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Vintage Sheaffer Or Japanese Pen


ukini
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I am getting into fountain pens. Thus far I tried Lamy Safari, several Chinese Heros and a Pilot 78G + Pilot parallels.

 

All was in search of extra fine pen.

 

Just to be sure on what to expect, I'll probably order a Pilot Penmanship in extra fine.

 

I'd like to ask your advice on the topic pens, even if subjective opinions.

 

I want to get one more or less expensive pen, in 50-100$ range. (I understand this might be a little dumb.) And also, I might be comparing apples to oranges. But anyway, which pen should I choose, on one side some vintage Sheaffer (Triumph, Imperial, Targa), and a nice pen from one of the Japanese big three (Platinum 3776, Sailor 1911 comes to mind)?

 

I included Japanese models because I need real extra fine. That should be enough, not an ultra extra fine. I am not using my EF Safari because it felt a little thick....

 

So, please share you advice. I think either Sheaffer or Japanese models will satisfy my EF need. But I need some personal sensual input from you. I can't unfortunately hold or try any of these pens. Returning is also kinda a problem. So I'm looking for something substantial, a little more heavier than Pilot 78G (it is my favourite), for something I can carry everyday.

 

I don't know if I could explain my request. But I'm looking for you advice, even other manufacturers or models.

 

Thank you!

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I am getting into fountain pens. Thus far I tried Lamy Safari, several Chinese Heros and a Pilot 78G + Pilot parallels.

 

All was in search of extra fine pen.

 

Just to be sure on what to expect, I'll probably order a Pilot Penmanship in extra fine.

 

I'd like to ask your advice on the topic pens, even if subjective opinions.

 

I want to get one more or less expensive pen, in 50-100$ range. (I understand this might be a little dumb.) And also, I might be comparing apples to oranges. But anyway, which pen should I choose, on one side some vintage Sheaffer (Triumph, Imperial, Targa), and a nice pen from one of the Japanese big three (Platinum 3776, Sailor 1911 comes to mind)?

 

I included Japanese models because I need real extra fine. That should be enough, not an ultra extra fine. I am not using my EF Safari because it felt a little thick....

 

So, please share you advice. I think either Sheaffer or Japanese models will satisfy my EF need. But I need some personal sensual input from you. I can't unfortunately hold or try any of these pens. Returning is also kinda a problem. So I'm looking for something substantial, a little more heavier than Pilot 78G (it is my favourite), for something I can carry everyday.

 

I don't know if I could explain my request. But I'm looking for you advice, even other manufacturers or models.

 

Thank you!

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I don't know if the 2,000 point bonus would apply to you as a new user but the Bunkidou shop on Rakuten has a few different Century 3776 listed for under $100 (and shipping for it's weight is a flat 1,200 yen [roughly $11-12] which takes about 3-4 days depending on where you're at).

 

For example this Burgundy (Bourgogne) Century 3776 can be had with an extra-fine (0.18mm), fine (0.28mm), In Character (ie: Medium, 0.49mm) are available on it, and Platinum makes probably some of the finer nibs without getting too expensive with some of Sailor's nibs.

 

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/bunkidou-shop/item/pnb-10000-71/

 

They also have the standard black one with a Soft Fine and "Super Fine" (2x EF)for the same price as above.

 

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/bunkidou-shop/item/pnb-10000/

 

Roughly it's

7,905 Yen

+ 632 JPY Consumption Tax

+ 1,200 JPY Shipping

= 9,737 .... roughly $94 or so shipped.

 

So that's one option if you want to try for their fine or thinner nibs or go the whole way down with their UEF (aka Super Fine).

 

I Had a black one with a soft fine, it's not much heavier than a 78G, it's a couple of grams heavier than a Lamy Safari (17g), overall it's 20g with the cap and body evenly matched in weight (10g each).

 

Also with it's slip-n-seal cap they estimate the cap can keep the ink from drying out for up to 2 years.

 

So other than getting a Sailor with a Naginata Sai-bi Togi nib for a premium price, the 3776 ordered from Japan may be the way to go.

 

also I have the Platinum PTL-5000 (14K EF) [currently uninked, might sell it], Century 3776 (Soft Fine) [no longer have it, I traded it off, and got a new 3776 on order with a medium], and Lamy Safari (Fine... though dry running so maybe finer than yours, it's finer than the brand new EF I have) on this page.

 

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/inked/rhodia_aug_25_2014.jpg

 

Edit: :P Getting a Penmanship may be a good way to go first, seems when they get down to Japanese Fine (ie: especially Platinum) you get a bit of scratch/feedback.

 

By the way, what Sheaffers are you looking at for EF? Since aren't they normally still closer to western, and usually to find something like an 'accountant' nib isn't as common or cheap.

Edited by KBeezie
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Thanks for information, Kbeezie!

 

I was looking at some vintage Sheaffers, I thought they should run real fine or extra fine, aren't they?

 

Something like http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/sheaffer/balance...

 

Actually, I ordered one NOS EF Sheaffer from peytonstreetpens, but it got lost in the mail. But the store was great, they reimbursed the money -- insurance helped.

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If you're looking at older Sheaffers (many will dispute Targa as deserving "vintage" ;) ), there's little to choose. The fines of Sheaffer's past are pretty fine, although it might be well if you could convince a seller to scribble on one of these sheets to be sure it's as fine as you want.

Ravensmarch Pens & Books
It's mainly pens, just now....

Oh, good heavens. He's got a blog now, too.

 

fpn_1465330536__hwabutton.jpg

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If you're looking at older Sheaffers (many will dispute Targa as deserving "vintage" ;) ), there's little to choose. The fines of Sheaffer's past are pretty fine, although it might be well if you could convince a seller to scribble on one of these sheets to be sure it's as fine as you want.

 

I haven't seen a vintage (pre-70s) Sheaffer online yet that was finer or as fine as the feathertouch accounting nib on my TD Admiral (least not without some insane price tag or having been done as a custom grind). I just get paranoid about damaging the TD itself, even though the person who sold it to me assures me they're strong workhorses (it does feel like a heavier plastic but I'd be heartbroken if I killed that evergreen TD, or dropped that nib).

 

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/sheaffer_trio/uncapped.jpg

 

That Sheaffer Craftsman in Persian blue above that I haven't used in quite a while has a #33 14K nib that writes like an extra-fine (just hair above the FT accounting nib), but it's pretty scratchy/rough to me, I haven't attempted to do any kind of nib smoothing with it yet, just mainly alignment. Scratchy/Rough + Wet isn't the greatest combination to me lol (almost as wet as the M2 on my snorkel).

Edited by KBeezie
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Vintage EF are pretty fine. My sheaffer snorkel EF is approaching needlepoint.

My parker 51 as well.

Edited by superglueshoe
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I find my fine Pilot 78G is a good everyday nib. Only sometimes I get annoyed when I really needed something even finer -- for writing on drawings and such.

 

But what about extra fines, ultra EF and accountant's nibs -- do you think they are appropriate for regular _everyday_ note taking? Or are they too thin?

 

Thanks again!

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Vintages are a little harder to grade, but tend to be a little finer than today. Talk to Teri at Peyton Street and tell her what you need and see if she has anything to help you.

 

I will also tell you not to stay away from the conical Triumph nibs - they are very nice.

--

Lou Erickson - Handwritten Blog Posts

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Some Sheaffer pens are Japanese made in the '70's. I had one. Very narrow nib. Sold it.

Many of the early '50's Sheaffers were nibs approaching now Japanese.

Targa is of course modern.

 

Do not buy a Sailor, it is the Fat Japanese nib....Pilot only.....no reason to waste money on a Sheaffer either. Could be too fat at a true F or EF of that era, when you want skinny Japanese as is.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

RIP...200's once great nib, now a double ball.:crybaby::wallbash:

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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The problem with vintage pens is, unless you are buying from a person that KNOWS his pens, it is likely that the seller has no idea of the nib size. Especially if it is not stamped on the nib where he can read it. So you will be rolling a dice, and who knows what you will get.

 

Another alternative, but it isn't a heavy pen, is an Esterbrook J, with a XF or an accountants nib. The good thing about the Esterbrook is you can easily unscrew the nib and replace it. The bad thing is the pen will be at least 50 years old, and the ink sack will need to be replaced. Unless I know the seller, I don't trust that the ink sack has been replaced, and I replace it myself to be sure I have a new ink sack.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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I haven't seen a vintage (pre-70s) Sheaffer online yet that was finer or as fine as the feathertouch accounting nib on my TD Admiral (least not without some insane price tag or having been done as a custom grind). I just get paranoid about damaging the TD itself, even though the person who sold it to me assures me they're strong workhorses (it does feel like a heavier plastic but I'd be heartbroken if I killed that evergreen TD, or dropped that nib).

 

{magnificent photo}

 

That Sheaffer Craftsman in Persian blue above that I haven't used in quite a while has a #33 14K nib that writes like an extra-fine (just hair above the FT accounting nib), but it's pretty scratchy/rough to me, I haven't attempted to do any kind of nib smoothing with it yet, just mainly alignment. Scratchy/Rough + Wet isn't the greatest combination to me lol (almost as wet as the M2 on my snorkel).

 

I dropped a fat TD Valiant that colour just as I got the tube out to fill it; the torque from the tube cracked the barrel, and it was indeed a disheartening event (happy ending; I'm passably good at solvent welding, and it wasn't a BIG crack).

 

I should probably have been a little more tentative in my earlier statement, but at least as of '75 the Sheaffer sizing seems to have been a little more inclined to what we now think of as Japanese. They were also pretty darned good at it, in some instances-- I've got a Sentinel from just before the switch to TD filling with a point that is cream-smooth despite putting down a 0.1 mm line... if it's even that thick.

Edited by Ernst Bitterman

Ravensmarch Pens & Books
It's mainly pens, just now....

Oh, good heavens. He's got a blog now, too.

 

fpn_1465330536__hwabutton.jpg

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The answer is yes.

 

But out of Japanese pens, you don't have to limit yourself to new ones. And out of Sheaffer, you don't have to limit yourself to Triumph and inlaid nibs. Hm, for size and weight, I don't think a Pilot "penmanship" pen is going to do it for you. Sheaffer Targa is probably a good idea for size and weight. Pens with Triumph nibs only got so big in plastic, and the metal Snorkels aren't fat, and probably not heavy. PFM probably goes outside your budget. Legacy model may be heavy, but outside budget.

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I dropped a fat TD Valiant that colour just as I got the tube out to fill it; the torque from the tube cracked the barrel, and it was indeed a disheartening event (happy ending; I'm passably good at solvent welding, and it wasn't a BIG crack).

 

I should probably have been a little more tentative in my earlier statement, but at least as of '75 the Sheaffer sizing seems to have been a little more inclined to what we now think of as Japanese. They were also pretty darned good at it, in some instances-- I've got a Sentinel from just before the switch to TD filling with a point that is cream-smooth despite putting down a 0.1 mm line... if it's even that thick.

 

 

Ouch, and also good to know about '75 onward.

 

In regards to XXF etc for every day usage. The accountant nib on my TD could be used for everyday, but anything finer than that or whatever the heck is on my Montblanc 225, would likely would be so thin that on absorbent paper everyday type of paper it would just show up faded (and if it were wetter for everyday paper, it would no longer be that so fine a line).

 

Well here's an older scan on Mead 5-star lined paper... maybe not that huge a difference, if anything may appear thicker if the nib is wet enough. http://static.karlblessing.com/paper/mead5star/07272014_front.jpg

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I find my fine Pilot 78G is a good everyday nib. Only sometimes I get annoyed when I really needed something even finer -- for writing on drawings and such.

 

But what about extra fines, ultra EF and accountant's nibs -- do you think they are appropriate for regular _everyday_ note taking? Or are they too thin?

 

Thanks again!

 

NO

An accountants nib, at least the one on my pen, is pretty darn sharp. It will snag on the surface texture of most papers today. Quite unpleasant to write with.

Accounting ledger paper is hard and smooth, so a pointy pen won't snag on it.

The closest you can get to ledger paper is probably the Clairefontain and Rhodia papers.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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