differet i might i gone for a "F" nib instead

[alexander_k]

The main difference of the M600 I have used daily for over a decade was exactly its (medium) nib: it was more responsive than the M400 nibs I've used and in some respects better than the M800 nibs I loved too. If the M600 weren't a bit too small for my hands, I'd never let it go.

Edited December 9, 2015 by alexander_k

[Bo Bo Olson]

Too bad, I got here too late.

 

The main problem you have is that you hold a pen much too hard. You will have the same problem with the 600.

You have to hold a fountain pen like holding a featherless baby bird....and don't make baby bird paste.

 

A 400 is a good solid, standard sized pen, that was the same size since 1950...or @ the same size posted since the 1930's 100-100n. Those are a tad smaller but post long. Both have great balance....posted.

 

I grew up in standard pen days and a medium-large pen was then "large" ie a P-51, or more than normal. Almost all the pens were standard sized....and balance real well when posted.

 

The '50's mid 60's MB 146 was a medium-large pen....then in the '70's for sure they made them a Large pen. I find my '50's medium-large pen more comfortable and not so clunky. I have a '50's and an early '70's one.

I find large pens clunky, and ill balanced.

 

I get when someone calls a standard sized pen.... small. It's not! It's standard sized.

 

The problem as I see it is many giving advice against the 400 as a size started using fountain pens when they were made Large to be Seen. So their advice due to their experience is different than mine who grew up with Standard sized fountain pens as a norm. When one wanted a light nimble pen to write all day with. The 600 as medium-large is also such and posted has very good balance.

 

In the '50-60's when I was in school and using a fountain pen, we posted. Some folks for religious reasons refuse to post and complain bitterly, a standard pen is too short.

 

I changed over from the 'classic tripod' grip, which is a pressure grip, to the 'forefinger up'** method of grasping a fountain pen....and I find a Large pen too small unless posted. And they are not as well balanced posted as a standard or a medium-large pen.

A regular Classic Tripod grip will not have that problem. But it can take months to learn to lighten your grip with the Classic.

 

**You can look up the 'forefinger up' method...it will give you an automatically light grip...takes some three minutes to learn.

 

So your next 400 must be a '50's-65 one. They have either a semi-flex or a maxi-semi-flex nib. Unless you buy from someone who knows, it's luck of the draw, to which you will get.

(Or a 200 with one of the fine 'true' regular flex nibs.....well they do fit a 600 too so you could get by, by buying a 200's nib...for a better writing expedience than the semi-nail you have coming. @$25.00 for the 200's nib.

You can go thinner or wider than what you have coming on your 600. The 200's nib is not so fat and blobby as a modern 400/600. Gives you a nice clean line and @ + - 1/2 a width smaller.

 

I have '50's 400s that are semi-flex and others that are maxi-semi-flex. (400, 500, 400n & 400nn) The medium small 140 but posts as long as a 400 are all semi-flex as far as I know. I only have two, but no one seems to say they made them also in maxi-semi-flex.

 

Well the '80's-97 M400 is a nice springy 'true' regular flex....those are IMO a better nib than the later '98 and later modern ring at the piston M400 pens which are semi-nail.They are not fat and blobby....caused by cross over Ball Point Barbarians not wanting to spend two and 1/2 minutes learning to hold a fountain pen like a fountain pen and not like a ball point.

I'd suggest one of the '50-65 ones, they cost about the same, and the nib is .

 

The modern 200 is a good 'true' regular flex pen with a nib with bit of spring in it, that all regular flex nibs had. IMO more comfortable to write with than the semi-nail gold 400. I trans-mailed nibs to a guy in England because there are idiots here in Germany that refuse to ship outside of Germany. Those nibs impressed me.

 

In I had 6 or so 400's, I did not need a 200, even though some are very pretty. I got a 215, which has the same nib as the 200. the 215 is a heavier pen in it has a metal body. The Celebry a metal cartridge pen from the '90's-mid 2000's has a nib as good as the 200/215. I have the Celebry pens in both gold and steel and they are =.

 

I do have 'true' regular flex nibs....not everything I have is semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex. There is a difference in feel between 'true' regular flex and semi-nail. I keep saying 'true' regular flex because many might think their modern '98 to now pens much be "regular flex" because that is all they see.

Semi-nail is harder to bend so don't have to be repaired in a lot of Ham Fisted Folks come in from ball points and press the nibs way too hard....being use to the BP plowing the south forty with out the mule.

 

I don't care for the modern post '97 400 or 600's nibs, in they are semi-nail.

I do like my 600, I have a semi-flex B from a 400N on it.... ...but it is the nib that makes it so good.

Before I put that nib on it my 600 was not used as much as it could have been. In spite of good girth and length.

In the nib from a 400 fits a 600 just fine....is solid gold not two toned but 99% of the world don't know that. Like I said, my 400n's semi-flex B makes that 605 one of my better ones....but you need the right nib for it.

 

My first semi-flex nibbed pen was a 140. When I put that nib to the test on my thumb nail, I knew immediate what the fuss was all about.

26 semi-flex and 15 maxi-semi-flex nibbed pens later. I sort of slowed down. 6 Pelikan 'true' regular flex too....one semi-nail 605.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Bo Bo Olson

[carlos.q]

I tend to agree with Bo Bo: if your fingers cramp while writing with a M400 it's probably because you hold your pen too hard. Try searching "tripod grip" on this board and you will find examples of how to hold your pen in such a way you will never cramp your fingers again...

[I like mango cheesecake]

I have a m400 and it HAS to be posted otherwise it's too small for my hand. I don't have a m600 but I gather it's similar in size to a 146 or a 580 both of which I have and those I can use unposted.

[The Good Captain]

I use my 200s, 400s and 600s about equally and from what I remember, they all hold the same amount of ink. You can't really go wrong with any. Although I have small hands, I still find the 800 size and weight comfortable and actually, my choice of pen sometimes is dictated solely by the depth of my shirt pockets!

[ThatPhotoGuy]

Thanks again for the replies... i will keep the medium nib i recon

 

In reguard of your input Bo Bo, thanks for taking the time to write a reply that detailed!

i think a bigger grip section would still benefit me however i follow your advise and resarch on pen grips.

I actually have a vintage pelikan 400NN pen, its out for nib adjustment as we speak. :-)

[Bo Bo Olson]

That Photoguy.....thanks...

 

A modern 146 is a Large pen, the '50's-60's ones are a medium-large one....and it's nib is more up my alley than the modern.

The 149 has always been a giant pen...over sized.

 

The 600 is a medium-large pen like a P-51....like your 400nn to ....it is that tad longer than a 400 to take it into the next size up. It though is thinner than the 600, the same width as the normal 400.

 

Now ..as soon as you get a 'true' regular flex nib, you should test your 400nn to see if it is semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex nib. Mine is the latter.

 

I have from the '50's, a semi-flex 400 and 400n (+ two 140s), and a maxi-semi-flex 500 and 400nn.The 500 is a 400 with a rolled gold cap and piston cap.

I also have a 400 D nib...the nails nail....good for opening up tanks. It was part of a lot at a live auction.

 

Got to have a true regular flex...like a 200 to test nib flex. (could always just buy a 200's nib in a size you don't have for @ $25 and have another nib width to play with inks with.)

Regular flex depending on the ink is often very good with shading inks, that might be a bit too wet in semi/maxi flex.

 

First you have to mash a true regular flex to a 3X tine spread vs a light down stroke.

Semi-flex needs half that pressure to go 3 X.

Maxi-semi-flex half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a 'true' regular flex 3 X. ...The three subsets are all part of a 3X tine spread only set.

The problem is having a semi-vintage or vintage 'true' regular flex as your base.

 

I find the 600 a tiny tad too small to write with un-posted...it can be done of course, but un-posted like the 400/140 it lacks balance. It for me balances very well posted.

 

Do wax your pen if you fear posting mars, I've not had a mar because of that.

 

The 600 is still a light nimble pen....an 800** is a large pen like a modern 146, and like all of my Large pens, lacking balance un-posted and clunky posted. The '50's medium-large 146 has nice balance.

 

I have a vintage 400n semi-flex B nib on it and am very happy with it.

 

There are of course folks that think 180 out from me on pens....some really like giant pens like the 1000 and 149.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Bo Bo Olson

[DrCodfish]

First: I am pleasantly surprised to learn that I am in such good company with my preference for the M600 form. I always thought I was an outlier. I once asked myself, "Self? Since you prefer the M600 version over all others, would you consider selling them (the others) off?" (I have more M400s, several in the 200 range, 800's and a fist full of 140's and 120's. The answer was an emphatic "No way, no day" . I like all my Pel's but the one which is always in the pen stand on my writing desk is a simple blue stripe M600 wth the most wonderful Motishaw stub nib.

 

As for your hand cramping I tend to agree with Bobo: cramps are a function of a tight grip held too long. The diameter of the pen does play into it however. Whether necessary or just psychological, we all tend to grip smaller diameter pens more tightly, because theere is less surface in contact with the finge tips. It may not be neccessary but if your mind thinks it is, well then it is (perception is reality).

Edited December 15, 2015 by DrCodfish

[mercurius]

I have an M600and although it has a super smooth nib, I find it a bit too big a pen for my small hand. Most of all I love my M215s which I tend to use every day out of preference of all my pens.

 

I just wish that the M400 had a bit bit more heft to it and I would get one.

 

Any other recommendations for smaller Pelikans with a bit of weight to them?