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Question On Ebay Purchase


Zaphod01

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Why weren't you asking these questions before you bid?

24 hours bidding period and seller didn't respond to my questions.

 

Reading the responses, I will go ahead and pay the won items. I hope paypal/ebay will cover me in case this is not legit. It's over a thousands worth of combined items.

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Personally, I would never bid that much money on anything from a person with only 40 or so feedbacks who is from Thailand. If I'm in USA and buying something from Joe Smith in Indianapolis for $600 and they had 40 positive feedbacks sure. But not from Thailand.

 

Also, even if they do arrive they could likely be counterfeits or else knock-offs and not the real deal. That would be harder to prove to eBay and/or PayPal than if they do not arrive.

 

Yes you are completely protected by eBay and PayPal if they do not arrive. You'll get your money back if the items don't show up, but I am not sure how long the time period will be before PayPal feels confident in refunds. I would wait a month and if they have not arrived then file a claim with PayPal/eBay. If buyer fails to respond (there is a period of time they allow during dispute) you'll get your refund. If they respond but have no proof items were shipped that could get in a gray area and delay refund.

 

I have sold things on eBay - lots of things valued from $10 to $5,000 and will occasionally have non-paying buyer. I open unpaid item case. But seller has to do that. If seller isn't legit they'll probably not do this. Even if they do, eBay's policy is pretty flexible towards buyer. Their policy states: "Excessive unpaid items on a buyer's account may result in a range of consequences, including limits on or loss of buying privileges. Even if you don't have excessive unpaid items, we may limit your buying until you've established a good buying history or paid for the items you've committed to." So the worst that could happen to you is they limit your buying privileges for a while. Big deal. That is probably a better thing to happen than sending a lot of money and not getting items or getting counterfeit items and having to hassle for money over a 2-3 month period.

 

If it were me, I never would bid on such items. But in your case the bid is already done. In that situation I would simply not pay. If buyer demands payment tell them you did not notice they are from Thailand and just don't feel comfortable with transaction. They might let you off the hook. If not and they open case, just let it process and you might get slapped on the wrist but your money will still be in your pocket and you've eliminated risks of item not showing or counterfeit item.

 

And next time think before you bid!

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24 hours bidding period and seller didn't respond to my questions.

 

 

 

And that didn't tell you something???

Edited by Charles Rice
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Pay with a credit card via paypal. You will get double protection that way. In case ebay doesn't side in your favor (assuming you're in the right) you can initiate a chargeback with your credit card company and they will investigate it.

 

Now if you do receive a counterfeit, refuse to ship the item back as it violates the ebay policies and demand a full refund. I have around 300 feedback on ebay, all positive and probably half as selling and other half as buying. I have received 2 counterfeits and I refused to spend my own money to send back a counterfeit for the seller to scam someone else. Both times when I brought it up with ebay as they told me to send it back for a refund, ebay ended up telling me to destroy the counterfeits and they gave me a full refund. It seems silly to me that the buyer should have to lose on shipping fees because he got scammed.

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How are you protected if the seller withdraws the money after receiving payment?

This has been covered, but just for good measure...

 

Ebay/PayPal will refund money if it's counterfeit. They charge back against the sellers bank that they transferred the money to.

 

You are completely protected against counterfeits and lack of shipment.

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This has been covered, but just for good measure...

 

Ebay/PayPal will refund money if it's counterfeit. They charge back against the sellers bank that they transferred the money to.

 

You are completely protected against counterfeits and lack of shipment.

 

They will not chargeback the seller's bank. I am pretty sure that is illegal. What will happen in the case that the seller has no funds in his/her paypal, they will have a negative balance and cannot use paypal again until that balance is paid off. The buyer will be protected and will be receive the refund though.

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They will not chargeback the seller's bank. I am pretty sure that is illegal. What will happen in the case that the seller has no funds in his/her paypal, they will have a negative balance and cannot use paypal again until that balance is paid off. The buyer will be protected and will be receive the refund though.

You would be wrong. They can and do initiate an ACH chargeback if they find for the buyer and take the funds back. It's perfectly legal for them to do so.

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You would be wrong. They can and do initiate an ACH chargeback if they find for the buyer and take the funds back. It's perfectly legal for them to do so.

 

Sorry but I have to completely disagree. Do a quick google search and you will see that Paypal cannot legally take money from your own personal bank account without your approval. (Setting up auto payment of ebay monthly fees may cover chargebacks but the bank account would be paying the fees, not the chargeback per say). I had a buyer try to do this to me once and I had to approve it before any money ever left my account.

 

They can do a withdrawal reversal but that means the funds had not been transferred into your bank account yet. If it was possible for people to taken money out of your bank without your permission, I'm sure many scammers would have already done so.

 

https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/can-paypal-take-money-out-of-my-bank-account-if-i-have-a-verified-bank-account.503890/

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-28/1421480-

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-claims/Will-Paypal-take-money-from-my-bank-without-permissions-or/td-p/491186?profile.language=en-gb

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=509728

Edited by mc021
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You would be wrong. They can and do initiate an ACH chargeback if they find for the buyer and take the funds back. It's perfectly legal for them to do so.

 

So paypal can transfer money back to the buyer, even if the seller`s bank account is empty(no money) and/or closed? That`s impressive.

Edited by rochester21
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It certainly is bizarre, but if you are paying via Paypal you should be protected in case it is a fraud. You only have one hour from the end of the bidding to cancel, so if you have not cancelled already, you are going to have to work with the seller.

 

 

Not entirely correct.

 

I have done a ton of business with Thailand but you have to exercise basic common sense. This seller sold small items to build a record then dumps high end stuff all at once? You should have run screaming in the opposite direction!

 

Paypal does NOT protect you - I have had to do a couple of Paypal reviews where I won but they told me that unfortunately the seller didn't have any money in their account so I could suck wind. Unless you have a Paypal account hooked ONLY to a Visa card, you are a babe in the woods. You NEED the Visa dispute process as a back up if and when the normal Paypal process fails you.

 

Given all that, while I would still do business with Thailand and other dubious sources (I have been buying half price pens from Turkey lately as people don't trust sellers there as much), it makes no sense to do so without evaluating your chances that it is a fraudulent auction.

 

In the case of the ones you bit on, I'd say that greed got you, you screwed up, and it is probably 100% that you would never get the goods. Send the seller a message saying that you are ready to go, but what is a combined cost and see what they do. If they don't respond, at least you have an excuse for holding off paying. Chances are the auctions will be deleted - refer it to Ebay and see what they say. And next time do your research and have your second thoughts before, not after you hit the' enter' key.

Bill Spohn

Vancouver BC

"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence"

 

Robert Fripp

https://www.rhodoworld.com/fountain-pens.html

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Sorry but I have to completely disagree. Do a quick google search and you will see that Paypal cannot legally take money from your own personal bank account without your approval. (Setting up auto payment of ebay monthly fees may cover chargebacks but the bank account would be paying the fees, not the chargeback per say). I had a buyer try to do this to me once and I had to approve it before any money ever left my account.

 

ACH deposits can be (and are) reversed. This happens every single day. By trade I am a banker, and have seen it happen many many times. They can draw an account negative, and you're on the hook for the amount plus overdraft and interest if applicable.

 

You can direct me to ten thousand people on the internet saying that it's not true. I've seen idiots posting online about an onion in my socks at night protecting me from the flu, just because you've read it doesn't mean it's true. I work for one of the worlds largest banks, and I assure you, if they reverse an ACH transfer to your account, the bank will send the money back. It's perfectly legal and happens every day.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I would like to update everyone on the conclusion of this case. It is a learning point for me and I hope for others as well.

 

Thank you for everyone who has participated in the discussion. Despite some comments with apathy, I consider that as being caring given you taken time to respond at all.

 

Not everyone is an experienced eBayer. One person would heave different values from others in term of trust, risk appetite and others. So it is quite hard to say what is correct and what is wrong. Only through these real cases, we can draw observations which help others in the future.

 

The seller has not responded to my questions and my requests for proof of shipping was ignored. eBay Customer service was completely unhelpful as it asked me to wait for 5 weeks before opening a case. From there, it will take another few weeks hence to total process can be up to 2 months. I realise that one can open a case with Paypal sooner than eBay. Reading between the fine line, when paying with Paypal, eBay will forward any claims to Paypal anyway. So there is no need to wait for eBay if you have a strong case, just open Paypal dispute and they are more helpful.

 

I found eBay customer service won't respond to emails. When they do, it takes 5 days (much longer than 2-3 days they promised). The local eBay customer service officer was rather non-symphatetic and not with customer service minded. Paypal, on the other hand, has very friendly and professional customer service. I am glad those two are splitting up and driving up competition.

 

When the Paypal case was opened, the seller was requested to respond. After so many reminders, the seller didn't respond hence it was an automatic rule in my favour. I'd have to wait a week or so for my purchases to be refunded.

 

Bad apples like this ruin new sellers from starting up

Edited by Zaphod01
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It saddens me to see this happen to good and honest people.

 

This scam is as old as Ebay and I have seen it happen many times. I once saw a seller from Thailand who had over 600 positive feedbacks over 3 months selling items from 1 cent to a couple of dollars. They then began to sell premium fountain pens and even a Rolex or two and buyers actually purchased everyone of them being taken to the cleaners. The buyers greed for a good deal was their downfall. And the thieves know this.

 

Listen.... Ebay / Paypal will not refund your money if you are shilled regardless of what they promise. Last year I had several items from a seller that did not arrive. They were $10.00 items but I did open a case. I have been and Ebay buyer / seller for since July 1998 and have almost 700 positive feedbacks. Never any problems one way or the other with buyers or sellers. After I opened the case within one day Ebay sided with the seller never giving me a reason as to why they did so. It was also obvious that they did NO investigation as they never contacted me for any input from my end. Just sided with the seller and then when I protested Ebay never responded to any of my emails.

 

The only reason Ebay gives a "Buyer Protection Program" that "guarantees that the original cost plus shipping will be refunded...." is to alleviate buyer fears of being scammed. Your fears are minimized, you pull the trigger thinking that you are covered, and you have bought into the purpose of the program. To get you to buy! But God forbid that you ever need to use that "Buyer Protection Program".

 

If you are scammed you are completely on your own. Count on it. If you lose your money write it off as a cheap education and become wiser than you were before you entered into these transactions. (Do a Google search on "Ebay buyer protections is ... worthless" and you will pull up a myriad of people with very bad experiences trusting Ebay's "word"). Caveat emptor. It is your responsibility to protect yourself not Ebay's and you can be sure they will not be refunding any funds to you out of their pockets! I do not mean to sound unsympathetic, but this is hard reality.

 

With that said, I enjoy shopping on Ebay, but that is because I understand due diligence. I always buy the seller and not just the item. I am very sorry this happened to you. Truly! It angers me when I see good people get shafted, but please realize that the only real protection you have is yourself.

 

In all likelihood the thief even stole the photos of the pens he was selling. Sheesh!

 

I would say he will drain his PP account as soon as the money shows up and then open another one under a different name. There is nothing to stop them from doing so. No one will be kicking down his door to arrest them in Thailand and Ebay knows it is a lost cause. His PP account will be dinged for the $1000.00 + and will stay in a negative status until it is closed by PP. But....Ebay sure did its part! AND received their fees!!! The BPP just didn't work out for you because the seller has no money in their PP account to return to you and never will.

 

Again, my deepest sympathies! But don't give up. Just be careful and ask questions. There are many here on FPN that are fantastic pen connoisseurs, have vast experience acquiring writing instruments over the years and will be more than happy to help you in any way.

 

Please keep us apprised if there are any changes and I sincerely hope I am wrong about all of the above.

 

Cheers!

Edited by Bisquitlips

"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."  - Selwyn Duke    

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bisquitilps, Thanks for your kind comments. It is indeed a real life - we try our best to be honest and treated likewise in return, but it doesn't always happen.

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Bisquitilps, Thanks for your kind comments. It is indeed a real life - we try our best to be honest and treated likewise in return, but it doesn't always happen.

 

Very much so agree Zaph!

 

I deeply hope you get some relief on all this. Please keep us informed.

"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."  - Selwyn Duke    

 

 

 

 

 

 

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