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Problem With Up Strokes With New Pilot Vp


Oldtimer

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Sample writing with VP No. 2 after using brass sheet and inking with Noodler's Black. It;s a lot better but not perfect.

 

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/WRITING%20SAMPLES/pilotVPNo2-1_zps34472c14.jpg

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/WRITING%20SAMPLES/pilotVPNo2-1_zps34472c14.jpg

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Oldtimer - that most recent writing sample looks much better than with your last pen. Perhaps you just need to find the right ink (and potentially paper). I have provided a sample with my VP below. Once again, I bought my VP new from Richard Binder, who tunes all pens before he ships them out, so my situation may not be comparable to yours... but just wanted to provide you some other samples to look at:

 

Edited to add: paper is HP Laserjet 24lb, 98 brightness.

 

http://i.imgur.com/K0qfbsX.jpg

Edited by sh0ebox

1959 Pelikan 400NN Flexible "F" | Pilot VP Matte Black, Binderized "EF" | TWSBI 580 with 0.6mm Pendleton Point Butter Line Stub | Waterman 0952 1/2v | Lamy Safari Charcoal "EF" and 1.1mm | Noodler's Konrad Fleur de Lis Blue Tortoise | Pilot Parallel 3.8mm

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Brass shims are actually not the best things for increasing flow. However, I do use thicker ones sometimes for very small nibs like those on VPs, just because it's so hard to grasp the tines with thumb and forefinger. What thickness did you use?

 

Also, although I do like and recommend the Iroshizuku inks, IMO modern pens should be able to write well with just about any ink, if they're set up properly.

 

I don't understand your reluctance to pay a small amount of money for a nib expert to tune your nib. Fountain pens are supposed to be enjoyable to use, so why not get the best experience you can? It seems to me that the VP, as set up by Pilot, does not perfectly match your pen hold. So if you want to use one, I'd strongly recommend getting it tuned to your liking.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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QUOTE" "I don't understand your reluctance to pay a small amount of money for a nib expert to tune your nib. Fountain pens are supposed to be enjoyable to use, so why not get the best experience you can? It seems to me that the VP, as set up by Pilot, does not perfectly match your pen hold. So if you want to use one, I'd strongly recommend getting it tuned to your liking."

 

Because it is supposed to work perfectly well when you buy it new. That is what a new product is supposed to do. Do they advertise that you have to wiggle and optimize its writing when you buy it? It's amoral to sell something and expect you to spend additional money to make it work. Only hand downs can be expected to need that. Do you keep a new washing machine if it doesn't work when taken out from Sears or do you return it? Iwoudl feel robbed if I did. And it's not the money, i would prefer to retire it or trash it if I cannot use it.

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Oldtimer - that most recent writing sample looks much better than with your last pen. Perhaps you just need to find the right ink (and potentially paper). I have provided a sample with my VP below. Once again, I bought my VP new from Richard Binder, who tunes all pens before he ships them out, so my situation may not be comparable to yours... but just wanted to provide you some other samples to look at:

 

Edited to add: paper is HP Laserjet 24lb, 98 brightness.

 

http://i.imgur.com/K0qfbsX.jpg

 

 

Great example of a good writer. Did he do it for free? I think the brass sheet worked his magic a bit. Goulet sent me two thickness sheets. I used the finer one to between the tines and the thicker just a bit. It's getting there now, except for the circles. Try to do concentric circles without lifting the nib. I know it will work for you, it looks like the pen works fine, as it should.

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Yes, Richard Binder tunes all pens he sells (or used to sell; he is getting out of "the business" and thus is no longer selling new pens) for no additional charge. If I'm not mistaken, nibs.com also does the same with purchase of their pens.

 

I will try the concentric circles... my guess is it will work fine as you said, but I will scan and upload if I find otherwise.

1959 Pelikan 400NN Flexible "F" | Pilot VP Matte Black, Binderized "EF" | TWSBI 580 with 0.6mm Pendleton Point Butter Line Stub | Waterman 0952 1/2v | Lamy Safari Charcoal "EF" and 1.1mm | Noodler's Konrad Fleur de Lis Blue Tortoise | Pilot Parallel 3.8mm

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QUOTE" "I don't understand your reluctance to pay a small amount of money for a nib expert to tune your nib. Fountain pens are supposed to be enjoyable to use, so why not get the best experience you can? It seems to me that the VP, as set up by Pilot, does not perfectly match your pen hold. So if you want to use one, I'd strongly recommend getting it tuned to your liking."

 

Because it is supposed to work perfectly well when you buy it new. That is what a new product is supposed to do. Do they advertise that you have to wiggle and optimize its writing when you buy it? It's amoral to sell something and expect you to spend additional money to make it work. Only hand downs can be expected to need that. Do you keep a new washing machine if it doesn't work when taken out from Sears or do you return it? Iwoudl feel robbed if I did. And it's not the money, i would prefer to retire it or trash it if I cannot use it.

 

I think that your pen hold is highly atypical, and probably it's part of why this pen doesn't work well for you. This may not be Pilot's fault, just that you're not the typical customer. That's why I suggest getting it set up just for your style of holding the pen. As I've said before, most likely you're rotating the pen a little bit out of the sweet spot.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had to adjust nibs to my satisfaction. It's a skill worth learning for any FP enthusiast.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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I think that your pen hold is highly atypical, and probably it's part of why this pen doesn't work well for you. This may not be Pilot's fault, just that you're not the typical customer. That's why I suggest getting it set up just for your style of holding the pen. As I've said before, most likely you're rotating the pen a little bit out of the sweet spot.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had to adjust nibs to my satisfaction. It's a skill worth learning for any FP enthusiast.

This is just like what I was saying. I completely agree. My medium VP is very sensitive to the way I'm holding it. The way that I have to grip the clip throws the nib out of the sweet spot. I have to adjust my grip to make the pen write the way it should.

http://i.imgur.com/JkyEiJW.png

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I have never thought of the way I hold the pen when having issues with Pilot, it could be possible, but my Prera fine is great in this regard, better than my Safari which is also good. Definately the "incompatible" inks made the sweet spot smaller.

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benay148

 

My hold is not atypical, it is the typical triangle position at the section, 45 degrees of inclination. I don't have aproblem with any other pen, just this one....So....

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https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/284761-targa-fine-nib-skips/?p=3275792

 

 

See Skipping Targa Problem

 

Possible issues could be what is referred to as baby bottom, where by the inner slit was smoothed down in order to make the pen smoother, but at the same time this lets less ink make contact with the paper and can cause skipping

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/drawbaby.jpg

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benay148

 

My hold is not atypical, it is the typical triangle position at the section, 45 degrees of inclination. I don't have aproblem with any other pen, just this one....So....

 

In another thread you posted a picture that shows your pen hold being atypical. It's not the average 45-degree angle that's a problem, it's possibly the way you swing the pen as you write, based on the fact that you hold the pen fairly far back.

 

The VP section is very different from that on typical pens, so your finding that you only have difficulty with the VP may simply reflect that its design doesn't suit you. What I wrote earlier about rotating the pen outside the sweet spot is my best guess about your problem. I don't think it's baby-bottom, because you have approximately the same problem with two different VPs, and baby-bottom is more likely to happen with nibs on the broad end of the spectrum. I have a number of medium Pilot nibs (two of which are VPs) and none of them have BB. Plus, your circle drawings show that you only see skipping on one side of the circle. That's evidence that you are indeed rotating the pen outside the sweet spot.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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benay148

 

My hold is not atypical, it is the typical triangle position at the section, 45 degrees of inclination. I don't have aproblem with any other pen, just this one....So....

 

I also don't have a problem with any other pen. It isn't necessarily your hold, its that the way the clip makes you grasp the section can cause the nib to rotate out of the sweet spot.

http://i.imgur.com/JkyEiJW.png

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as I draw the concentric circles, I move my hand and arm, not the pen... I don't recall posting my hand with a pen...

Edited by Oldtimer
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Sample writing with VP No. 2 after using brass sheet and inking with Noodler's Black. It;s a lot better but not perfect.

 

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/WRITING%20SAMPLES/pilotVPNo2-1_zps34472c14.jpg

 

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/anangeli/PENS/WRITING%20SAMPLES/pilotVPNo2-1_zps34472c14.jpg

 

Oldtimer, to my eyes, your samples are much better than the original. Also for my tastes, I think this is acceptable performance.

 

Having said that, my comment is just directed toward you pointing out the faded line on the upstroke. I feel that this may just be a result of your writing style. If you haven't noticed, most peoples' handwriting generally have a lighter hand or pressure on the upstrokes, and conversely, a heavier hand or pressure on the downstrokes. It's only natural in the sense that the point of the nib is moving away from the paper slightly on the upstrokes and moving into the paper a little on the downstrokes. Just to give some background, pointed nib calligraphy requires one to consciously control those strokes in order to obtain hairlines (typically upstroke) and the thicker or shaded lines (typically downstroke).

 

In your sample, this phenomenon is prevalent on the initial stroke and less so in the same continuous line. That is because the tip may be too close together for your tastes as you and others have noted. Increasing that gap a little should take care of that.

 

I wish you well with the VP. Mine have not disappointed me. The pen model, regular VP, Decimo, or Fermo, do not matter because they all use the same nib units. They are great for taking notes, and if one does not mind the forced grip due to the clip, they are also good for extended writing sessions.

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Goulet sent me two thickness sheets.

 

Why not just order a VP from Goulet who will make sure the nib writes great before shipping it out, if requested? Both VP nibs I've got from Goulet have been wet and smooth Fine nibs.

 

I can't say I'm surprised to see this happen when buying from Amazon, essentially a re-seller with no knowledge of the product, vs Goulet, Anderson, Binder, Mottishaw etc who sell and know their product

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Personally, I'm very surprised to read about Pilot nibs not being perfect out the box. It has been a few years since I last bought a new Pilot but I've had many (at least 25) and every single one has been perfect from new.

 

I wonder if their quality control has dropped recently?

 

If I recall correctly, the only Japanese pen I had that had nib problems was a Sailor Naginiata Togi which was ground by Nagahara-san himself - when Mike Masuyama looked at it he said that Nagahara-san's eyesight is not as good as it once was and it only needed a slight tweak to be perfect.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/4371168844_35ba5fb338.jpg

Danitrio Fellow, Nakaya Nutter, Sailor Sailor (ret), Visconti Venerator, Montegrappa Molester (in training), ConwayStewart Champion & Diplomat #77

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  • 4 weeks later...

Oldtimer:

I tried what you did in that I inked up this pen straight out of the box. I used a rather non-friendly ink for this pen-- I can see what you were experiencing. I wrote the following ink sample at 3 different angles (45, 40-35, 90). Sample was produced with a Pilot Capless Decimo, which is a slimmer version of the Pilot Vanishing Point (nibs are identical). I used a heavily saturated ink (Noodler's Black Swan in Australian Rose), but will thoroughly flush it & refill with a more "watery" ink at a later date:



fpn_1426705540__pilot_decimo_-_writing_s


45 Degree Angle: Inconsistent ink flow specific to a direction/side. -_-

40-30 Degree Angle: Consistent, heavier ink flow. Hit that sweet spot! :thumbup:

90 Degree Angle: VERY inconsistent ink flow specific to a much larger area of direction/side (45 degree angle X2). I included this angle since it's the angle I write at when moving around the office or standing (which is often). :wallbash:

The nib is wonderful and very smooth, but I have to remind myself (at work) to write at a much lower angle than I'm personally use to. At this point, I suspect a watery ink will help expand the "sweet" spot for this pen, but if one wants more flexibility with writing angles, perhaps a nib alteration (by a professional) is one's best bet.

Edited by haruka337

Ink, a drug.

― Vladimir Nabokov, Bend Sinister

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