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Master Poobah
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Does the sentence, "The five boxing wizards jump quickly." have any meaning to you? What if I said, "The quick brown fox jumps over a lazy dog." Well if you've ever made or seen an ink review you're probably familiar with this sentence. What I'd like to talk about is why- why do we use this particular sentence all the time?

 

Some may say it's because it's just what you've always seen so you just picked up on the trend. Others vouch that it's the best sentence because it's a pangram. (a sentence containing all of the letters of the english alphabet at least once) My point is that it may be the most well-known pangram, but it certaintly isn't the best.

 

There's so many more creative/fun pangrams out there that it's a shame no one ever uses them, such as: sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow; pack my box with five dozen liquor jugs; or jinxed wizards pluck ivy from the big quilt. All of which contain close to or fewer letters than the famous quick fox. You could even take it upon yourself to create your own pangrams. Here's an example of one of mine, "Quiz, what fox coveted big picky jackal mooners?"

 

I was currious what you'd all think about it. Would you consider useing other sample sentences? Does this not even concern you? Let me know your thoughts.

 

edit: spelling error

Edited by Master Poobah
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What I'd like to talk about is why- why do we use this particular sentence all the time?

 

It has the air of an adage - something along the lines of audacity outwitting sloth - and it's easier to spell than sphinx or *cough* jackal. :) Both of these would make it a popular teaching example. That's my guess, at any rate.

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- and it's easier to spell than sphinx or *cough* jackal. :)

Haha, somehow I knew I was going to have at least one spelling mistake, but I'd hoped it wouldn't have been quite as embarrassing.

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I use "quick brown fox" because it's the phrase I learned when I took calligraphy back when I was a sophomore in college, which was (cough, cough, um, too many years ago to mention :blush:). I didn't KNOW there were other pangrams until I found my way to FPN around 2-1/2 years ago (or even that they were called pangrams).

On an intellectual level I realize there *are* other ones out there to use. And I have written some of them down in my commonplace book. But they don't stick in my head, so I end up going back to the "tried and true" one. Whether it's the "best" one or not is debatable -- it's the one that the neural pathways have learned.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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I didn't KNOW there were other pangrams until I found my way to FPN around 2-1/2 years ago (or even that they were called pangrams).

Neither did I until about a year ago when my teacher was discussing Ella Minnow Pea, the novel about a society that practically worships the "creator" of the quick brown fox phrase.

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To be honest, I don't see that the use of a pangram is an absolute necessity. If you find that the ink flows and looks wonderful, or just the opposite, when you use the ink to write the letter "A" or "Z", wouldn't any other letter in the alphabet look just as nice or just as bad? If the ink's lubrication/flow isn't very good, as in that it causes skipping (too dry) or blobs and feathering (too wet,) wouldn't it be likely to show the same characteristics when used to write any other letter? Yes, the more "loopy" letters might be more effective in showcasing the inks good - or bad - qualities, but still....

 

Really, for me, some of the most fun ink reviews to read are those that are entirely hand written with no 'special' pangram being used but, bottom line, I am just very happy that so many folks are able and willing to share their ink reviews with us, so these generous people can use any pangram they wish or none at all, just as they please, as far as I am concerned!

 

Holly

Edited by OakIris
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In part I use "the quick brown fox..." because that's what everyone else uses. That way, when I look at different samples of different inks I see the ink under conditions that most closely resemble the condition of many published reviews. I'm sure there are all sorts of other confounding variables, but using the same phrase can't hurt.

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Does the sentence, "The five boxing wizards jump quickly." have any meaning to you? What if I said, "The quick brown fox jumps over a lazy dog." Well if you've ever made or seen an ink review you're probably familiar with this sentence. What I'd like to talk about is why- why do we use this particular sentence all the time?

 

For me it's just kinda standard. I haven't got the imagination to make up my own

Edited by WateryFlow
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It's used because it uses all the letters of the alphabet only once. It's basically an anagram of ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

Sorry but that's not true, it uses several letters multiple times; e.g. 'o' is used four times. The sentence has 33 letters in total.

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After reading and hearing some explanations why the "brown fox" pangram is used, I left with an impression that the actual reason is that reviewers have difficulties to come up quickly with a phrase they think is suitable for the review.

 

Using any particular pangram invites to pay attention to the penmanship, which, let's be honest, is not, hm, often there. Having, let's say, average handwriting is absolutely okay but, nevertheless, every time when I see "brown fox" I start thinking about calligraphic values of the review. I guess, I've spent too much time looking at fonts, where pangrams are convenient.

Edited by recluse
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It's not a pangram, but I love this one that someone posted here in a different thread:

 

The stupid fox awakened the sleeping dog and was mauled into a bloody goo.

 

My daughter thinks it is funny when I write this. :)

Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized. -- Albert Einstein

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It's not a pangram, but I love this one that someone posted here in a different thread:

 

The stupid fox awakened the sleeping dog and was mauled into a bloody goo.

 

My daughter thinks it is funny when I write this. :)

:lticaptd:

Your daughter isn't the only one. Thanks for making me laugh (and thereby salvaging what so far has been a pretty crummy day for me). Do you know offhand where it originated? Because I'm definitely stealing it....

Of course now I'm wondering how to fit the missing letters back into it (C, J, Q, R, V, and Z -- just in case anyone cares).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

edited for typos

 

ETA: Ah, found the other thread. Now I have to go pester Sasha Royale to find out where *he* got it from.... ;)

Edited by inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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That is the sentence that I was directed to type multiple times when I learned to type in high school. So it sticks. It also makes sense. There are many, many pangrams which while being shorter and including every letter are only shorter and include every letter. They make no sense and nonsense is much harder to remember than something that one can picture in the mind's eye.

To hold a pen is to be at war. - Voltaire
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ETA: Ah, found the other thread. Now I have to go pester Sasha Royale to find out where *he* got it from.... ;)

 

Yay! Glad you were able to find it. I *thought* it might have been Sasha but I wasn't 100% sure, and your Google-Fu is much better than mine. ;)

 

I don't mind the missing letters (z, etc), however my daughter has fun changing the sentence around to make new funny sentences.

Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized. -- Albert Einstein

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Hi,

 

Ah, OK.

 

I like to use a block of text to depict how an ink might appear when covering a full page from pens of various nib widths and wetness.

 

I most often use the same quotation from Moby Dick for inks of each colour group, which is intended to support on-the-level comparison when the same pen+paper combo is used for different inks.

 

While I think there is value in each person using their own test phrase, I rather doubt that having the same test phrase used by all Members would be so useful - certainly not with my handwriting manner of mark making. :rolleyes:

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

N54M ad hoc comparo @ Post № 41 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/255965-noodlers-54-massachusetts/?p=2833565

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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When I use it (and I don't always) it is because it is easy for me to remember. Not sure I even KNOW any others.

 

The best one is the one that gets used. If you can't remember it you can't use it.

 

I find it easy to remember.

Brad

"Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind" - Rudyard Kipling
"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

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I don't use pangrams in my reviews. I write the name of the pen, the name of the ink, do some swirls, and write a tiny bit of random stuff. The pangram would show my handwriting, not the ink.

Proud resident of the least visited state in the nation!

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It's a very common sentence used way back when the early communications systems were being developed. It ensured that each letter was properly encoded and transmitted while remaining an easy to remember expression for a comms operator/tester. I learned it back in the early 80's while developing communications software.

Favorite pen/ink pairings: Edison Brockton w/EF 14K gold nib and Noodler's 54th Massachusetts; Visconti Pinanfarina w/EF chromium conical nib and Noodler's El Lawrence; Sheaffer Legacy w/18k extra fine inlaid nib and Noodler's Black; Sheaffer PFM III fine w/14k inlaid nib and Noodler's Black; Lamy 2000 EF with Noodler's 54th Massachusetts; Franklin Christoph 65 Stablis w/steel Masuyama fine cursive italic and DeAtramentis Document Blue; Pilot Decimo w/18k fine nib and Pilot Blue Black; Franklin Christoph 45 w/steel Masuyama fine cursive italic and Noodler's Zhivago; Edison Brockton EF and Noodler's El Lawrence; TWSBI ECO EF with Noodler's Bad Green Gator.

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:lticaptd:

Your daughter isn't the only one. Thanks for making me laugh (and thereby salvaging what so far has been a pretty crummy day for me). Do you know offhand where it originated? Because I'm definitely stealing it....

Of course now I'm wondering how to fit the missing letters back into it (C, J, Q, R, V, and Z -- just in case anyone cares).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

edited for typos

 

ETA: Ah, found the other thread. Now I have to go pester Sasha Royale to find out where *he* got it from.... ;)

 

The quick brown fox -- I first ran into it in seventh grade printing class (1961), Mr. Cotton told us that it used most of the letters in the alphabet, we'd learn a California job case layout quickly. The other one we used for practise was "Pick and click goes the type in the stick as the printer pulls type from his case" -- an exercise in ascending and descending letters.

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