How Much Ink Should A Sheaffer Snorkel Hold?

[BlotBot]

I just finished restoring a Sheaffer Snorkel Admiral. While it is sucking up ink, it is only pulling in about 0.5 ml. That doesn't seem like enough. What should it hold? Have I got an air leak?

 

Thanks

Ellen

[sargetalon]

In my experience, the Snorkel holds 0.75 to 0.8 mL of ink. I'm not sure what the official quoted capacity is though. I have heard of some pens normally only taking up 0.5 mL so yours may be in line with that. Hopefully others can give you more input.

[BT-7274]

.6-7mL is usually about right, unless you're filling in a hurry. Try leaving the Snorkel tube in the ink for about 10-15 seconds after the 'chiff' on the downstroke; I find that's roughly the amount of time it takes for the sac to fully fill with ink.

[BlotBot]

I am wondering how much this has to do with the choice of sac. I used the latex sac that came in the Snorkel repair kit, but I see there are also "thin walled" sacs for snorkels. I don't know if this particular sac is thin walled.

 

I imagine it also has to do with how well the sac compresses with pressure and then springs back. Are some kinds of sacs better at this?

[Ernst Bitterman]

I've read some articles examining the utility of the thin-walled sacs; there is a school of thought suggesting that the greater ease of compression is counterbalanced by a reduced ability to return to full size against the resistance of the ink. A particularly thick sac would give trouble, but that's more often something finds in non-latex sacs.

 

Try a filling cycle in a vessel of water big enough to submerge the pen right up the the back of the impression. If you see it blowing bubbles anywhere other than the end of the snorkel, then you've got a compression leak. Usually the culprit is the joint threads.

 

My experience is also in the area of 0.8 ml for a fill.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Ernst Bitterman

[BlotBot]

Do you mean the impression

 

Try a filling cycle in a vessel of water big enough to submerge the pen right up the the back of the impression.

Do you mean the impression on the barrel? Would a bit of silicone grease on the threads fix this?

[Ron Z]

Richard and I had a bunch (I still have a bunch) of snorkel sacs that came out of the Sheaffer service center. I can tell you that they most certainly are NOT super flexible thin walled sacs. There is plenty of pressure to squeeze a standard sac completely when the TD tube is compressed. The ability to spring back to shape completely is rather important, and a thicker walled, standard sac will do this better. Having said that though, I have quit using latex sacs in snorkels. The risk of damage to the internal parts when the sac fails and leaks far outweighs the little bit of capacity that you may lose if you use a PVC sac from Woodbin (marked silicone) or one of David Nishimura's true silicone sacs. Please use them to prevent future damage to your pen.

 

Of equal or greater importance is 1] having the right size 0-ring in the back end, a good seal at the blind cap, and a good seal at the threads. I had a bag of OEM 0-rings from Sheaffer. Martin and Sam Marshall did a test with one of the OEM 0-rings. Thicker and softer than the after market 0-rings then being sold it made quite a difference in the amount of ink pulled in. I gave the information on the paper inside the bag with the specifications for durometer and size to both David Nishimura and Martin Ferguson so that they could order precisely the right 0-rings to sell. Martin has since sold his snorkel supply business to Anderson Pens.

 

Make sure that there is a good rubber washer in the blind cap. A piece of scrap latex sac will do well. Sheaffer used rosin based thread sealant on the section threads because it gave a better seal than without, and I use it as well when assembling the pen.

[BlotBot]

Ron,

 

I purchased 14.5 and 14 PVC sacs from Woodbin, but both were too big for the section. I defaulted to the latex sac that came in the snorkel kit and it fits fine.

 

In the blind cap there was a square washer. As the kit didn't have a replacement for this, I reused it. Is this the blind cap washer?

 

Ellen

[Ernst Bitterman]

I tend to forget about the blind cap seal when I'm not actually in the midst of working on the pen, but it is desperately important, and it is that squarish washer up inside the blind cap. Kits usually don't have a replacement in them, and frequently the washer is OK or revives sufficiently when silicone grease is applied to it (sparingly, so as to not grease the screw). If yours has gone hard, it's easy to snip a replacement out of the trimmed bit of a sac

 

...and yes, going up-thread a bit, I do mean the barrel impression. Covert barrel cracks are a real pain, and that's the easy way to ferret them out.

[BlotBot]

Excellent. Thank you all.

[inkstainedruth]

So, after reading this thread, I have a question. Roughly how much actual writing can one do with that capacity of ink? I ask because I bought a Snorkel last winter at an antiques mall and was told at the time that it was restored. But when I tried filling it, I could only get about a paragraph of writing before it would conk out. I seem to recall reading in 'Da Book' something about how many words you could write with one, which was a lot more than 1 paragraph's worth. So I'm guessing that the pen isn't as "restored" as they made it out to be.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[BlotBot]

Ruth,

 

Thinking of how long it takes to go through an ink cartridge, is seems like your pen is not holding much ink. Try expelling the ink into a vial, like the Goulet ink sample vial, and see how much is in there. Maybe you have a leak as well.

[Ernst Bitterman]

So, after reading this thread, I have a question. Roughly how much actual writing can one do with that capacity of ink? I ask because I bought a Snorkel last winter at an antiques mall and was told at the time that it was restored. But when I tried filling it, I could only get about a paragraph of writing before it would conk out. I seem to recall reading in 'Da Book' something about how many words you could write with one, which was a lot more than 1 paragraph's worth. So I'm guessing that the pen isn't as "restored" as they made it out to be.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

I recently wrote fifteen pages in a sitting with a Snorkel-- single sided (terrible paper), in a 9.5" X 6" notebook. It wasn't absolutely dry when I finished, but there wasn't more than a drop left in the reservoir. If you're only getting a paragraph, your pen is definitely not in top form.

[inkstainedruth]

That's what I was afraid of. And it was the one I paid the most for, too.

Sounds as if I'm going to have to start saving up for repairs. Sigh.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Effin1]

I could not believe what a difference the blind cap seal makes. After dismantling my Snorkel 3 times and replacing the new sac, seal point gasket, and O ring my pen would still only fill on the upstroke. I did all the checks for cracks. I was tearing my hair out. I had repaired 10 Snorkels previously with no problems. I then re-read Richard Binders excellent article on Snorkel repair and suddenly it became so clear what the problem was. I had even asked the question on FPN but no-one mentioned the blind cap.

I fashioned a seal from a patch from a bicycle repair kit (didn't think about off cut from sac) put everything back together and tried filling again. I was over joyed. Filled perfectly. I will make sure I check the blind cap in fiuture. Lesson learned but that is what repairing is about. You seem to learn more when you get things wrong. Fortunately this was an easy fix.

[Ron Z]

The frustrating about cracks in snorkels is that sometimes they're almost impossible to see. They look like a fine scratch until you spread them a bit. The "bubble" test is a good way to check for leaks. Immerse the pen in water, but not the back end above the vent hole in the side. At least the front end above the threads should be immersed. Then push the plunger down. If you get bubbles from anywhere but the end of the snorkel tube, you have an air leak.

[BlotBot]

Update: I did the barrel submerssion test and did not find any air bubbles forming where they shouldn't. I then proceeded to replace the blind cap square washer with a piece of latex sac. Now I am getting about 0.6 to 0.7 ml of ink pulled in. I proclaim that "good enough"!

Edited April 27, 2014 by BlotBot

[NickJC]

Up from the depths......  dusting off the Cobb webs.

 

New to me statesmen snorkel....

 

Seems functional and was stated as restored.

 

It draws ink up and when expended I to a waterman international converter...seems to fill that about 75%...

 

Being the converter can hold up to .8ml..think this pen is drawing the right amount?

 

Any info or thoughts appreciated

[inkstainedruth]

4 hours ago, NickJC said:

Up from the depths......  dusting off the Cobb webs.

 

New to me statesmen snorkel....

 

Seems functional and was stated as restored.

 

It draws ink up and when expended I to a waterman international converter...seems to fill that about 75%...

 

Being the converter can hold up to .8ml..think this pen is drawing the right amount?

 

Any info or thoughts appreciated

Did you have the pen checked out before inking it the first time?  I got warned about that when I bought my first Snorkel -- if there's a leak in the sac, it can damage/destroy the flat spring in the fill mechanism, and that's a $20 US part just by itself, in addition to any other repairs or rehabs to the pen.  
But as for how much ink a Snorkel in working condition normally holds?  Sorry, not a clue.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bristol24]

14 hours ago, NickJC said:

Up from the depths......  dusting off the Cobb webs.

 

New to me statesmen snorkel....

 

Seems functional and was stated as restored.

 

It draws ink up and when expended I to a waterman international converter...seems to fill that about 75%...

 

Being the converter can hold up to .8ml..think this pen is drawing the right amount?

 

Any info or thoughts appreciated

While I do not own a Snorkel, I have repaired two for friends.  Unless yours is a PFM Snorkel, the sac is only a #14 which means that it's external diameter is just 14/64" with a useable length of no more than 2 inches so it's capacity is not going to be much more than you measured, I would think.  Perhaps a Snorkel expert will chime in but the standard Snorkel would not be known for having a large ink capacity.

 

Cliff