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Faux Penman Sapphire #9


dcwaites

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You have a good point about the substitutions. I think we can introduce another variable: time. Time even to an unopened bottle of PPS will change the qualities of the ink either through degradation of the dyes or evaporation of the liquids. I'd go as far as to postulate that if we looked at 3 or 4 bottles of PPS there may be some subtle differences.

 

I applaud DC and you as you are working to create a suitable substitute for PPS. Good science consists of disagreements such as these. I am curious to kmow what formula you use, if any, to recreate PPS.

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  • 1 month later...
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hmmm

my DC SuperShow Blue does not match the sample on Sach's pix. In fact I was quite disappointed when I tested it. Mine is lighter/more washed out in color, not the rich color that is on your scan. In looking at your pix, I think my pen (Lamy joy with 1.1 nib) is not as wet as your pen, so I am not getting as much ink onto the paper. I may have to widen the slit in the nib to make the pen a bit more wet.

 

DC's scan is lighter in color than Sach's scan.

Assuming the scans are somewhat correct. (But remember ass-u-me)

Based on my experience, he may indeed have the genuine Penman Saphire ink, but if his pen is dryer, then ink line he is matching to is lighter.

So the reference point for color matching is different.

Will the ink darken to the same degree when put into a more wet pen? Can't tell until it is tested and compared.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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I made up a small batch of the ink, but without any water, for test 1.

I tested with a F nib fountain pen nib in a dip pen holder and the ink was much darker than DCs ink. Close to your Sach's '97 Penman sample. But it is hard to compare the color of my F nib ink like with Sach's wide ink line.

I am going to look for an italic nib to see what a wider ink like looks like.

Then I will try again with water mixed into the ink.

Edited by ac12

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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Here is my test.

I mixed the inks, but without water, to get the darkest ink color.

As you can see the ink color varies by the pen I used. The darkest ink is from a Goulet #6 F nib in my dip pen holder. The Lamy F and 1.1 nibs are lighter than the Goulet nib.

I also put a sample of Private Reserve, DC SuperShow Blue at the bottom for comparison. Unfortunately, the scanner altered the color. The DCSS blue is more blue than purple. So my scanner is not color neutral.

 

I tried to adjust the image so the image on MY screen looks like the ink on the paper.

It is close, but not accurate.

However, you can see the relative differences between the pens and the inks.

post-105113-0-82898100-1403664755_thumb.jpg

Edited by ac12

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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  • 1 month later...

This is a recipe that I will keep for use in the future. Merci.

Rob Maguire (Plse call me "M or Mags" like my friends do...)I use a Tablet, Apple Pencil and a fountain pen. Targas, Sailor, MB, Visconti all wonderful.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sach's original Penman Sapphire looks somewhat evaporated, which yields a higher dye density. I have not tried the mix, but I suspect it's probably not too far off the way Parker Sapphire looked when it was sold.

Robert.

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I use small plastic bottles from Nalgene that I purchased from Amazon. Most of mine are 30cc as I use them for travel. They are unbreakable for my purposes and unless your pen is very thick, they fit right into the bottle to fill. Nalgene makes many sizes of bottles and should have one to fit your needs.

 

 

What is a good recommendation to store 200ml of ink in? Thanks.

 

Regards,

Bill

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oooh I'll have to try this ... need to order the Majestic Blue first though.

 

I was curious : why so much water? Are Diamine inks considered that saturated?

 

-k

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Oooh I'll have to try this ... need to order the Majestic Blue first though.

 

I was curious : why so much water? Are Diamine inks considered that saturated?

 

-k

 

The Majestic Blue is quite a dark blue. I just added water until it looked right.

That also had the advantage of improving the dry time, smearing and bleeding properties of the Diamine ink to something very close to the original PPS.

 

Don't forget you really only need to order a 30ml bottle of the Diamine inks.

Edited by dcwaites

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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I ordered the 30ml bottles...plenty of ink there to experiement with.

 

I have just tried your recipe. I don't know if it replicates the original PPS as I don't have any to compare, but I do like the new colour.

 

I think this is going to be my "go to" blue for a while.

 

Thanks for introducing this to us. Cheers. :D

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  • 3 weeks later...

fpn_1413693437__thanks.jpg

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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  • 5 weeks later...

The last post from dcwaites is more like the shade of PPS that I have in my last cartridge, than the one above it from katerchen

 

Yeah, my scanner tends to wash out colors. It's darker than that in person. I need to tweak the exposure ... I just left everything on auto. Works wonders on photos, not as accurate on documents.

 

-k

 

(I did follow his instructions to the letter though)

Edited by katerchen
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  • 4 weeks later...

So, inspired by my attempts earlier today with diluting Diamine Majestic Blue, I decided to see if I could make a version with the correct colour.

 

And so -- behold Faux Penman Sapphire #9

Diamine Majestic Blue ..... 4 Parts

Diamine Sapphire Blue .... 3 Parts

Water ............................... 8 Parts

 

Depending on your particular pen and paper, you may wish to add more or less water to get a pleasing depth of colour. This particular batch works very will with fine nibbed pens, you may want to wind the water back a bit if you are using a medium or broad nib, or more absorbent paper.

 

I have attached some scans

fpn_1394340983__scan-140309-0002cropped.

 

 

The third scan shows the degree of bleeding, which again, is the same on this paper.

 

The second and third were done on old stock Reflex paper, which is a marginal paper for feathering and bleeding. On better paper, neither ink feathers or bleeds.

 

Other Properties --

  • Spreading. There was no noticeable spreading with either ink.
  • Dry Time. Both inks dry within seconds on most paper. Using fine nibbed pens on Clairefontaine I got 3 seconds dry time for each ink. Less on more absorbent papers. Of course, if you are going to use a broad nibbed firehose, dry times will be longer.
  • Red Sheen. Both inks will show a degree of red sheen when concentrated, or used in a wet pen.

So, as far as I can tell, I have been able to make an effective duplicate of Parker Penman Sapphire, in colour, appearance and behaviour.

 

The Quest stops here.

 

 

 

These scans differ from several others that lean toward teal or turquoise, both in the original PPS and the faux PPS. I have only a distant memory of PPS, but I remember not liking it much when it came out because of that teal or turquoise cast. Is my memory faulty, or are these scans off?

Rationalizing pen and ink purchases since 1967.

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These scans differ from several others that lean toward teal or turquoise, both in the original PPS and the faux PPS. I have only a distant memory of PPS, but I remember not liking it much when it came out because of that teal or turquoise cast. Is my memory faulty, or are these scans off?

 

The idea of the comparative scan was not to give you an absolute idea of the colour (impossible unless we all have colour calibrated scanners and monitors) but to compare them to each other. So, whether you see it as a greeny-blue, a bluey-blue or a purply-blue, the blend looks almost identical with the original. For this reason I used the same pen/nib/paper combination for both samples.

 

I tend to run my nibs a little on the dry side, others prefer a wetter nib. Each to their own. The whole idea of the blend was to give users a fair facsimile of the original, both in colour and behaviour on the paper.

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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  • 2 years later...

I know this is over two years late, but thank you dcwaites for your your work on this. I was so intrigued by this that I just ordered the Diamine ink components to mix up some FPS#9. I also ordered Noodler's NT and LCR to replicate NIS as well. I've never tried mixing inks before so this will be a new experience. I appreciate your efforts and willingness to share the information with the community... Thanks again.

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I know this is over two years late, but thank you dcwaites for your your work on this. I was so intrigued by this that I just ordered the Diamine ink components to mix up some FPS#9. I also ordered Noodler's NT and LCR to replicate NIS as well. I've never tried mixing inks before so this will be a new experience. I appreciate your efforts and willingness to share the information with the community... Thanks again.

 

Get your supplier of LCR to check before they pack it that you have the slightly purply version of LCR. There are also bottles of rather blue LCR which are very similar to Noodler's Blue, and it doesn't work for this blend.

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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