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Yet Another Identification Thread


Ipsum_Dolor

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If anyone could be so kind as to name the model and approximate value of this pen, I would be very thankful.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151363912587?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l4451&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI151363912587.N5.S2.M3014.R2.TR14

I didn't think the model name was 'Grey Laque', but I could be very wrong.

Thank you.

Edited by Ipsum_Dolor

Pens: Pilot Vanishing Point, Pelikan m150, Pilot Prera, Pilot Metropolitan, Parker Arrow, Countless amount of dip nibs. |
Ink: Waterman Black or O.S. Arsenic for note taking, Iroshizuku Fuyu Gaki & Diamine Oxblood or Ancient Copper for correspondence. Although the last two are nearly always subject to change.
Paper: Rhodia / Clairfontaine. Outstanding quality, and relatively inexpensive.
I think I've finally satiated my thirst for pens, but never ink!

Absolutely amazing B&M pen store.

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There's a raging arguement about what that model is over in this thread (well... relatively raging-- it's not the Sheaffer forum, after all). I would contend that what you're looking at is a Master, but I've mislaid my documentation.

Ravensmarch Pens & Books
It's mainly pens, just now....

Oh, good heavens. He's got a blog now, too.

 

fpn_1465330536__hwabutton.jpg

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I don't have an answer; I am sure someone will, if not - have you asked the seller?

 

Grey lacque is a reference to the finish, I would assume. Kind of odd, though - the pen in the photo with the box looks solid black to me, while the photo of the close up of the cap looks like it is a mottled brown. Where does the grey come in?? Probably just the way the photos were taken. Also, the clip on the cap looks solid to me; I thought Waterman clips (on their modern pens) had that distinctive split in them, similar to the one on this pen:

 

http://carmenriverapens.com/wp-content/uploads/waterman-expert-fountain-pen-burgundy-2-e1394132225724.jpg

 

But, I am far from an expert. I am sure one will be around shortly to let us know what pen this is. :D

 

The nib sounds lovely, the seller has lots of sales and 100% feedback, so I don't think there is much risk here, but I am curious as to the model as well.

 

Holly

 

Edit -see, Ernst already posted while I was writing my post. I believe he is correct - in my search of Waterman and Grey Laque, several things popped up saying "grey lacque Master" but there were no photos. Here is a brown marbled Master on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Vintage-WATERMAN-MASTER-Fountain-Pen-Laquer-Brown-Marbled-18k-Nib-France-/131150329976:

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDYxMg==/z/P6gAAOxy039TMbGM/$_1.JPG

 

It was one of their inexpensive models, but I don't know what a reasonable cost would be now. Here on FPN, someone was trying to sell a Master for $35 back in 2010 - he even put "rare" in the description, but what happened in 2010 probably doesn't help a whole lot now.

Edited by OakIris
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Dirck, the Super Master was shown with cut-out clip in Forces scans.

To your knowledge, is there also a Master (without the super) Could that be the single bar-clip version?

 

 

Anyway, we can be sure this is the same pen as pictured on cpt Chang's page as the second "Cotelé" (whether that name is right or wrong)

 

 

D.ick

~

KEEP SAFE, WEAR A MASK, KEEP A DISTANCE.

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

~

 

 

 

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Thanks for your help guys. The darn pen seems really fickle - It's resembles both the Master and the Cotelé in different places (That Clip!).

I've contacted the seller to see if he can add some more input on the matter. Whether or not he replies is questionable.

Am I right in assuming the value today is ~$30 - $50? Seems an alright price for a 18kt nib.

EDIT: Another one from this seller, I thought I'd tack it on to this existing thread rather than creating another.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Waterman-8-Sided-Faceted-Chevron-Gold-F-Overlay-14K-Nib-Clean-New-Sac/151366781280?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24192%26meid%3D8733758740012177392%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D10284%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D151363912587&rt=nc

I've looked through a few online catalogs and history pages and I cannot find anything that resembles this model. Is it possible it's fake? The nib looks real enough.

Thanks again.

Edited by Ipsum_Dolor

Pens: Pilot Vanishing Point, Pelikan m150, Pilot Prera, Pilot Metropolitan, Parker Arrow, Countless amount of dip nibs. |
Ink: Waterman Black or O.S. Arsenic for note taking, Iroshizuku Fuyu Gaki & Diamine Oxblood or Ancient Copper for correspondence. Although the last two are nearly always subject to change.
Paper: Rhodia / Clairfontaine. Outstanding quality, and relatively inexpensive.
I think I've finally satiated my thirst for pens, but never ink!

Absolutely amazing B&M pen store.

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Share on other sites

Hi folks:)

I am the seller of the mentioned pens.

The "grey lacque" refers to the color/finish-A grey mottled lacqer. I don't know if that is the proper name of the color,but its a grey mottled lacqer.

I don't know what the model name is-I'm really into older pens more,and received this one in a lot with others.

They value is whatever it sells for:)

 

The second pen mentioned is basically a Continental overlay - most likely Italian - 1920's or 30's. Definitely not a fake.

 

Thanx for looking:)

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Hi folks:)

Oh cool, thanks for replying here. I'll keep my eye on both of those pens :)

Pens: Pilot Vanishing Point, Pelikan m150, Pilot Prera, Pilot Metropolitan, Parker Arrow, Countless amount of dip nibs. |
Ink: Waterman Black or O.S. Arsenic for note taking, Iroshizuku Fuyu Gaki & Diamine Oxblood or Ancient Copper for correspondence. Although the last two are nearly always subject to change.
Paper: Rhodia / Clairfontaine. Outstanding quality, and relatively inexpensive.
I think I've finally satiated my thirst for pens, but never ink!

Absolutely amazing B&M pen store.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi folks:)

I am the seller of the mentioned pens.

The "grey lacque" refers to the color/finish-A grey mottled lacqer. I don't know if that is the proper name of the color,but its a grey mottled lacqer.

I don't know what the model name is-I'm really into older pens more,and received this one in a lot with others.

They value is whatever it sells for:)

 

The second pen mentioned is basically a Continental overlay - most likely Italian - 1920's or 30's. Definitely not a fake.

 

Thanx for looking:)

 

Mystery semi-solved! And to think, if we had just googled your username we would have found you here, crazypencollector, and on other fountain pen forums. Small world! I take it that the papers that you include with the pen give no model identification?

 

Nothing on the Waterman website about the Master or the Cotelé, but they have very little historical data on the site anyway, which is too bad, given the rich history of the brand. I suppose they are all about current sales and their currently in-production writing instruments so an actual "penography" would be too much to expect.

 

Holly

Edited by OakIris
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Also, the clip on the cap looks solid to me; I thought Waterman clips (on their modern pens) had that distinctive split in them, similar to the one on this pen:

 

http://carmenriverapens.com/wp-content/uploads/waterman-expert-fountain-pen-burgundy-2-e1394132225724.jpg

 

 

 

I don't have an exact date for when the split clip became a general habit, but it was sometimes in the 1970's. The C/F clip did that throughout its run, but in the '60s and a bit of the '70s they had clips without cutouts on most models; the early '70s had some pretty massive blocks for clips (the Directeur General springs to mind).

 

I suppose they are all about current sales and their currently in-production writing instruments so an actual "penography" would be too much to expect.

 

 

I will happily join in a collective shaking of fists in the direction of the Newell-Rubbermaid command bunker.

Edited by Ernst Bitterman

Ravensmarch Pens & Books
It's mainly pens, just now....

Oh, good heavens. He's got a blog now, too.

 

fpn_1465330536__hwabutton.jpg

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Thanks for your help guys. The darn pen seems really fickle - It's resembles both the Master and the Cotelé in different places (That Clip!).

 

I've contacted the seller to see if he can add some more input on the matter. Whether or not he replies is questionable.

 

Am I right in assuming the value today is ~$30 - $50? Seems an alright price for a 18kt nib.

 

EDIT: Another one from this seller, I thought I'd tack it on to this existing thread rather than creating another.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Waterman-8-Sided-Faceted-Chevron-Gold-F-Overlay-14K-Nib-Clean-New-Sac/151366781280?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24192%26meid%3D8733758740012177392%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D10284%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D151363912587&rt=nc

 

I've looked through a few online catalogs and history pages and I cannot find anything that resembles this model. Is it possible it's fake? The nib looks real enough.

 

Thanks again.

Apart from the reassurement of the seller:

 

The work on that pen is way too intricate for a fake.

 

 

D.ick

~

KEEP SAFE, WEAR A MASK, KEEP A DISTANCE.

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

~

 

 

 

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Ya,its an old continental. they made them in Italy in many different patterns. Filigree,bi metal,tri metal,ect

Some in France aswell.

The French featured 18K nibs, and the Italians 14K U.S. nibs

You don't see faceted ones alot though.

I'm not sure how they engine turned it , turned before faceting perhaps...

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Normally those old continental overlays were done by local artisans. These were often very intricate filigree work.

 

This one has the Waterman Ideal sign on it, so it is actually an official Waterman production

 

Looks good. I wonder how the bidding will go coming day...

 

D.ick

~

KEEP SAFE, WEAR A MASK, KEEP A DISTANCE.

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

~

 

 

 

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