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What's That I See? Another Plum 51? Say It Ain't So...


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I don't understand, what's wrong with the auction? I'm not casting anything you are saying into doubt - I literally don't understand, but would like to so that I don't get caught up in any scams.

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I think that pen and pencil set looks like it could be a plum set. There is a bluishness in them that doesn't belong in a burgundy set. I think it is a plum set. I am now watching it for amusement only. No bidding intent. I am hoping for a nice entertaining hissing contest.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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I don't understand, what's wrong with the auction? I'm not casting anything you are saying into doubt - I literally don't understand, but would like to so that I don't get caught up in any scams.

 

Plum 51s are very desirable among collectors of 51s because it was only made for 1 year (2nd quarter of 1948 to 1st quarter of 1949) so there are comparatively less plum 51s than any other Aerometric 51 color.

 

However, plum is very difficult to accurately photograph and it is very easy to mistake plum for burgundy or cordovan brown (which was only used in Vac 51s). Most plums advertised on eBay turn out to be one of those two colors.

 

Personally, I think this set is burgundy and not plum. However, it seems to be in excellent condition with the chrome trim on the cap lips and the frosting of the Lustraloy almost completely intact.

Parker: Sonnet Flighter, Rialto Red Metallic Laque, IM Chiseled Gunmetal, Latitude Stainless, 45 Black, Duovac Blue Pearl Striped, 51 Standard Black, Vac Jr. Black, 51 Aero Black, 51 Vac Blue Cedar, Duofold Jr. Lapis, 51 Aero Demi Black, 51 Aero Demi Teal, 51 Aero Navy Gray, Duofold Pastel Moire Violet, Vac Major Golden Brown, Vac Deb. Emerald, 51 Vac Dove Gray, Vac Major Azure, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, 51 Vac Black GF Cap, 51 Forest Green GF cap, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, Duovac Senior Green & Gold, Duovac Deb. Black, Challenger Black, 51 Aero Midnight, Vac. Emerald Jr., Challenger Gray Pearl, 51 Vac Black, Duofold Int. Black, Duofold Jr. Red.

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1. Sorry, but they look Burgundy to me. (Of course, there's just two pics, both in Different, less than optimal lighting.)

 

2. He doesn't even know what he types in his own listing. :rolleyes: (Argues that he Doesn't say in the listing they are Specials. They Can't Be Plums and Specials at the same time.) [EDIT] And, those are Clearly NOT Special caps.

 

3. He even Flunked out of Ruler 101 :rolleyes: ("Approximately 5 1/4"? Yeah, that's REAL helpful. <On a question that can DOUBLE the value of a real Plum.>

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited by OcalaFlGuy
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Plum 51s are very desirable among collectors of 51s because it was only made for 1 year (2nd quarter of 1948 to 1st quarter of 1949) so there are comparatively less plum 51s than any other Aerometric 51 color.

 

However, plum is very difficult to accurately photograph and it is very easy to mistake plum for burgundy or cordovan brown (which was only used in Vac 51s). Most plums advertised on eBay turn out to be one of those two colors.

 

Personally, I think this set is burgundy and not plum. However, it seems to be in excellent condition with the chrome trim on the cap lips and the frosting of the Lustraloy almost completely intact.

 

 

1. Sorry, but they look Burgundy to me. (Of course, there's just two pics, both in Different, less than optimal lighting.)

 

2. He doesn't even know what he types in his own listing. :rolleyes: (Argues that he Doesn't say in the listing they are Specials. They Can't Be Plums and Specials at the same time.) [EDIT] And, those are Clearly NOT Special caps.

 

3. He even Flunked out of Ruler 101 :rolleyes: ("Approximately 5 1/4"? Yeah, that's REAL helpful. <On a question that can DOUBLE the value of a real Plum.>

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

Good for you. This is one of the few of these toss-up sets that has appeared plum to me. I have a plum set and find that it has a bluish cast, which is what I see here. Of course, I really don't believe in holding down the squeeze bar when filling a 51 either. Experimentation will prove either case, one way or the other. I am more interested in the p*ssing contests that so often develop around the conjecture of plum.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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When I saw the first pic, I almost went GOODIE! thinking it was taken outside in bright sunlight against real grass. Then, I'm not so sure about the "real" grass. And it sure looks like a camera flash hotspot on the pens and case to me. Camera flash is a lousy teller of Plum IMO. Real grass is almost exactly the same as a neutral gray card, the Perfect background for a pic. Bright natural sunlight is IMO, the Best light to tell Plums in. They look NOT Burgundy then.

 

Pic 2 to me looks inside in indirect artificial light, no flash. I Still see reddish highlights that I shouldn't if a Plum. IMO, in that light, I'd expect them to be More close to black looking. (The Eggplant Effect) [EDIT]; I will say that if Anything makes me wonder for a second or two, it's Pic #2

 

If in Both these pics (in 2 completely different lighting situations) they look Burgundy to me, then, I think they're Burgundy.

 

Of course, the Coup de Grace Primo photo would be with them Next To a Burgundy Aero. I also realize that 1) the seller probably doesn't know to do that and 2) he may very well Not have a Burgundy Aero

 

So here you go Paul. Let's say an hour before the close they're sitting at $75. Would YOU put a bid in on them knowing what you see here, for $120? (Which would be a STEAL for this set if Plum, not so much if not. And I know you don't need more Plums but at $120, you Could TRIPLE your money "overnight".)

 

I wouldn't.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited by OcalaFlGuy
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Honestly, I can't tell. I have what I firmly believe to be a Plum Demi because it really looked different compared to both my burgundy 51 Special and to the black 51 Vac I got the same weekend as the Demi (in fact, both the Plum and the 51 Vac came in the mail the same day). And in the one photo they do look the same as what I have. And the other, well....

I'm with pajaro on this one. Looking but not bidding.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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When I saw the first pic, I almost went GOODIE! thinking it was taken outside in bright sunlight against real grass. Then, I'm not so sure about the "real" grass. And it sure looks like a camera flash hotspot on the pens and case to me. Camera flash is a lousy teller of Plum IMO. Real grass is almost exactly the same as a neutral gray card, the Perfect background for a pic. Bright natural sunlight is IMO, the Best light to tell Plums in. They look NOT Burgundy then.

 

Pic 2 to me looks inside in indirect artificial light, no flash. I Still see reddish highlights that I shouldn't if a Plum. IMO, in that light, I'd expect them to be More close to black looking. (The Eggplant Effect) [EDIT]; I will say that if Anything makes me wonder for a second or two, it's Pic #2

 

If in Both these pics (in 2 completely different lighting situations) they look Burgundy to me, then, I think they're Burgundy.

 

Of course, the Coup de Grace Primo photo would be with them Next To a Burgundy Aero. I also realize that 1) the seller probably doesn't know to do that and 2) he may very well Not have a Burgundy Aero

 

So here you go Paul. Let's say an hour before the close they're sitting at $75. Would YOU put a bid in on them knowing what you see here, for $120? (Which would be a STEAL for this set if Plum, not so much if not. And I know you don't need more Plums but at $120, you Could TRIPLE your money "overnight".)

 

I wouldn't.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

It's a nice looking set, even if it turns out to be burgundy. I would only do it if it were an extra fine nib. The seller (I was going to write jack*ss) didn't show enough pics to prove the thing has a nib or even a section. No tickee, no washee. Nice cap and barrel, so no bid.

 

My plum set sits in a free $300 pen case the Chairman of the bank left when he retired. With four Carenes. Useless, useless. I ought to sell them all.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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You can have the FP. I just need the pencil for a complete set.

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Pic #2 looks black to me. That raspberry/burgundy/plum towel he has it against makes it hard to tell though. The other one does look more plum-ish. But that is the eye of someone who has never seen a real plum 51.

Brad

"Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind" - Rudyard Kipling
"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

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Paul, Good call on the nib and section, you're the Only one who mentioned that so far. :thumbup: (And Trust Me! I know the full body tremor agony of getting one with a chipped hood you couldn't see in the pics. :( )



I was actually tryin' to help the guy out but he took offense to that. :rolleyes: I would have gladly tried to help him max out his close price but not if he's gonna kick me in the sockets for trying to help. Now I Hope it Is Plum and I Hope it goes for that $120. ;)



Bruce in Ocala, Fl


Edited by OcalaFlGuy
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aH, I tHouGht tHaT wAs yoUR qUEStioN iN THe LiSTiNg BRUce. I REcoGniZeD yoUr StiCkY ShIFT KEy.

 

I'm not so sure the seller is trying to be unhelpful, and I doubt that he is trying to deceive. It's probably best not to cast dispersions on him. It looks like he tries to answer questions to the best of his ability. And, I'll bet he'd add a picture or four if someone were to ask.

 

Best,

Daniel

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I think it is really Nassau.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next great pen show is on schedule for August 27-28-29, 2021. If we all do what we need to do...you can Book your travel and tables and make SF 2021 the Return. 
 

 My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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I think it is really Nassau.

 

You never really know with that bad lighting :D

Parker: Sonnet Flighter, Rialto Red Metallic Laque, IM Chiseled Gunmetal, Latitude Stainless, 45 Black, Duovac Blue Pearl Striped, 51 Standard Black, Vac Jr. Black, 51 Aero Black, 51 Vac Blue Cedar, Duofold Jr. Lapis, 51 Aero Demi Black, 51 Aero Demi Teal, 51 Aero Navy Gray, Duofold Pastel Moire Violet, Vac Major Golden Brown, Vac Deb. Emerald, 51 Vac Dove Gray, Vac Major Azure, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, 51 Vac Black GF Cap, 51 Forest Green GF cap, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, Duovac Senior Green & Gold, Duovac Deb. Black, Challenger Black, 51 Aero Midnight, Vac. Emerald Jr., Challenger Gray Pearl, 51 Vac Black, Duofold Int. Black, Duofold Jr. Red.

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Daniel, I didn't allude to him being dishonest, just clueless.

 

You also didn't see several backchannel conversations that he Didn't post where he showed his appreciation for intended help.

 

Contrary to popular belief, I just don't go kicking Ebay sellers because I've run out of puppies. ;)

 

PS; that first sentence was pretty funny! :lol:

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

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Up to 81 bucks with 5 days still to run. I guess someone believes it really is purple. I'll fire off a question or two for more pictures when I get home from school. Don't worry, I'll be polite, honest!

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You never really know with that bad lighting :D

Knowledge is power.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next great pen show is on schedule for August 27-28-29, 2021. If we all do what we need to do...you can Book your travel and tables and make SF 2021 the Return. 
 

 My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Bruce, you are right: I didn't see the back channel chatter. How could I? ;)

 

But, from the exchanges I could see, it looked like the guy was being given the puppy treatment. As for the random caps, I am intrigued by them and continue to strive to discern a pattern!

 

Peace,

Daniel

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