Curing Time

[kirchh]

 

Whoa Nellie.

 

"Manufacturer manuals generally recommended it"?

 

I will admit to Not having repaired any Wide range of different maker friction fit pens. OTOH, I DO pay attention in

class here on FPN.

 

But I was Not aware, have NEVER read anywhere on FPN, where Most All pens Came from the factory with sections shellaced in. I sure know Esterbrooks weren't and in volume, they were one of The Biggest makers.

 

If the Majority of the big 4 pens sections were shellaced in, I'd sure like to hear one of the Pros tell me so 'cause I sure haven't heard this before.

 

Scroll up a little and read David Nishimura's post.

 

I would actually like to See Exactly what "these manuals" say use the shellac for. Is it increasing a loose sections diameter as we should do or Glueing a section in, which let me be clear, I don't think the factories did themselves.

 

It's a Friction Fit. By definition that Doesn't require shellac.

 

Again, we were discussing lever fillers. There is no need for the section to barrel be Sealed.

 

 

Have to ask: what's with the random capitalization? It makes your posts hard to read, because it looks like new sentences are starting in the middle of other sentences.

 

"Friction fit" does not by definition mean that shellac cannot or should not be applied to secure the parts. It merely means that there is a cylindrical mortise and tenon joint, as opposed to, say, a screw joint.

 

--Daniel

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

Scroll up a little and read David Nishimura's post.

 

 

Have to ask: what's with the random capitalization? It makes your posts hard to read, because it looks like new sentences are starting in the middle of other sentences.

 

"Friction fit" does not by definition mean that shellac cannot or should not be applied to secure the parts. It merely means that there is a cylindrical mortise and tenon joint, as opposed to, say, a screw joint.

 

--Daniel

 

It's NOT Radom capitalization in the least.

 

It's Absolutely Purposeful capitalization where I Think capitalization is helpful for added emphasis.

 

I apologize if it inhibits your ability Daniel to recognize randomness or yea, even the gist of my post.

 

I saw, read and understood every post here, David's included.

 

At least to me, it was clear in my post that I was asking for More Clear evidence of Exactly what these factory manuals said about shellacing sections into barrels rather than just a nebulous "it's referred to". IMO, I made my still remaining question(s) quite clear.

 

PS; Daniel I obviously don't have the same Friction Fit Bible that you possess, but at least the Wiki page on friction fitting Absolutely Does state that By Definition, no additional adhesive is required in such a fitment.

https://en.wikipedia...nterference_fit

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited February 27, 2015 by OcalaFlGuy

[OcalaFlGuy]

Dup Sorry

Edited February 27, 2015 by OcalaFlGuy

[OcalaFlGuy]

Dup Sorry

Edited February 27, 2015 by OcalaFlGuy

[OcalaFlGuy]

Dup sorry

[Nanor]

I believe that Sheaffer used to shellac the sections to the barrels. I have one of the old repair manuals, and it mentions breaking a shellac seal between the barrel and section to remove it.

 

 

Yes, you will find this referred to in repair manuals from virtually all the major manufacturers of the era.

 

 

The repair manuals may refer to "breaking the shellac seal between the barrel and section" but I'd be interested to know if these manuals specifically mention applying wet shellac between the section and barrel on assembly?

 

I have encountered it on pens I've repaired, but it's not something I would consider doing. I would have thought that a bond resisting a shear load across a relatively large area, which should already an interference fit, could potentially require so much force to overcome that the pen might not survive; so I'd be surprised if it is a practice that a pen manufacture would advise?

[bsenn]

 

 

 

The repair manuals may refer to "breaking the shellac seal between the barrel and section" but I'd be interested to know if these manuals specifically mention applying wet shellac between the section and barrel on assembly?

 

I have encountered it on pens I've repaired, but it's not something I would consider doing. I would have thought that a bond resisting a shear load across a relatively large area, which should already an interference fit, could potentially require so much force to overcome that the pen might not survive; so I'd be surprised if it is a practice that a pen manufacture would advise?

I doubt pen manufacturers cared. My thinking is that with the availability of replacement parts (and entire pens) that manufacturers would balance easy-to-repair with hard-for-the-user-to-easily-disassemble (and screw something up) and come down on the let's-make-it-hard-for-the-user-to-screw-up side of the equation.

 

By the way, do any repair manuals mention cyanoacrylate? Because I think I've found that at least once...

 

Brian

[rtrinkner]

Does anybody have a repair manual to quote verbatim? I'm not wedded to a particular technique, but I'd like to follow the manufacturer suggestions, if possible. On the other hand, it's true that we're operating in an age very different from the when the manufacturers were still repairing these vintage pens. They obviously had plenty of replacement parts or could provide a new pen to replace one a repairer had broken.

[kirchh]

Does anybody have a repair manual to quote verbatim? I'm not wedded to a particular technique, but I'd like to follow the manufacturer suggestions, if possible. On the other hand, it's true that we're operating in an age very different from the when the manufacturers were still repairing these vintage pens. They obviously had plenty of replacement parts or could provide a new pen to replace one a repairer had broken.

 

Easily found; this is from the 1941 Sheaffer repair manual:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Detail_from_1941_Repair_Manual.jpg

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

From Parker's circa 1934 Duofold repair manual:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Parker_1934_Repair_Manual_Detail.jpg

 

--Daniel

[OcalaFlGuy]

<Sigh> I guess I have to break this down Even More for it to be understandable...

 

Can someone with a WIDE knowledge of ALL top 3 tier LEVER filler pens attest to those pens Coming New from the factory with their sections shellaced in?

 

IF such a statement can be accurately made, then why did NONE of the Millions of Esterbrooks come with a shellaced in section?

 

WHY would the factory recommend shellacing in a section in a Repair manual IF they did not sell the pen new in that condition?

 

#1,3 being The Cornerstone of "my position". I haven't seen anyone address those yet.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[Nanor]

Thanks Daniel, I stand corrected. However it's not something I can see myself doing to a pen that has a satisfactory interference fit between the section and barrel.

[kirchh]

From Wahl-Eversharp's 1923 repair manual:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Wahl_1923_Service_Manual_Detail.jpg

 

--Daniel

[OcalaFlGuy]

(Though my Main questions still remain unanswered...)

 

Yeah, and those same manuals probably told you to use Alcohol lamps to open pens up with too.

 

We don't do that now either.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[rtrinkner]

Awesome research, Daniel. Thanks.

 

Richard

[kirchh]

 

It's NOT Radom capitalization in the least.

 

It's Absolutely Purposeful capitalization where I Think capitalization is helpful for added emphasis.

 

It's not; capitalizing the first letter of a word in the middle of sentence is not a recognized mechanism for conveying emphasis, and the reader stumbles over these capitalized words, so the technique is not helpful; quite the opposite, in fact. You'll notice that other writers -- here and elsewhere -- do not use this system. Capitalizing an entire word is conventionally used to add emphasis, though that conveys a LOT of emphasis and can be construed as shouting; in some situations, italics work best, but I would not discourage the use of underlining for that purpose as well, though there is no single technique that is best for all circumstances.

 

I apologize if it inhibits your ability Daniel to recognize randomness or yea, even the gist of my post.

 

No worries; I suspect no one has pointed this out to you before, so you weren't aware of it.

 

 

I saw, read and understood every post here, David's included.

 

Well, David wrote,

 

"you will find [shellac securing sections to barrels] referred to in repair manuals from virtually all the major manufacturers of the era"

 

and you had no comment, but rtrinkner wrote,

 

"manufacturer manuals generally recommended the practice"

 

and you replied,

 

"If the Majority of the big 4 pens sections were shellaced in, I'd sure like to hear one of the Pros tell me so 'cause I sure haven't heard this before."

 

At least to me, it was clear in my post that I was asking for More Clear evidence of Exactly what these factory manuals said about shellacing sections into barrels rather than just a nebulous "it's referred to".

 

You said you'd "NEVER read anywhere on FPN" that sections were shellaced in place by manufacturers; I was pointing out that David had just made exactly such a statement here on FPN. I agree you were also asking for primary-source evidence of that assertion (which has now been provided).

 

PS; Daniel I obviously don't have the same Friction Fit Bible that you possess, but at least the Wiki page on friction fitting Absolutely Does state that By Definition, no additional adhesive is required in such a fitment.

https://en.wikipedia...nterference_fit

 

I think you misread both my post and the definition of "interference fit" that you supplied, and that you don't understand the difference between a general definition and a specific use of a principle. A manufacturer of an assembled item is not prevented by some sort of semantic law from specifying that two parts that are connected with a friction-fit joint are also to be cemented.

 

--Daniel

Edited February 27, 2015 by kirchh

[kirchh]

(Though my Main questions still remain unanswered...)

 

No, your main question was answered. Here it is:

 

"I would actually like to See Exactly what 'these manuals' say use the shellac for. Is it increasing a loose sections diameter as we should do or Glueing a section in, which let me be clear, I don't think the factories did themselves."

 

It is clear from the numerous references to breaking shellac seals and to applying shellac during reassembly that you were simply mistaken, and that factories cemented sections in, and this was not a procedure used just for holding in loose sections.

 

 

Yeah, and those same manuals probably told you to use Alcohol lamps to open pens up with too.

 

We don't do that now either.

 

I've never seen a manufacturer's repair manual direct the use of an alcohol lamp for opening up celluloid pens. Where'd you get that from?

 

--Daniel

Edited February 27, 2015 by kirchh

[OcalaFlGuy]

I really enjoy trying to learn new things here, I have and will continue to do so.

 

However, Daniel, your incessant combative tone (my interpretation) on the vast majority of your posts simply make learning from you

too uncomfortable.

 

Nevermind.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[kirchh]

I really enjoy trying to learn new things here, I have and will continue to do so.

 

However, Daniel, your incessant combative tone (my interpretation) on the vast majority of your posts simply make learning from you

too uncomfortable.

 

Nevermind.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

Well, as long as there's no lingering claim that penmakers' repair manuals directed the use of alcohol lamps for opening celluloid pens, I'm happy; we don't need that myth circulating.

 

--Daniel

[Ron Z]

Daniel is right. I have a fair number of repair manuals, and they never suggested using an alcohol lamp to loosen a section. To heat a feed, yes, but never to heat barrel. Frank Dubiel suggested it, and that is one of the many things (and a biggie)about which I disagree with with him. My one experience on my own pen (as an experienced pen mechanic) cured me forever. I'd love to see a silver stake driven through that idea.