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Glitterati/pearl/mica And E415?


Intellidepth
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I did my dry test for 2 or three weeks, but I think 1 week is plenty overkill.

Thanks ScubaSteve. Can't tell you how bad it feels to be mistreating fp's, even if they *were* purchased for this purpose. I admire your patience/resolve doing the ink+glitter dryout previously. It was because of your experiments, pics, and observations that I was prepared to venture this far.

 

One of these was a really nice writer, so I'm keen for it to emerge unscathed.

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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I think pens are tougher than people give them credit for. Have not used xanathan before, but I think they'll be fine - that or I'm just a wrecking ball. :P

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I've just cleaned out the Konrad and Lamy because I want to switch ink colours. (I did a quick writing test first; the xanthan level was too high for the Lamy Vista Fine as it was skippy and was frustrating to write with, however the Konrad was fine after a piston twist refresher.)

 

Konrad with its ebonite feed rinsed off just fine with nib and feed in place :).

 

Lamy Vista with its plastic feed and enclosed feed area had considerable luster still in the system after rinsing with feed in place. Even after removing the Lamy's feed from its housing and rinsing it, it still had luster in the fins :( I think the feed's plastic and luster like each other, or the finer fins don't lend themselves to rinsing as easily. It was only a fine and dispersed layer but a lot more particles (x50-fold) than I ever saw in the Konrad. The clear feed housing rinsed off fine. The luster also was trapped in the Lamy's converter down near where it connects to the pen between a seal and the feed entry point and also above the piston seal. The converter's main clear plastic tubing rinsed clean beautifully.

 

I couldn't be bothered trying to get the small amount of luster out of the Lamy Vista's fins, so just refilled it with an Iroshizuku ink blend (zero additives).

 

edit: before rinsing, the Lamy had significant luster settlement in the base of the feed system - it is stored horizontally. Personally, I'll keep using the Konrad as my glitter pen, but not my Lamys (at least, not frequently).

Edited by Intellidepth

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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The scientific exploration continues in the hunt to find out what xanthan might solidify with. Finally found one thing. Alginate. It's derived from seaweed. Question: is alginate used in commercial fp ink manufacture? (It is used in paper manufacture.)

 

Linked below is a highly technical doc about hydrocolloids. The relevant quote is extracted and presented below, as well as the reference list details of the article it cited (which I haven't read). The link is for the brave of heart with time on their hands and those who are chemist-minded. Or chemists. (Or people keenly interested in gum arabic rather than xanthan.)

 

Hydrogels: Methods of Preparation, Characterisation and Applications

Syed K. H. Gulrez, Saphwan Al-Assaf and Glyn O Phillips

 

"In case of xanthan-alginate mixed system molecular interaction of xanthan and alginate causes the change in matrix structure due to intermolecular hydrogen bonding between them resulting in formation of insoluble hydrogel network (2007)."

 

[note, that 2007 reference is from: Pongjanyakul, T. & Puttipipatkhachorn, S. (2007) Xanthanalginate composite gel beads: Molecular interaction and in vitro characterization. International Journal of Pharmaceutics 331, 61-71]

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/17237.pdf

 

Sodium alginate may be used as a binder in paper substrate and is used in the process of coating paper:

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US5096489.pdf

http://www.snpinc.com/industry-applications/paper-coating/

 

Someone on a different site speculated in December 2014 that alginate may be present in Rhodia paper. So long as it isn't in ink (which I don't have an answer for), that's all that matters as I've been doing the majority of my test-writing on Rhodia with no apparent issues. I speculate that an extra bond with paper could only be helpful.

 

IMO, mixing ink with xanthan in a vial first appears to be an essential precaution.

Edited by Intellidepth

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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Thar' she grows! Polysacchariditis!

3+ week old *concentrate* of tap water and xanthan (Exp 6) has grown two varieties of furry friends. I was not precious nor sterile about its preparation and storage. It was stuck in the fridge a few days after prep loosely covered with plastic wrap which dripped condensation on to it.

 

The concentrate could be frozen into ice cube sized portions in future, then thawed as needed.

 

I will keep an eye out for any growths in ink blends I have sitting here and will report in if there are any issues. This is where I find out whether my inks have any/sufficient anti-bacterial/fungal components.

 

Where can I get phenol from in Australia please? (Edit: phenol looks lethal. Is there anything else I could use?)

 

I've mixed up another batch with distilled water this time and will freeze it.post-119270-0-92917300-1425205465.jpg

Edited by Intellidepth

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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Check the Sam Capote link for the Biocide shoot out.

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).



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Check the Sam Capote link for the Biocide shoot out.

Thank you.

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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Results are in from the kill-the-pen attempts. The pens both live to write another few years :)

 

Blue pen (left-hand page of the two-page shot), converter flush started + scribbling worked after a minute or so. After the initial scribbling, I left it a couple of minutes sitting nib-up while I tested the black pen and it was back to a dry impossible start. Ended up treating the blue pen the same as the black pen.

 

Black pen (right-hand page of the two-page shot), quickly dipped under running tap water + scribbling worked immediately, but very diluted of course. After a page of scribbling I did a converter flush to get the 'real' ink mix back through the nib/feed. Perfect.

 

Recommendation: if dehydrated, quick dip under the tap followed by converter flush. Solved.

 

Interesting observation: the ink level in the converters didn't appear to have dropped since their initial fill.

 

The scribbles.

 

post-119270-0-01320500-1425941070.jpg

 

Nib after dehydration prior to rehydration.

post-119270-0-99337100-1425941104.jpg

 

Feed after dehydration prior to rehydration.

post-119270-0-56795700-1425941140_thumb.jpg

 

Converter before and after converter-flush showing how much ink was required to get nib working again.

post-119270-0-37262800-1425941181_thumb.jpgpost-119270-0-93144100-1425941197_thumb.jpg

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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Just for the record, I did an experiment using ristretto coffee with a dip nib to satiate my, and another FPNer's curiosity. No additives.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/247755-using-coffee-as-ink/?p=3302207

 

What I didn't mention in that thread was that I also tried adding the Xanthan concentrate to a separate portion of the ristretto coffee to increase its viscosity which resulted in a rapid synergistic reaction - such a strong gel that when I tried to rinse it out of a pipette it wouldn't come out easily. I couldn't write with it either, it was like globs. I tossed the vial and pipette. So, folks, *never* try this particular combination ;)

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Great news to report: NO sign of mould (by sight, via torchlight, or smell) in the original ink+xanthan vials mixed over 2 months ago back in post 38. The lustres eventually separated out and settled on the base of the vial, but a vigorous shake for a minute or so and they all went back to suspension again. :) There has been no need for me to use phenol.

 

I'm going to use this type of blend in a vintage sacced pen for temporary use (less than 2 weeks). The original blends used Noodler's Navajo Turquoise, Noodler's Shah's Rose, Noodler's Yellow, and Noodler's Bulletproof Black. (Note: only use black in tiny quantities as part of an ink blend+lustre, as it blocks the lustre.)

 

Link to post 38 with the ratios:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/283167-glitteratipearlmica-and-e415/?p=3262803

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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It's in my very wet Waterman 32 1/2. Great (awesome) for flexing as it changes the viscosity of the ink sufficiently so I get great shading that I normally cannot with this pen, but is too dry to use it unflexed for normal writing.

 

fpn_1428905899__image.jpg

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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  • 3 months later...

Posting for anyone else trying this, a regular blenders works just fine to make the xanthan mix (it cleans up nicely afterward too).

 

As for biocides, phenol isn't any more lethal than bleach or ammonia, it's just a household chemical that needs to be managed. Don't let babies or pets near it, don't leave the bottle open or drink it, open a window or run the oven vent if you have reptiles (and I think cats? but definitely reptiles).

 

I use the mix from Natural Pigments ( http://www.naturalpigments.com/phenol.html, http://www.artistsupplysource.com/product/53775/phenol-8-fl-oz-236-6-ml-spray-bottle-made-in-usa-by-natural-pigments/ looks like the same thing ) and just put a few drops into the bottle of the xanthan mix.

Edited by WirsPlm
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  • 5 weeks later...

Thanks WirsPlm. Glad to hear regular blenders work too.

 

Just reporting in that the mixes with commercially available ink that have had xanthan in them for 6 months are still mould free and haven't required Phenol.

 

Also, both my vintage pens (Waterman and Conklin) have had xanthan mixes dehydrated in them by accident for quite some time and both have cleaned up beautifully with just normal flushing.

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

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  • 7 months later...

I'm going to put this here and one other place. I can't find a ton of information about it but it might be something of interest..

Holbein Iridescent Medium-An artist-grade medium designed to facilitate iridescent (pearlescent) effects when used with water based media.

 

Similar product, different brand- WINSOR AND NEWTON IRIDESCENT MEDIUM

Edited by kmeredith923
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Thar' she grows! Polysacchariditis!

3+ week old *concentrate* of tap water and xanthan (Exp 6) has grown two varieties of furry friends. I was not precious nor sterile about its preparation and storage. It was stuck in the fridge a few days after prep loosely covered with plastic wrap which dripped condensation on to it.

The concentrate could be frozen into ice cube sized portions in future, then thawed as needed.

I will keep an eye out for any growths in ink blends I have sitting here and will report in if there are any issues. This is where I find out whether my inks have any/sufficient anti-bacterial/fungal components.

Where can I get phenol from in Australia please? (Edit: phenol looks lethal. Is there anything else I could use?)

I've mixed up another batch with distilled water this time and will freeze it.attachicon.gifimage.jpg

There are lots of different germicide/fungicide products I've used in soap/bath product making, but my favorite and cheapest is booze! There are a few states in the US, including mine that sell a product called Everclear, which is almost pure alcohol (95%) it's cheap and you don't need much to do the trick. I have soap jelly I made probably 5 years ago that have never molded. Vodka works well also.

Before I found Everclear I used products like these- http://www.chemistrystore.com/Products-Preservatives.html

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