The Vanishing Point Clip location poll

[kenny]

You say that "it's directed at people who don't own a VP," and that's probably true, but it doesn't say so in the poll.

The topic title clearly states: 'I don't own a VP because...'

 

And I don't mean to be hostile/starting a fight either. But I still strongly disagree with your interpretation of a "no" response. The fact that posters who OWN VPs have answered "no" supports my contention in how it can be interpreted.

 

And, as I stated, the interpretation of the question will affect the usefulness of the poll results.

 

In fact, although you and I have interpreted the intent of question to be aimed at non-VP owners, from a purely Logic/Rhetoric standpoint, VP owners SHOULD answer "no". The question is in a format, "are you a member of x specific group". (In this case, x = non-VP owners who did not buy because of the clip.) ALL non-group members would therefore answer "no."

 

Try another similary-worded poll: "I am a Republican because I am favor of invading Iraq". a)yes b)no

From a classical logical standpoint, both Republicans who joined for tax cuts and Democrats would answer "no".

 

 

 

[StickMan]

I won't vote because I have one too.

 

That being said, I haven't found the clip to be a bother at all.

 

The thing that bothers me the most about most FP's is the thread for the cap, which is a problem the VP doesn't suffer from.

[Titivillus]

And I don't mean to be hostile/starting a fight either. But I still strongly disagree with your interpretation of a "no" response. The fact that posters who OWN VPs have answered "no" supports my contention in how it can be interpreted.

 

I guess the perfect way that this poll should have been written would be.

 

Have you ever tried writing with a vanishing point pen and did not like the position of the clip so you flung it violently away from you sticking it in a ceiling tile and swore never to pick one up again or you have purchased a vanishing point pen and over time found that the location of the clip caused such irritation of your grip that again you visualized flinging the pen far away from you but instead sold it to purchase a pen that you prefer or you own a VP and find that the clip location is not to your liking such that the pen has been used sparingly and you continue to rue the day that you purchased it but don't feel the need to sell it right now because you saw how the price of these pens went up then they changed the style so you keep it tucked away only to sell for a profit.

 

 

best,

 

 

Kurt

 

[MYU]

There should have been a "N/A" choice as well -- meaning, "I own a VP and the clip does NOT bother me." There might be some who own one where it does bother them, but they either put up with it or don't use it (though still possess it). Either that, or an explicit statement saying "If you own a VP, don't vote. This is for prospective buyers only." Part of the problem is that the subtitle is not really prominent. And it looks like there might have been a lot of people not reading the post thoroughly and voted "NO", meaning that the clip didn't stop them from buying it. Guilty as charged.

 

Kurt, you sound really annoyed... it's just a poll.

 

EDIT: I have to admit that when I came back to the thread, I looked at the subtitle and yes it clearly says "I don't own a VP because..." The trouble is that the thread title is very prominent and because it isn't specific about ownership, it's easy to get the mind going on participating and overlook the subtitle. It also depends on the state of mind. If you're tired after reading a bunch of threads, it's easy to get lazy and miss the subtitle, jumping right for the poll.

Edited March 31, 2008 by MYU

[jmkeuning]

You say that "it's directed at people who don't own a VP," and that's probably true, but it doesn't say so in the poll.

The topic title clearly states: 'I don't own a VP because...'

 

Col - just because the title says what it says does not mean that it is directed at people who do not own the pen. It seems to me that it is directed at all who have eyes to read and a mouse button to respond.

 

I own a VP and I responded no. I responded no because "I don't own a VP because of the Clip location" is a false statement as applied to me.

 

 

[edbollix]

So complicated... I LOVE my old black Namiki and the clip is fine for my writing style. I voted no. I'd post a picture if I had one. The old style really appeals to me.

[Tony the Tiger]

actually, I like the clip location

[penaching]

I like the clip location too. I use this design of pen daily and it feels natural and dare I say it ergonomic.

 

... So I voted No.

 

I am lucky enough to have a bunch of them, VP's/Capless and Decimo's

but don't like the design and feel ( Hold/grasp) of the Fermo ( Go figure ! )

[griffin2020]

I do not not own a VP, and the reason is not because of the clip. I am actually considering picking one up.

 

I tested one out at my B&M store the other day. I am lefthanded, and the clip forces me to hold the nib in the proper position (a bit like the Lamy Safari/Al-Star/Vista).

 

 

[penhound]

I own eight VP's and am awaiting the arrival of a Decimo from Tokyo. The clip position does not bother me. I actually believe it helps me to hold the pen in the correct position for writing. I started with VP's in the mid 90's with the model of that time. When the design and size changed to the larger rounded barrel I was disappointed with it, but it did not prevent me from buying the carbonese, the 2003 Limited Mandarin yellow, and more recently a red and gold accent model. I have also acquired the silver Fermo and am now awaiting its delivery from Ujuku.

 

I would think that people who have a poor or improper writing style and WANT to work on correcting it by learning the correct way to hold a fountain pen would WANT to buy a VP to help them out. The clip forces one to hold the pen in the proper manner so as not to be creating a conflict with the pens use.

 

I voted NO in the poll.

 

Happy Day!

[KingJoe]

I would think that people who have a poor or improper writing style and WANT to work on correcting it by learning the correct way to hold a fountain pen would WANT to buy a VP to help them out. The clip forces one to hold the pen in the proper manner so as not to be creating a conflict with the pens use.

 

I can see that as being true. Unfortunately, I DO have a proper writing grip, but the clip does still irritate me. Fat fingers and all... I sold my VP because of the clip. My problem is I'll end up with another VP at some point hoping that magically it won't bother me, it will still bother me (of course), so I'll sell it, and the process will start again. It's amazing that I know myself so well, and yet it will still happen. It's just such a darned convenient pen!

[Titivillus]

I would think that people who have a poor or improper writing style and WANT to work on correcting it by learning the correct way to hold a fountain pen would WANT to buy a VP to help them out.

 

I see we have the large industrial brush out to tar everyone who doesn't have your pen grip has a poor or improper one :roflmho:

 

I think it's a load of fetid dingoes kidneys that the VP gripping requirements produce the only correct and proper one.

 

Your grip is correct to you and my grip is correct to me please don't tell me that I have an improper writing style and the VP will magically correct it.

 

I've been holding pens for a few years ( might be decades ) now and if you check with the people I snail with produce a clear and pleasant looking writing.

 

 

Kurt

 

I have also found that the Decimo's thinner clip profile allows me to use my proper grip comfortably and write legibly

 

[KingJoe]

....and if you check with the people I snail with produce a clear and pleasant looking writing.

 

Indeed. Worthy of envy, even!

[zenshrink]

I have two old models and the clip is in the perfect position. Don't know why they tampered with a good thing.

[mucephei]

I voted "no" meaning the position of the clip does not put me off buying one. At the moment only money prevents me from buying one; I've just sold my P51 to help fund my first Capless. The more I think about it, the more a retractable fountain pen appeals. I generally don't post my pens so there is always the problem of what to do with the cap, and sometimes I'm on the phone and need to jot down a note. Or I drop the cap or I mislay it beneath some paper. Anyway the Capless seems to fit my needs.

[AndyHayes]

I didn't vote as I understood the question to be pointed at non-owners, or perhaps even ex-owners.

 

I have three VPs and I use one every day to write my journal. What makes them even better is a customised nib.

[leprechaun]

I have a 1973 Pilot Capless (Aluminum/Stainless model) and I do not even notice the clip. Maybe the newer ones are different.

[Titivillus]

I have a 1973 Pilot Capless (Aluminum/Stainless model) and I do not even notice the clip. Maybe the newer ones are different.

 

 

I've had both the old and new style as well a decimo. It comes down to grip and preference, I hold my one finger at an angle so it hits the side of the clip rather thanthe barrel. An issue for me but not for many.

 

Kurt

[Doug Add]

This was an interesting read! Some of this discussion reminded me of committee meetings I have had the misfortune to attend, in which so much time was spent discussing the discussion and arguing about the arguments that absolutely nothing was accomplished.

 

I voted yes, because as much as I want to like the VP style pens the clip is intrusive upon my proper grip. I have previously heard and discounted the "if you cannot comfortably use a VP you hold your pen wrong" line. I may not hold a pen the way some purists do, but it is comfortable and my handwriting does not suffer. I have no desire to live in a world where there are only two options--right or wrong--on every issue.

[GeeTee]

I only have my VP for a few days but i like it more than i thought i would like it. The clip is there, i feel it but it doesn't really bother me, actually it helps me to hold the pen in the "right" position. The only thing i don't like about this pen is that i like it so much that i want more VP's in all those nice colours...i would like a yellow one and a black one and a green one and..even an orange one if i can find it and afford it.

Edited June 1, 2008 by GeeTee