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Presenting Your Ink With Realistic Colours. Counter The Differences Between Paper And Monitor


Morbus Curiositas

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Hi Sandy....

 

Interesting approach. I must look into that.

 

 

The funny thing is that my scans look over exposed. Both in my old canon and HP scanner....

 

I must do some trial and error with those, I suppose.

 

Peter

 

Hi,

 

It seems to me that early scanners were direct descendants of the fax machine, so were very binary: on or off, which can give a very high contrast result. It was when the digital camera sensor technology and image processing software merged with scanner mechanics that it became possible to create a hi-res linear scan of a continuous tone original.

 

Some time ago my now-ex beau worked as pro photographer, and when he met with his fellow photographers I was taken for a dumb blonde, so I took a course in photography. It was dedicated to wet process black and white. I learned that the f stop is not the name of a honky-tonk, and about ye olde Zone System which involves pre-visualising and controlling how tones are depicted. Perhaps the most important thing I learned is that I have about zero interest in photography - my camera is an old hand-me-down rollei 35 stowed in a ski boot that's had the same roll of film in it for years.

 

I suppose that trial and error can get you where you want to go, but a Grey Scale or other same-purpose target is an aid to navigation which can get you there much faster...

 

Bye,

S1

Edited by Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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Peter (and anyone else who wants to provide assistance).

 

I did a little checking into the one and only photo editing program available to me at work. It's called PaintNET v3.5.6. Under the "Adjustments" tab is has the following options:

 

Auto Level

Black & White

Brightness/Contrast

Curves

Hue/Saturation

Invert Colors

Posterize

Sepia.

 

The camera I have is a Panasonic DMC-ZS10. It's features include 21x intelligent zoom, a Leica DC Vario-Elmar 1:3.3-5.9/4.3-68.8 ASPH. lens, Lumix (whatever that is), 16x full HD. If I'm using the macro to take a photo, I usually leave the flash off, because I don't like the faded look the flash gives so close to the paper. I can set it for "incandescent" and "outdoor".

 

There you have my equipment and software parameters. Any advise will be appreciated!

 

Hi Sinistral you are the person who does this nice Artwork wiht inks :happyberet: Cool!!! Those works deserve the best presentation possible.

 

Down here is your original artwork, the second photo is the one PROTON007 was so nice to im prove (in a reply to your topic "4 purples")

fpn_1399713822__fpn_1398661912__image.jp

 

post-103451-0-73616200-1399560785.jpg

 

I Have downloaded the manual of your Camera. Is isa 14 Megapixel, without A RAW function.. Do not be sad simply use JPEG.

 

14 megapixel>>> You do not need to take photos in best quality

 

Down here is the image size/quality option from your camera menu (REC Menu, Picture size)

Picture Size ([Aspect Ratio]: )
14 M 10 M ∗ 7 M ∗ 5 M 3 M ∗ 0.3 M
4320×3240 3648×2736 3072×2304 2560×1920 2048×1536 640×480
I guess 5M should be sufficient for on scren presentations (in doubt choose 7)
Down here is the White Balance menu
■ Settings: [AWB] (automatic) / (outdoor, clear sky) / (outdoor, cloudy sky) /
(outdoor, shade) / (Incandescent lighting) /
(uses value set in ) / (set manually)

 

Take your photos in INDIRECT DAYLIGHT. Choosing a WB depedant on the weather

 

Until i get a grey card and can experience with it, make sure you use WHITE paper

Simply save them and send them to me ( I will give you one of my E-mail adresses in the messenger).

 

I will then see what I can do, rememberI am an amateur. (In the shortest possible time, but hey I have to work too ;) )

 

I Will send them back to you and post them if you want.

 

Regards,

 

Peter

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism :)

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Wow. I sort of feel guilty that I just scan my reviews or if I'm feeling energetic, I take photo with my cell phone. I really admire what you are all doing.

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Color science, aka, why does the image on my computer look so different from my written page, is a big and multi-faceted challenge.

 

Computers video cards, software, and monitors have a lot of complexity (is your monitor calibrated? Are you running a special icc profile for desktop publishing or other work? How many lumens is your monitor throwing? What is the ambient light like in your room, especially behind your monitor? Have you been looking intently at a lot of magenta or other single hued things, if so then your color vision actually is fatigued and you will perceive colors differently until you take a break)

 

Computer monitors vary all over the map in their calibration. Many ink review warn about this, so I'll be brief, but you're viewing a png or jpeng image, and that image is asking for a color with say 12 on a scale of 0-255 for red, and 2 for green and 202 for blue. Your monitor will take that number and who knows just how "blue" that value of 202 becomes. The best solution for this is a monitor calibration tool, but they start at around 200$ and some monitors just can't hit some hues (e.g. some lower cost lcd panels only have 6 bits per red,green, and blue channels and have gaps in between certain hues).

 

 

There's also a fundamental challenge that comes from the difference between looking a paper and looking at a monitor. When we look at a written page you are seeing light that is being reflected off that paper and ink, whereas your computer screen is some form of "glowing" illumination.

In practical terms there's a wonderful thread about ink sheen and the photos that capture the sheen are often taken at a angle to the paper. Except for cheap lcds your computer monitor doesn't have that effect. :) But with paper, how you hold and look at the paper do have an impact on how it looks to us (which is part of why fountain pens are so cool IMO)

 

 

In practical terms for how to take pictures for ink reviews I'd advise you to shoot in raw mode, and if you can and include a gray card in one of your photos

 

When a camera produces a jpeg the camera's software can do a lot to the saturation and hue of your photo (and often to really pleasant effect), but this along with white balance can make for a really not-quite-true-to-life image. Shooting in Raw turns this in-camera processing off and usually gives you a stop or three more in range. If you like the free photo editing program GIMP there is a free plugin called UFRaw that adds support for Raw images and I'm pretty sure all of the Adobe applications have direct support for Raw

 

The gray card will help get your photo in a good ballpark.

 

Another suggestion in shooting is to use all one type of lighting. This isn't a common problem, but if you take an iphone photo of your written page and you have both a lamp on and you're near a window you can run into problems.

 

Lastly, it's not the end all be all, but isellpens.com and http://www.gouletpens.com/Swab_Shop_s/793.htm have already captured photos of many inks. if you take a photo of an ink that is on one of these sites compare their image to yours and see if your "photo capture pipeline" is producing results that match theirs... I'll quickly add the disclaimer inks vary greatly by wetness and paper how they took the photo and so on, but it is a low effort way to get a quick compare.

 

Cheers,

-Brian

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Color science, aka, why does the image on my computer look so different from my written page, is a big and multi-faceted challenge.

 

Computers video cards, software, and monitors have a lot of complexity (is your monitor calibrated? Are you running a special icc profile for desktop publishing or other work? How many lumens is your monitor throwing? What is the ambient light like in your room, especially behind your monitor? Have you been looking intently at a lot of magenta or other single hued things, if so then your color vision actually is fatigued and you will perceive colors differently until you take a break)

 

Computer monitors vary all over the map in their calibration. Many ink review warn about this, so I'll be brief, but you're viewing a png or jpeng image, and that image is asking for a color with say 12 on a scale of 0-255 for red, and 2 for green and 202 for blue. Your monitor will take that number and who knows just how "blue" that value of 202 becomes. The best solution for this is a monitor calibration tool, but they start at around 200$ and some monitors just can't hit some hues (e.g. some lower cost lcd panels only have 6 bits per red,green, and blue channels and have gaps in between certain hues).

 

 

There's also a fundamental challenge that comes from the difference between looking a paper and looking at a monitor. When we look at a written page you are seeing light that is being reflected off that paper and ink, whereas your computer screen is some form of "glowing" illumination.

In practical terms there's a wonderful thread about ink sheen and the photos that capture the sheen are often taken at a angle to the paper. Except for cheap lcds your computer monitor doesn't have that effect. :) But with paper, how you hold and look at the paper do have an impact on how it looks to us (which is part of why fountain pens are so cool IMO)

 

 

In practical terms for how to take pictures for ink reviews I'd advise you to shoot in raw mode, and if you can and include a gray card in one of your photos

 

When a camera produces a jpeg the camera's software can do a lot to the saturation and hue of your photo (and often to really pleasant effect), but this along with white balance can make for a really not-quite-true-to-life image. Shooting in Raw turns this in-camera processing off and usually gives you a stop or three more in range. If you like the free photo editing program GIMP there is a free plugin called UFRaw that adds support for Raw images and I'm pretty sure all of the Adobe applications have direct support for Raw

 

The gray card will help get your photo in a good ballpark.

 

Another suggestion in shooting is to use all one type of lighting. This isn't a common problem, but if you take an iphone photo of your written page and you have both a lamp on and you're near a window you can run into problems.

 

Lastly, it's not the end all be all, but isellpens.com and http://www.gouletpens.com/Swab_Shop_s/793.htm have already captured photos of many inks. if you take a photo of an ink that is on one of these sites compare their image to yours and see if your "photo capture pipeline" is producing results that match theirs... I'll quickly add the disclaimer inks vary greatly by wetness and paper how they took the photo and so on, but it is a low effort way to get a quick compare.

 

Cheers,

-Brian

Hi BrIan,

 

thanks for your input..

 

Tas already pointed out the Grey card issue which I will buy and use.

 

I try to use the same light as much as possible and counter eventual differences with raw. You have put in some excellent input on monitor and light reflection.

 

Will studdy this... Thanks a lot..

 

With every new input this topic gets more complete and better... Hopefully resulting in even better results...

 

Have a nice Sunday,

 

Peter

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism :)

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Wow. I sort of feel guilty that I just scan my reviews or if I'm feeling energetic, I take photo with my cell phone. I really admire what you are all doing.

 

Thanks Amberlea

 

Do not worry about the scans.... It is like Tas wrote in a previous reply....

 

Better less perfect reviews than no reviews... I do like your reviews and look forward to new ones.

 

In the replies to this topic several FPN friends replied with more very useful tips. Maybe it is a good idea to pin this topic.

 

This way other FPN members can both profit of this topic and put new useful tips in as well. Somewhere soon we develop a very good way to present Ink reviews with the least amount of work and the best results...

 

In the mean while I make you the same offer as I did for Sinistral... In doubt mail me your ink photos. I will give it my best and send them back to you...

 

Greetz,

 

 

Peter

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism :)

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Believe it or not, we have to many interesting topics to pin.

I'll look and see if we have an "interesting topics" thread pinned.

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I find that, in researching an ink colour to see if I like it, I must go to one particular reviewer. I then find an ink I'm familiar with that they have reviewed, then I can "dial in" my perception to their colour profile, etc.

 

When scanning my own samples, I tend to depend on the scanner software, then adjust colour balance in Photoshop. When using non-white papers, I scan a strip of white paper at the bottom, calibrate to that, then crop it out. I don't have the experience to get more technical than that.

 

It certainly helps to see what MC (and S1) offer here, for which we are all grateful.

"I was cut off from the world. There was no one to confuse or torment me, and I was forced to become original." - Franz Joseph Haydn 1732 - 1809
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Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Cool

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism :)

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  • 3 months later...

I would like to say... this was the very same question that I asked in my former field as a multimedia arts student WHAT IS TRUE COLOR... SERIOUSLY no one can really give a definitive answer for 1 color is quite a very subjective matter to our eyes to our printers and to our monitors... we really just perhaps really not get what is 100% true color

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I've been burned too many times by "pictures on the net" with no color reference anchor. I now only judge comparatively (i.e. if there are 2 or more inks in the scan and I happen to have experience with one of them).

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I've been burned too many times by "pictures on the net" with no color reference anchor. I now only judge comparatively (i.e. if there are 2 or more inks in the scan and I happen to have experience with one of them).

Hi napalm best thing is to see it live... I can send you a postcard if you want...

 

By the way cool nickname...

 

Do not know wheter our Vietnamese FPN friends like it though :-) :-)

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism :)

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Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

These are not simple things to understand. For instance, what's a scan and is it done with a computer or a camera?

 

Looking for a black SJ Transitional Esterbrook Pen. (It's smaller than an sj)

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Thanks for all the technical information on photo/scan and truth in color. Since I am a "techno-peasant" I find the ordering of ink samples to be my cure for how an ink looks. However, since FPN is such a fantastic resource I would be remiss to ignore the talent and time everyone spends to present pens and inks in a way that is very helpful.

 

Just an observation (and I may be showing my bias here)

It seems to me that fountain pen-ers, when they get into something, they GET INTO IT. I say that with all due respect.

 

Smarter than the average bear-old reference to a cartoon.

Be Happy, work at it. Namaste

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I found that uploading an image here on FPN will NOT look like the image in your computer or the paper in your hand.

The FPN software does something to the image, probably to compress it to save space, and that messes up the color and image sharpness. I have color calibrated gear on my end, but once it leaves my computer, control of color is lost. At one time I tried several different iterations, trying to get the on screen FPN image to look like what I have. But in the end, I gave up in frustration.

 

My recommendation is to get an image hosting site (like Shutterfly, PhotoBucket or similar), upload the image there, then link your FPN post to that image.

 

@Larry

A "scan" refers to using a scanner to take a picture of the image (that is on a sheet of paper), into a file. The scanner is a device that is attached to the computer. Think of it like a photocopier that will generate a computer image file, rather than a piece of paper. Scanners can be a dedicated device that will only scan, or an "all in one" device with all or several of these functions: printer, fax machine, copier, scanner.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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ac12 Thanks Hey, I think I have one of those things!

 

Looking for a black SJ Transitional Esterbrook Pen. (It's smaller than an sj)

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