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Mob Mentality

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Hello all. I recently purchased what I thought to be a NOS Parker 21 on eBay for $20. After receiving it I believe that it may be an areometric Parker 51 demi. The pen came with a Parker 21 cap and a barrel that seems a bit to big for the pen. The picture below shows a Parker 51 at the bottom, a Parker 21 Mark II in the middle, and the pen in question at the top. As a side note the barrel that came with the pen does not fit on the Parker 21 Mark II. It it definitely smaller than both the full sized Parker 51 and the Parker 21 and has the same clutch ring as the Parker 51. On the filler it is just stamped Parker whereas the Parker 51 and 21 both have stamps that say, Parker 51 and Parker 21 respectively. I have since used the pen, it writes very well. Any thoughts as to what it could be?

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah48/Davide_Borrelli/20150925_130646_zpsnuwpiyfp.jpg

Edited by Mob Mentality

"Our chief want is someone who will inspire us to be what we know we could be."

 

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Hello all. I recently purchased what I thought to be a NOS Parker 21 on eBay for $20. After receiving it I believe that it may be an areometric Parker 51 demi. The pen came with a Parker 21 cap and a barrel that seems a bit to big for the pen. The picture below shows a Parker 51 at the bottom, a Parker 21 Mark II in the middle, and the pen in question at the top. As a side note the barrel that came with the pen does not fit on the Parker 21 Mark II. It it definitely smaller than both the full sized Parker 51 and the Parker 21 and has the same clutch ring as the Parker 51. On the filler it is just stamped Parker whereas the Parker 51 and 21 both have stamps that say, Parker 51 and Parker 21 respectively. I have since used the pen, it writes very well. Any thoughts as to what it could be?

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah48/Davide_Borrelli/20150925_130646_zpsnuwpiyfp.jpg

Could you show us the barrels of all the three pens side by side?

Khan M. Ilyas

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Absolutely. Although the barrel is about the same length as the Parker 21 barrel the diameter is not the same. I can provide precise measurements if you'd like.

 

 

 

 

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah48/Davide_Borrelli/20150925_134759_zpsmacklxso.jpg

Edited by Mob Mentality

"Our chief want is someone who will inspire us to be what we know we could be."

 

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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It looks to be the later version of P21 Super. The P21 Super also came with a 51 like clutch ring. All my 21 Super pens say only 'PARKER' on the filler and not 'PARKER 21' .

Khan M. Ilyas

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Thanks mitto. The barrel it came with is slightly to big for it yet too small to fill my other parker 21s. Does your Parker 21 Super barrel fit other parker 21 pens? I would like to get a barrel that fits it properly and thought all 21 barrels were the same diameter. What is the diameter of the section of your P 21 super? I can measure mine and see if it's the same.

"Our chief want is someone who will inspire us to be what we know we could be."

 

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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See the 21 Super later version (51 type clutch ring) and the 51 demi side by side :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See the difference in the design of the hoods. The barrels are Interchangeble though.

 

And now see the difference in the barrel lips of both 21 Super later version (with 51 like clutch ring) and the 51 demi. Lips of the barrel of 51 demi are straight while that of 21 are kind of tapered :

 

 

 

Pen above is 51 demi in all three pictures.

Edited by mitto

Khan M. Ilyas

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There are actually two sizes of Demi's ... sort of. There is actually a 'Slender' with a barrel diameter of ~.43" and a Regular Demi with a barrel diameter of ~.45".

 

Both are ~5" long as opposed to ~5-3/8" - 5-1/2" long capped for the standard. http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref_info/51_profile.htm may will have more accurate information.

 

Ron

Measuring with my digital calipers, The section is 0.416" and the barrel is 0.453". So now I'm not sure seems like a demi barrel. But the filler seems like that of a Parker 21. Could be a franken pen. I don't have the measurements of another P21 super for comparison.

"Our chief want is someone who will inspire us to be what we know we could be."

 

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Yes, the barrels of P21 Super earlier and later models are all Interchangeble. And yes, the 51 demi slender and P21 Super barrels are also Interchangeble.

Khan M. Ilyas

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Thanks so much. So the barrel I have is a regular size demi that's why it doesn't fit right. Any ideas as to where I could get a Parker 21 super barrel in forest green? I've checked eBay...

"Our chief want is someone who will inspire us to be what we know we could be."

 

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Thanks so much. So the barrel I have is a regular size demi that's why it doesn't fit right. Any ideas as to where I could get a Parker 21 super barrel in forest green? I've checked eBay...

Right now I have 17 Super 21s in front of me including three greens shipped by a local seller on the understanding that I select the ones I like and return the rest. Seller's demand for each is $8 excluding three part pens that are $5 each. And one among the part pens is green. I have selected only five pens and am returning the rest. I could buy the green part pen for you but the shipping charges to US and EU are exorbitantly high ($75 for a parcel upto 0.5kg). Local postage is only $2 for upto 1kg parcel. It is said that the charges reach this high level because of US /EU imposed duties /charges on parcels arriving from this part of the globe.

Khan M. Ilyas

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Thanks mitto. I would love to get the barrel but the shipping is far to high. For $75 I could buy a Parker 51 or better.

Your offer is however much appreciated.

"Our chief want is someone who will inspire us to be what we know we could be."

 

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Thanks mitto. I would love to get the barrel but the shipping is far to high. For $75 I could buy a Parker 51 or better.

Your offer is however much appreciated.

Not too high. Unfathomably and unreasonably high. In fact the inability of the local sellers to ship their goods to foreign buyers, as a result of these skyrocketing shipping charges, is keeping the prices so low in the local markets that are overflooded with all make and brands of vintage pens. So the disadvantage of the local sellers turns into advantage of the local buyers.

Khan M. Ilyas

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I was wondering how you were getting super p21s for $8. Here a regular Parker 21 will cost $15 and up. I recently got lucky and got a regular black p21 mark II for 10 including shipping. It's too bad shipping prices are so exorbitantly high there. At least you can get good pens for less money. If I can find a barrel here it'll probably cost me $15 or more which is kind of silly considering I only paid $20 for the pen to begin with.

"Our chief want is someone who will inspire us to be what we know we could be."

 

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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And yes, the 51 demi slender and P21 Super barrels are also Interchangeble.

 

Are you sure?

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next great pen show is on schedule for August 27-28-29, 2021. If we all do what we need to do...you can Book your travel and tables and make SF 2021 the Return. 
 

 My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Are you sure?

Here. Pen above is the 51 demi and the one below is the 21 Super:

 

And now see both the pens with the barrels changed. Pen above is again the 51 demi slender (with 21 Super's barrel) while pen below is 21 Super (with 51 demi's barrel) .

Edited by mitto

Khan M. Ilyas

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That's very interesting about 51 Demi and 21 Super barrels being interchangeable. I would never have suspected it.

 

I just tried this. The 21 Super section screws all the way into the 51 Demi barrel. Then the 21 Super cap goes on, but the Demi cap does not fit over the 21 Super section.

 

The 51 Demi section screws into the 21 Super barrel, but does not screw all the way down, leaving a slight gap where threads are visible. The 21 Super cap goes on over the 51 Demi sectiion, but not as securely as it goes on over its own Super 21 section.

 

My conclusion is that if you have a 21 Super with a cracked barrel and if you can find a 51 Demi barrel that is an acceptable color, you have a fix.

 

I'm not sure what to make of this. I do have a couple of 21 Supers that are about as good a functioning pen as a 51, which means they are among the best, and I suppose that if I were to break a barrel of one I could use one of my spare 51 Demi barrels as a compromise fix. I would never have tried this, because I would have assumed that 51 and 21 don't mix. Good to know and thanks to Mitto for the information.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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That's very interesting about 51 Demi and 21 Super barrels being interchangeable. I would never have suspected it.

 

I just tried this. The 21 Super section screws all the way into the 51 Demi barrel. Then the 21 Super cap goes on, but the Demi cap does not fit over the 21 Super section.

 

The 51 Demi section screws into the 21 Super barrel, but does not screw all the way down, leaving a slight gap where threads are visible. The 21 Super cap goes on over the 51 Demi sectiion, but not as securely as it goes on over its own Super 21 section.

 

My conclusion is that if you have a 21 Super with a cracked barrel and if you can find a 51 Demi barrel that is an acceptable color, you have a fix.

 

I'm not sure what to make of this. I do have a couple of 21 Supers that are about as good a functioning pen as a 51, which means they are among the best, and I suppose that if I were to break a barrel of one I could use one of my spare 51 Demi barrels as a compromise fix. I would never have tried this, because I would have assumed that 51 and 21 don't mix. Good to know and thanks to Mitto for the information.

pajaro, the demi's hood also fits 21 Super. If you have a demi's hood and barrel on a 21 Super, you have effectively a demi 51 pen.

 

My advice :

 

Get the 51 demi's body (both barrel and hood) for your 21 Super and get away with the cheapness of the 21 plastic. Needless to say the demi's cap (as well as 21 Super's) would perfectly fit on a 21 Super with demi's body.

Edited by mitto

Khan M. Ilyas

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The barrel threads are the same on both the 21 Super and the 51 Demi. The caps to do not interchange because the OD of the 21 Super is larger. Thus the barrels are not really the same.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next great pen show is on schedule for August 27-28-29, 2021. If we all do what we need to do...you can Book your travel and tables and make SF 2021 the Return. 
 

 My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Jerome Tarshis

The caps to do not interchange because the OD of the 21 Super is larger. Thus the barrels are not really the same.

 

Indeed not.

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