Assistance With Identifying My Antique Dupont Pen.

[mesan]

While at an antiques market in London I came across this pen:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wa4i34axw0nry4b/AACBkDUld8pGJWlX82ku961sa?dl=0

 

Not knowing anything about pens I wasn't sure what to look for but having held, examined, unscrewed, capping and uncapping it several times, the build and finish felt very nice. It cost me about 100$. The man had a lot of old pens unboxed and two Duponts - one in black and my one you see, the navy one. Both boxed and both he claimed were NOS.

 

I became concerned that it might be a fake when I got back and started to research exactly what I had bought and came across several notices on the Internet to be aware of fake Dupont pens.

 

So here I am. I took a few pictures which you'll see at the link above. I took it to an official dealer today and the talked to a lady there extensively whom couldn't really make up her mind if it was fake or not. She seemed to be under the impression that it was a mixture of an Olympio and a Fidelio as the hood is not present. The feel of the inside parts to her seemed to be not of the same standard as the casing. The nib is unfortunately magnetic. She said she could spot fake Mont Blanc's easily and had been working in the pen business for about 10 years.

 

The box is slightly orange as apposed to red, it's quite worn and looks like it has aged. There is an instruction manual, guarantee card and catalog. What I can say for sure is the Japanese (I read Japanese) in the instruction manual has a lot of very severe mistakes in it. The casing of the pen doesn't look like it has paint simply coated on it; it looks like a coating under a layer of transparent material, if that makes sense. In other words, it doesn't look cheaply made. It has a metallic look, a look not easily replicated by paint alone, though it could be just some plastic processed a special way.

 

In researching the serial number I can only find links to information in Arabic or Chinese. The Chinese when translated points to this serial number as a version of the pen that had only 4000 units made if I'm not mistaken. The serial is 6E8C358

 

I had read that the pens held with a ribbon in their boxes were most certainly fakes but at the official dealer today they showed me an Olympio they had and the box was the same as mine except for the colour and that fact that it had the D logo of the front side of it.

 

The pen writes nicely, has a good weight and if I paid 100$ for it and the dealer paid say 50$ for it (if fake) then the maker is pushing this kind of quality for about 20-30$... Is that possible? To go to the extent to make a box look aged and even the smell of it points to it being stored somewhere for some time.

 

Please share your opinions - I've done my best to research it but the only thing that is obviously fake is the nib to me. Could it possibly be the case that the casing is real and the insides are replica?

[Beechwood]

There are a great many fake Duponts around to the point where eBay have issued a guide to spotting a fake pen, however even this isnt 100% guaranteed, I understand what you say when you say that it doesnt feel cheaply made, I have handly some fakes and they feel much better than their value.

 

One common failing is the instruction manual, orange paper on the fakes, another is caps that dont close whith a reassuring click.

 

Dont take this as a criticism but it would be unlikley that any stallholder in a London antiques market would be selling NOS Dupont pens, they are not a commonly sold pen even through the limited number of authorised dealers

 

Enjoy the pens for what they are, but just not a Dupont pen.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Beechwood

[mesan]

There are a great many fake Duponts around to the point where eBay have issued a guide to spotting a fake pen, however even this isnt 100% guaranteed, I understand what you say when you say that it doesnt feel cheaply made, I have handly some fakes and they feel much better than their value.

 

Enjoy the pens for what they are, but just not a Dupont pen

Would I be right to assume your opinion is that this is a replica? I was thrown off a little by the last sentence because I only bought the one. Besides the nib being magnetic, are there any other tell-tale signs that you see which suggest this is not authentic?

[Beechwood]

I would say that it is probably a fake. Have a look at the ebay guide to spotting a fake dupont - although that isnt perfect.

[jar]

It is absolutely a fake,

 

It is based on the ST Dupont Fidelio based on the rind at the nib end of the section, an Olympio based on the semi wrap around nib and the square placement on the clip.

 

A real Fidelio will have the square on a flat/angled section at the point the clip bends down and an open 14K nib.

 

A real Olympio/Orpheo will have a clip like the one shown in your picture and semi wrap around 18K nib but the ring at the end of the section projects out part way over the nib.

 

http://www.fototime.com/7BB6CED239357D9/medium800.jpg

A real Olympio/Orpheo

http://www.fototime.com/D08A081E53452FD/large.jpg

A real Fidelio nib

[vikrmbedi]

actually duplicate pens are being produced at a much cheaper rate, I assume 5 to 10 dollars.

 

have a look at the pens made by jinhao, hero, baoer, kailegu etc they are very well built pens, made out of metal and good quality.

 

I agree with the sales person...even though it has a nib design resembling Fidelio, the end section doesn't resemble a Fidelio.

 

more over the erial no is very light...it should have been darker in the original.

 

the nib seems to be laser etched, rather than stamped (the words would be deeper and smoother). and there is an overall lack of finishing on the nib.

[mesan]

It is absolutely a fake,

 

 

Thank you, Jar.

 

I am reluctantly coming to the realisation that it is indeed a replica. I spent a day or so researching this and had noticed the same thing as you have pointed out and the sales lady had also. However, during research I came across listings that seemed to point to the idea that this model did not always have the fan part at the nib or a hybrid of the Fedelio and Olympio may exist.

 

If you scroll down to the listings for Olymipio's on this site that claims to have 70 years experience selling pens, you'll see pens that look like a Fedelio but are listed as Olympio's, hence my confusion being quite ignorant to the Dupont brand in general.

 

http://www.penshop.com.au/st_dupont.html

 

Also I should note here that I have noticed that the 'S' in 'S.T. Dupont' on the barrel has a section on it missing, which at first I thought was a sure sign of poor workmanship but I found a listing on ebay with the similar missing section and it seems to be a pen that is not among those commonly faked. We can note the missing section from the 'S' in the fifth picture:

 

http://bit.ly/1vp9sx0

 

Still, after reading the ebay guide on spotting fakes, it seems mine may well be one. It is a shame. Just glad I didn't pay more than I did. It writes nice so I'll use or for something - mostly as a reminder to not buy pens from anywhere else than authorised dealers!

[jar]

I wish that it was not a fake but it is; no question at all there. I base that on a fairly extensive collection of ST Dupont pens and over 40 years experience with ST Dupont pens and lighters.

 

The pen listed in tour link is the newer small size Olympio/Orpheo that replaced the Fidelio.

[mesan]

I wish that it was not a fake but it is; no question at all there. I base that on a fairly extensive collection of ST Dupont pens and over 40 years experience with ST Dupont pens and lighters.

 

The pen listed in tour link is the newer small size Olympio/Orpheo that replaced the Fidelio.

Thanks Jar. That clears up any confusion I had. I have to say it amazes me how accurately luxury items can be reproduced at a fraction of the cost. I know the materials are different but still.

 

For everyones future reference, what could be added to the guide for spotting fake Olympio's is that the Japanese in the instruction manual is error ridden. Any person who can read it will tell you so within the first few seconds.

 

Again, for everyone's reference I bought my pen from Spitalfields market in London on a Thursday which is antiques day. The stall has many lose pens which look quite worthless, then there was two boxed NOS Olympio's. It's either a very well thought out intended plan or the seller didn't know what he bought.

[jar]

Thanks Jar. That clears up any confusion I had. I have to say it amazes me how accurately luxury items can be reproduced at a fraction of the cost. I know the materials are different but still.

 

For everyones future reference, what could be added to the guide for spotting fake Olympio's is that the Japanese in the instruction manual is error ridden. Any person who can read it will tell you so within the first few seconds.

 

Again, for everyone's reference I bought my pen from Spitalfields market in London on a Thursday which is antiques day. The stall has many lose pens which look quite worthless, then there was two boxed NOS Olympio's. It's either a very well thought out intended plan or the seller didn't know what he bought.

 

As with most things, the best protection is knowledge of details. That's hard to come by, difficult and takes time. In the case of ST Dupont often it is down to the care and attention spent on the parts that don't show, underside of nibs, threads. polished interior surfaces.

 

With modern laser scanning and computer driven machining it is to be expected that duplicating appearances gets easier and easier; cheaper and cheaper. But even those of us with a fair knowledge of a subject can get fooled.