Why Do So Many Japanese Pens Use C/c Almost Solely?

[discopig]

This may have been asked before, but I can't seem to find a thread explaining it properly.

 

Why do so many Japanese pens (low, mid and high end) use cartridge/converter filling systems?

[KBeezie]

Hrm maybe their major customer base prefered it. I also noticed that Pilot and Platinum for example also tend to have much larger cartridges even to the point that you get better capacity refilling them than using a converter.

 

It could also be a factor of space-saving, requires more space and footprint to get a bottle out, and fill, rather than just pop in a new cartridge tucked away in a flat box somewhere. A typical housing accommodation in Japan is much smaller compared western regions (particularly US).

 

The question is probably best answered by someone who is a marketing specialist in Japan or Asia in general.

Edited May 7, 2014 by KBeezie

[tinta]

Perhaps FPN members Altec Green or Stan at Ryojusen Pens would be able to shed some light on your question. Thought I cannot afford most of them, I am still fascinated about Japanese pens.

I'll follow this thread to find out where it leads.

Edited May 7, 2014 by tinta

[playtime]

I suspect it is because it is easier to clean and to maintain.

[KBeezie]

I suspect it is because it is easier to clean and to maintain.

 

But then why do western markets seem to prefer piston/vact/etc?

[ethernautrix]

Perhaps FPN members Altec Green or Stan at Ryojusen Pens would be able to shed some light on your question. Thought I cannot afford most of them, I am still fascinated about Japanese pens.

I'll follow this thread to find out where it leads.

 

Altec Green doesn't visit fpn anymore, but you might ask him over at fpgeeks forums.

[tinta]

 

Altec Green doesn't visit fpn anymore, but you might ask him over at fpgeeks forums.

Oh,........I didn't know. I always enjoyed his knowledgeable explanation. Is he under the same name?

[brunico]

It could also be a factor of space-saving, requires more space and footprint to get a bottle out, and fill, rather than just pop in a new cartridge tucked away in a flat box somewhere. A typical housing accommodation in Japan is much smaller compared western regions (particularly US).

 

If Japanese people have room for cups of sencha - or even for a surface to write on - I'm sure they have room to open a bottle of Sailor Jentle. I never bother to look for space, so I just put the bottle right in front of me: tonight I opened it on my laptop, and last week I opened it on the arm of a chair. You see, I like to live dangerously.

 

The cartridge/converter system is the norm in the Western market, too, though several manufacturers offer other systems in some of their more expensive pens (just as Pilot and Sailor do). Some Western manufacturers are noted for sticking with the older systems: Montblanc makes more piston-filling models than cartridge/converter types (though it probably sells more biros than anything else), and Pelikan is known in these parts for its piston-fillers (though I'm guessing it sells far more Pelikanos, Twists and all the rest, which aren't piston-fillers).

[stan]

C/c - cartridge/converter.

 

As opposed to what other system?

The benefit of a cartridge/converter system, and cartridges especially, is cleanliness.

One does not need to mess with little bottles of ink. Try spilling a cartridge. Do you need to wipe one?

[KBeezie]

 

If Japanese people have room for cups of sencha - or even for a surface to write on - I'm sure they have room to open a bottle of Sailor Jentle. I never bother to look for space, so I just put the bottle right in front of me: tonight I opened it on my laptop, and last week I opened it on the arm of a chair. You see, I like to live dangerously.

 

True True.

 

The cartridge/converter system is the norm in the Western market, too, though several manufacturers offer other systems in some of their more expensive pens (just as Pilot and Sailor do). Some Western manufacturers are noted for sticking with the older systems: Montblanc makes more piston-filling models than cartridge/converter types (though it probably sells more biros than anything else), and Pelikan is known in these parts for its piston-fillers (though I'm guessing it sells far more Pelikanos, Twists and all the rest, which aren't piston-fillers).

I wonder if in the US at the very least, if it's the perception of commodities like cartridges being more expensive and a "rip-off" in the long run, like how many people complain of ink cartridges as opposed to say refill kits, to "stick it to the man" mentality so to speak when it comes to buying low and being screwed over on the refills.

Could just be the marketing and being 'sold' on what is better than the other, one market simply embraced the convenience of it, another sold the consumer on why other built-in filling methods are better.

While I do like the piston filling mechanism (especially one with an ink window), the C/C design that Pilot/Platinum etc uses seems nicer and easier to clean, they have a much larger 'mouth' to the feed, which is easier to clean with even a broad water bulb, and the design leaves little room for a converter/cartridge malfunction of slipping off the nipple compared to say international standard.

Edited May 7, 2014 by KBeezie

[TTAlex]

Perhaps it's because Japanese pens are generally much finer in nib size, requiring less ink, and thusly are predominantly c/c.

[KBeezie]

Perhaps it's because Japanese pens are generally much finer in nib size, requiring less ink, and thusly are predominantly c/c.

Except that Japanese cartridges tend to be much larger than western cartridges. So where does the less ink justification fit I then? (and the finer line is generally desired due to the characters they write, hard to do with a thick nib in the same space of paper)

Edited May 7, 2014 by KBeezie

[brunico]

I wonder if in the US at the very least, if it's the perception of commodities like cartridges being more expensive and a "rip-off" in the long run

 

I understand from comments on FPN that the American market is slightly different from many European markets, including the British one. Here, fountain pens are a bit less common these days, but they're not really out of the ordinary. Most people I know here who use fountain pens - in real life, not FPN! - use C/C pens and fill from bottles, usually because it costs much less, though I think cartridges were more popular at school (because it's easier to keep a box inside your bag than to remember to check your ink level every morning).

 

It may well be that fountain pens in the US are less of a school staple and more of a luxury good than elsewhere, making other filling systems relatively more popular. But I'd still guess that C/C is more popular in every country.

 

I'm equally happy with C/C and piston fill, but I always thought cartridges expensive, and messier than filling from a bottle. I was on the bottle right from being a small boy...

[ArchiMark]

 

But then why do western markets seem to prefer piston/vact/etc?

 

From reading comments here on FPN, there's seems to be a sort of piston filler snobbery that goes on.....ie, it's not a high quality pen unless it's a piston filler.....seems pretty silly to me, as the real business of a fountain pen I thought is to write well, so, you'd think there'd be more concern about nibs/feeds.....go figure.....

 

And so people know, I have and most of the various filling systems; piston, converter, and lever.....they all get the job done as far as I can tell....there are theories about converters not working well, but I've never had any issues with them, and they're very easy to use and clean!......

 

But of course everyone has the right to their preferences, so, if pistons are someone's thing, go for it....

 

[KBeezie]

 

From reading comments here on FPN, there's seems to be a sort of piston filler snobbery that goes on.....ie, it's not a high quality pen unless it's a piston filler.....seems pretty silly to me, as the real business of a fountain pen I thought is to write well, so, you'd think there'd be more concern about nibs/feeds.....go figure.....

 

That makes sense in a way, since there's a certain 'aura' to a piston filler, as if it were some kind of fine craftsmanship from top to bottom worthy of extra money. But when you consider fountain pens as basically being the function of capillary actions, and most of the high end ones using nothing more than a latex sac, changing the internal filling system doesn't exactly make it worth more. I've seen several desirable pens that are just C/C, my only gripe with them is the type of C/C fitting they use (primarily if it's not something I can just obtain easily as a replacement, but over time I've found this reason to be trivial.)

[Blade Runner]

It's functionality. The small calibre of convertors sometimes causes ink to stick to the sides of the convertor and preventing ink from getting to the feed. It doesn't always happen, but when it does, it's very annoying. You don't know if you've run out of ink or if ink is stuck. You have to unscrew the pen to take a look, and if it's the latter case, you have to flick the pen or play with the convertor to get the ink down. How annoying is that? Annoying enough to get rid of the pen.

[Komitadjie]

Honestly, given my preference of all systems, I'll take the C/C for it's ease of filling, ease of flushing for ink changes, and ease of carrying portable, non-spillable ink on the plane!

[discopig]

Thanks for the replies. I don't mind C/C too much myself, I was mostly just curious about it, because my 4 Japanese pens (Pilot Metal Falcon, Namiki Falcon, Pilot VP and Platinum 3776 Century) are all C/C. I can say I really like the CON-70 converter, but I just wish it fit into my other two Pilot pens. I love the big ink capacity and how easy it is to fill.

Edited May 7, 2014 by discopig

[proton007]

I think it's got to do with variety.

 

No other manufacturer makes as many models of pens in as many nib styles as Pilot or Sailor does.

 

When you have this big a range of pen bodies and nib choices, it's wise to standardize some components.

 

Filler systems integrated into the body of a pen are unique to that model's body, and you can't make too many models while keeping them cost effective at the same time.

That's why you'll notice pens that have a non-CC filling system usually don't have a lot of models.

 

Additionally, a Con-70 works just as well as a Piston Filler, so why bother with making a different filler system?

Edited May 7, 2014 by proton007

[KBeezie]

Thanks for the replies. I don't mind C/C too much myself, I was mostly just curious about it, because my 4 Japanese pens (Pilot Metal Falcon, Namiki Falcon, Pilot VP and Platinum 3776 Century) are all C/C. I can say I really like the CON-70 converter, but I just wish it fit into my other two Pilot pens. I love the big ink capacity and how easy it is to fill.

 

You know if the Con-70 will fit the Falcon (from what I understand it comes with a Con-50)?

Edited May 7, 2014 by KBeezie