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"bleed Through"


Charles Skinner

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I am certainly now new to "the fountain pen world," but I am new, somewhat, to using many different color inks. I have noticed something I want to ask you about. The book I write in has really good paper, and with most inks I have used, there is little or no "see through" on the back side." However, some of the inks and have now really make a mess of the back side of the page I am writing on.

 

In the future, how can I be sure that a new color I may buy will not "show through" badly?

 

C.

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The in reviews are a good starting point but there are a lot of factors in this. One important factor is the combination pen/ink/paper which in the reviews might differ from your personal combination, another one is your own personal hand which may apply different pressure than the reviewer which leads to a different result (FP shouildn't require any pressure to write but that's another issue). For example, people keep nagging about the bleed through on Moleskine paper (among others) and yet, lots of people use it all the time without any problems. Certain combinations simply work. If you can work with that limitation, there is no problem.

I have quite a lot of different papers and every time I ink a pen, I write the pen, the nibsize in question and the ink in the back of the different notebooks and see what happens. Then I give it a personal usability score for future reference. Requires a bit of discipline but you can avoid surprises.

 

If you want to avoid this hassle, just switch to a guaranteed working paper brands like Rhodia, Clairefontaine of Oxford. Others will mention more brands but these are the ones that I have not yet succeeded to soak through ;-)

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I am certainly now new to "the fountain pen world," but I am new, somewhat, to using many different color inks. I have noticed something I want to ask you about. The book I write in has really good paper, and with most inks I have used, there is little or no "see through" on the back side." However, some of the inks and have now really make a mess of the back side of the page I am writing on.

 

In the future, how can I be sure that a new color I may buy will not "show through" badly?

 

C.

 

One simple (but possibly unreliable) test I've used is to hold the pen at a point and see if the ink blots. Dry inks usually don't; wet inks have higher surface tension so they respond more freely to capillary action and flow/spread readily.

 

For instance, the printer paper I use for writing practice shows no bleeding with Pelikan 4001 or Herlitz ink (mostly dry inks), but the De Atramentis Aubergine (wet ink) I sometimes use will cause visible bleeding.

Edited by proton007

In a world where there are no eyes the sun would not be light, and in a world where there were no soft skins rocks would not be hard, nor in a world where there were no muscles would they be heavy. Existence is relationship and you're smack in the middle of it.

- Alan Watts

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Many folks that still use Moleskine....do it with EF nibs too....not M or B.

 

What paper is in the book you use?

It takes a while to get a sense of paper.

I suggest buying a good to better paper be that a ream or a 'small' box every second ink.

Good to better paper costs a couple cans of coke or cups of Starbucks more than nice 90g paper....a minimum for me.

 

laser paper is best. 90-100g or even more after you have some. 110-120 some call heavy.

I've tried some of the heavier papers....150-170 g....

It's not all one way. I was looking at Gmund a very expensive paper....some inks were great on the 170.....some better on the 120.

It's a long twisty road....you got to walk...

Because writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order. Paper is more important than the ink...in it is on the paper dance floor the nib and the ink waltz, at midnight.

 

 

Stay way from Ink Jet paper in it is made to absorb ink jet ink fast.

I think combo paper will have weaknesses in it must work on both laser and ink jet....so compromises were made.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

You can always use a blotter. Cuts down on bleed-through and feathering, too.

Life is too short to drink bad wine (Goethe)

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The in reviews are a good starting point but there are a lot of factors in this. One important factor is the combination pen/ink/paper which in the reviews might differ from your personal combination, another one is your own personal hand which may apply different pressure than the reviewer which leads to a different result (FP shouildn't require any pressure to write but that's another issue). For example, people keep nagging about the bleed through on Moleskine paper (among others) and yet, lots of people use it all the time without any problems. Certain combinations simply work. If you can work with that limitation, there is no problem.

I have quite a lot of different papers and every time I ink a pen, I write the pen, the nibsize in question and the ink in the back of the different notebooks and see what happens. Then I give it a personal usability score for future reference. Requires a bit of discipline but you can avoid surprises.

 

If you want to avoid this hassle, just switch to a guaranteed working paper brands like Rhodia, Clairefontaine of Oxford. Others will mention more brands but these are the ones that I have not yet succeeded to soak through ;-)

 

 

I agree with erpe's suggestions. I tried using the ink reviews to choose what might work, but have found it really is very personal and subjective based on your pens, inks, papers, and writing styles. I have inks where reviews have noted smearing, bleeding, feathering and I have yet to duplicate. On the other hand, I have had some bad experiences with inks that others rave about and have yet to receive bad marks. So go figure!! I also have certain combinations of ink and pen that do wonderfully on otherwise very bad paper. Change the pen with the same ink and paper and it is horrific with all types of problems.

 

The reviews here are really meant to give a very general and cursory introduction to what the ink may look like and its performance on decent paper with above average qualities.

 

I have found even Tomoe River to fail depending on the ink and pen. Others that are very good but not 100% are Midori, Tsubame, and Apica.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You should add your negative comments to ink reviews.

 

I find the 6 or so samples and bottles of Diamine give me woolie lines/feathering on a fair sample of paper, but I am AR there.

 

I see many written samples that show wooly line, that are not commented on by the poster.

Perhaps they think that normal, and or are using 80g copy paper or even ink jet paper.

 

I mark an ink

BEF= bare eyed wooly line/feathering, See it from a normal sitting position.

NEF= near eye close up view.

MEF= honking big magnifying glass (can use a 10 X loupe also) wooly line/feathering.

NOF is great ink....no feathering under magnification.

 

That of course is paper dependent.

Pelikan Aventurine is one of those inks. On a few papers it is good, on many others there is at least a wooly line, on others what I consider feathering. That dropped that ink from a go to, to a got to get better paper for it ink.

 

Sigh, even MB Winter Forest is not 'perfect'. Still worth having though.

 

For me:

Ghost/Echo, one can see the line from the back, but it is not readable and can use the back side.

Show through, can read the words.....possible to use back side...if one has too.

Bleed through....splotchs of ink on the back side, can not use to write on.

 

Sigh, there is no perfect nib, no perfect paper, no perfect ink. But there is our hunt for a nib width&flex, paper and ink, that is perfect. That is possible, probable and will differ from poster to poster.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The in reviews are a good starting point but there are a lot of factors in this. One important factor is the combination pen/ink/paper which in the reviews might differ from your personal combination, another one is your own personal hand which may apply different pressure than the reviewer which leads to a different result (FP shouildn't require any pressure to write but that's another issue). For example, people keep nagging about the bleed through on Moleskine paper (among others) and yet, lots of people use it all the time without any problems. Certain combinations simply work. If you can work with that limitation, there is no problem.

I have quite a lot of different papers and every time I ink a pen, I write the pen, the nibsize in question and the ink in the back of the different notebooks and see what happens. Then I give it a personal usability score for future reference. Requires a bit of discipline but you can avoid surprises.

 

If you want to avoid this hassle, just switch to a guaranteed working paper brands like Rhodia, Clairefontaine of Oxford. Others will mention more brands but these are the ones that I have not yet succeeded to soak through ;-)

Hi Erpe what ink do you suggest for moleskine

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism :)

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Hi Erpe what ink do you suggest for moleskine

 

For Moleskine I currently (as in almost all the time) use Pelikan blue/black in a KaWeCo AL-sport/ Sport classic. KaWeCo uses the same nib/feed for a lot of models so I expect those to work as well. Other working pens with Pelikan Blue/Black are HERO 7022 M / HERO 7032 F / Delta Dolce Vita F / Kaigelu 316 MF / Pilot Prera M / Pilot Lucina F / Baoer Skywalker M / MB Mont Blanc Boheme F (the non-retracting nib version).

Also working is Preppy with R&K Salix, Since Moleskine is quite inconsistent in paper quality, other inks are a bit of trial and error. Waterman Serenité (T.I.F.K.A.F.) and Lamy Blue seem to work with some pens.

Inks that will not work are the different Diamine and Conway Stewart inks, they are simply too wet in any nib. There are so many inks I haven't tried :-)

Some additiomnal info is here: http://inkyjournal.blogspot.nl/search/label/100%25%20Moleskine-proof%20ink

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First point - The less ink on the paper, the less chance there is for bleeding. I use a fine dry nib in these circumstances.

Second point - The less saturated the ink, the less bleeding occurs. I find that Noodler's Blue, when diluted with 40% water gives an elegantly shading blue with minimal bleeding on poor papers. The same applies to Diamine inks

 

If all else fails, use Noodler's Black or an iron gall ink in a fine nibbed pen.

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“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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