This Seems Like A Yes Or No Question (But Here, You Never Know!)

[herbsttag]

My Ahab smells like vomit (it actually makes me gag) and writes just okay when not flexing (and with constant railroading when trying to flex). These two issues have forced me to relegate it to a dank, dark corner of my drawer, uninked. Maybe at some point I'll have the energy to fiddle around with this pen, but I'm not too inclined to do so, especially when I have plenty of other sub $30 pens (Safari, Metro, Preppy) which work flawlessly. I probably would've been better off keeping my twenty dollars in the bank and saving up for a real vintage flex.

[fmfisdead]

As far as I know the Noodler's pens are made to experiment. They'd even expect you to heat set the nib if that's the case. I also agree that the smell is awful and the ink dries out SUPER fast. Like I think whatever it is made out of, the ink just evaporates at a high rate. That being said, I've seemed to have the pen write awesomely or sometimes be hard starting etc. Seemed to depend on the ink or maybe since it's an ebonite feed and hasn't been inked up for awhile.

 

As for the inks, I love them. Never had any issues and have definitely had altercations with Binder over it. He instantly blamed an issue with a nib on that ink and it really turned out to be a faulty grind on his part. After sending it back it now writes well but it was the worst customer service I've had to date.

 

Before knowing the issue he blamed the user and the ink. I do think he has a slight personal vendetta against Nathan.

 

If more companies made water resistant inks id be happy to try them.

[balson]

i have had 3 Konrads that i enjoyed. the piston broke on one and i have had some issues with poor ink flow due to letting their ink dry in the feed. the piston was able to be fixed up with tape and the clogging was fixed by flushing the feed in an ultrasonic cleaner. i think the Konrad needs to be used every day and flushed about once a week to keep it writing properly.

 

i do agree that noodler's inks are more prone to clogging than dye based inks. there are no dye based inks that can offer the same permanence in lightfastness and also be waterproof. i think people should take more care with pigment based inks and flush more regularly to keep the pen healthy and working well but i don't think that they irreversibly damage the pen.

[WirsPlm]

i have had 3 Konrads that i enjoyed. the piston broke on one and i have had some issues with poor ink flow due to letting their ink dry in the feed. the piston was able to be fixed up with tape and the clogging was fixed by flushing the feed in an ultrasonic cleaner. i think the Konrad needs to be used every day and flushed about once a week to keep it writing properly.

 

i do agree that noodler's inks are more prone to clogging than dye based inks. there are no dye based inks that can offer the same permanence in lightfastness and also be waterproof. i think people should take more care with pigment based inks and flush more regularly to keep the pen healthy and working well but i don't think that they irreversibly damage the pen.

Noodler's inks aren't pigment based (only the Sailor Carbon Nano inks are pigment based FP inks that I'm aware of), Noodler's ink are saturated dye inks and the increased dye load is why some people say they're higher maintenance.

[balson]

Noodler's inks aren't pigment based (only the Sailor Carbon Nano inks are pigment based FP inks that I'm aware of), Noodler's ink are saturated dye inks and the increased dye load is why some people say they're higher maintenance.

 

ah yes, my mistake, you are correct there.

[Water Ouzel]

Noodler's inks aren't pigment based (only the Sailor Carbon Nano inks are pigment based FP inks that I'm aware of), Noodler's ink are saturated dye inks and the increased dye load is why some people say they're higher maintenance.

Platinum offers blue, rose red and brown pigmented inks. I suppose their carbon black could be counted as a pigmented ink, too.

[FarmBoy]

Great read folks.

 

Glad to see the Noodlers Ink debate lingers just below the surface. A favorite topic of mine to watch.

[Mafia Geek]

I think the Noodlers pens are great for what they are intended for, a pen that can be customised with other nibs (vintage or otherwise) that holds a lot of ink, can be fully serviced by the owner, and can provide ink flow for flexing all at a low cost. They are not, I don't feel, intended as everyday use pens for all users. That's more the bill of the safaris etc, the Noodlers pens are for playing with. The fact that the pen can be fully taken apart to clean and dry to switch inks quickly is great, most pens have a slower turn around.

 

For me, the concern with the inks, and this is not just for Noodlers, is that the necessary surficants that need be added for the dye concentration and other chemicals to remain dissolved tends to settle over time. Now this wouldn't be a problem if the ink/pen is used regularly, but I don't use it often enough, so it's something that I don't want to worry about, so I use other inks. Now I've never had any problems in pens, only seen it in bottles that I have (and again, had happened in inks other than Noodlers) so I opted for the safe route. For the amount of people that use Noodlers inks, if there were serious regular problems, it would make it to the forum. The number of knowledgeable people that use the ink make me think it is safe for the right users.

 

I trust Richard to know what he is taking about, but the ink that he recommends (waterman) I have had a lot of problems with leaking in some pens so don't use that either.

[WirsPlm]

Platinum offers blue, rose red and brown pigmented inks. I suppose their carbon black could be counted as a pigmented ink, too.

Oops, I forgot about those (and now I'm curious about why the Asian brands the only people coming up with pigmented inks), but the point that Noodler's isn't pigmented still stands.

[Drone]

Hi iRabb, I think we've discussed the Noodler's pens on one or two other threads here on the FPN. I'm sorry to hear you're still facing problems. Allow me to reiterate my experience with Noodler's inks and pens...

 

I have purchased my share of Noodler's pens, mostly Ahabs and Konrads. Discounting the pens that had out-of-the-box serious mechanical manufacturing defects such as an improperly molded section in one of my Ahabs, and another Ahab that came with a feed that was so small in diameter it wouldn't even hold the nib securely - all the Noodler's pens I purchased would NOT write well at all out-of-the-box.

 

That said, once I took my time and hacked the feed and tuned the nib/feed combination; in one case that including heat-setting the nib/feed. Eventually I have been able to make every single Noodler's pen work perfectly, even when flexing like crazy. This is also true for the Ahab and Konrad pens with nibs that I modified (ground) for even more flex.

 

Now every ink I've tried works just fine with the Ahabs and Konrads, and I've tried at least a dozen different ink colors in brands such as Noodler's, Pilot/Namiki, Diamine, Private Reserve, Sheaffer's, Parker, & Mont Blanc. I don't have any flow, start, or dry-out issues at all. The nibs on these pens are gushers, especially when flexed. I attribute the excellent ink flow to the lack of issues.

 

The Noodler's pens are now pure joy to use. But it did take a lot of time and work to get there. I just stuck with it, sought and found help here on the FPN, and REFUSED to let the pens beat me! Finally, the ornery Noodler's pens succumbed - and have been obedient servants ever since. (Yes, that's the sound of my pen-whip cracking in the background.)

 

Don't give in... Otherwise the pens will own YOU - not the other way 'round.

[flyingfox]

My personal experience with Konrad is not the best. I tried everything that I read on FPN, used several different inks including the ones by Noodler, Pelikan, and Waterman, and the pen is either too dry to write or blobs... I just got too fed up, and now it is resting in my pen box.

 

OTOH I have several Nib Creapers... their cheapest pen. I initially bought one to use with Bad Blue Heron. Figured- since the pen can be completely disassembled and washed, it won't be a big deal if it clogs or stains permanently. Turns out it is a fantastic writer. This one sometimes becomes a hard starter if I don't write with it daily, but the issue is more with the ink than the pen. I just like the color of the ink too much to give it up completely.

 

Then- I bought two more Creapers, one exclusively for 54th Mass. (for the same reason as above) and one more just because it was on sale. They all perform perfectly well, right out of the box. The "free agent" pen got matched with several different inks (by Noodler and others) and have never had any problem. I mostly use 54th Mass. to address envelopes, so it doesn't get used everyday, and still no problem.

 

So- my guess is I just had a freak bad luck with Konrad (although enough people reported similar problems) and should give it one more try. But figured- since I have enough great writers, no need to push my luck....

 

Incidentally, I have several Noodler's ink (aside from the two mentioned above, Black Swan in Australian Roses, Ottoman Azure, Manhattan Blue, Pinstripe Homage, Ellis Island, a couple more exclusive ones from FPH that I haven't gotten around to use yet, and a few sample vials.) I haven't had any significant problems so far, and can totally see myself getting more in the future. YMMV

[Bo Bo Olson]

Richard, Rick and a couple of the Big boys warn of Noodlers. One of the other Big Boy's showed a melted feed. They are not guaranteeing their work in Noodlers ink.

 

There are very many Noodlers inks, 3-400 of them. They are all high maintenance inks....clean every 1-2 weeks.

Some one here is blaming Richard....for stating.. some Noodlers inks, melted feeds, but has not researched what some of the more respectable pen repair men have found...it melted feeds.

That reminds me, I got to go clean my Ahab, it's got a Noodler's ink in and I've not cleaned it in nearly 3 weeks!!! I don't want to , then and . For treating it like a Waterman or Pelikan ink.

 

By the way, doing or having Angel Wings done to the semi-flex and there for hard to use as a Flex pen, into Easy Full Flex, which is the first stage of 'flex' nibs.

I see no reason that would not work with a Konrad nib too.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[CAG_1787]

Richard, Rick and a couple of the Big boys warn of Noodlers. One of the other Big Boy's showed a melted feed. They are not guaranteeing their work in Noodlers ink.

 

There are very many Noodlers inks, 3-400 of them. They are all high maintenance inks....clean every 1-2 weeks.

Some one here is blaming Richard....for stating.. some Noodlers inks, melted feeds, but has not researched what some of the more respectable pen repair men have found...it melted feeds.

That reminds me, I got to go clean my Ahab, it's got a Noodler's ink in and I've not cleaned it in nearly 3 weeks!!! I don't want to , then and . For treating it like a Waterman or Pelikan ink.

 

By the way, doing or having Angel Wings done to the semi-flex and there for hard to use as a Flex pen, into Easy Full Flex, which is the first stage of 'flex' nibs.

I see no reason that would not work with a Konrad nib too.

Hi, Bo Bo! Can you link to the source for the melted feed? In the past, I have taken exception to Richard's opposition to the inks without pictorial support for his position, so if there are pictures out there, I'd like to see them. I've used Noodler's inks for years now without the slightest problem, so I'm trying to balance out my positive experiences with concrete evidence of the negative experiences, so I can have the most accurate understanding. Thanks!

[Bo Bo Olson]

I can't link you, but I read in the small print of Rick's com about his problems, but think the picture is on one of those guys named Mike who do nib work. Maybe the one who re-tips.

 

That was one ugly picture....but it might have just been plastic, not ebonite like on Noodler's pens.

I believe it is seldom to get an ebonite feed outside of Indian pens....shame, they are reputed to be better feeds.

 

Well, I only have two Noodlers inks, living in German it costs €19/$25 for a bottle so that is a bit expensive. Golden brown, my slowest drying ink, and Apache Sunset is the other. I had the Goulet's deliver to my motel in the states, got there before I did, or an hour or two later.

[Drone]

Richard, Rick and a couple of the Big boys warn of Noodlers. One of the other Big Boy's showed a melted feed. They are not guaranteeing their work in Noodlers in.

 

I've read (third hand) and heard of this too. All I can say is I've been using Noodler's inks for ages without a single problem. Albeit I tend to stay away from the more permanent versions of Noodler's ink.

 

Some inks with special properties require special care, regardless of who makes them. The "Bullet Proof" inks may stain due to their very nature - permanence. Diamine Ancient Copper is another that comes to mind. Ancient Copper has inclusions (solids) in emulsion that have been known to precipitate and/or cake up in a dry nib.

 

I don't think you can just step out and blame a whole line of inks from a single company like Noodler's for consistently creating "problems" - if that's what is actually happening.

 

In order for ink to "melt" a feed, it seems to me there would have to be a foreign or unwanted solvent of some sort involved, not so much the ink's pH, especially with a plastic feed.

 

BTW, the Konrad and Ahab pens use the same nib and feed. There is only a slight difference in how the nib mounts, the Ahab has an indent for the nib, the Konrad doesn't. There is another small difference between the two pens, the Konrad doesn't have a breather tube, the Ahab does. Some report removing the breather tube from the Ahab can improve ink flow. I have not experienced this myself.

 

So- my guess is I just had a freak bad luck with Konrad (although enough people reported similar problems) and should give it one more try.

 

Yes, don't let the pen beat you. At this point you have nothing to lose. Go at the feed and hack again for more flow, if that's your problem (it usually is). Try heat-setting the feed and nib.

 

Once you tame the pen, you'll appreciate it more because of your accomplishment.

[AndrewC]

Well, I'm not gonna comment on the whole Noodler's thing. Just thought I'd mention that if you want a good flex/semi-flex pen, look for some vintage Waterman's pens. They'll run about twice and half what a Konrad or Ahab might run, but they sure do what they are supposed to do well. Let's face it, Nathan came up with his flex nibs as a way to approximate the vintage pens. I have maybe 10-12 Waterman pens with nibs of varying flex, and love each and every one. A couple cost around $90, the rest were under that. Picked up a set at an antique store for $35. That one has a flex stub. Still had the sticker on it, too.

Here's a few-

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t62/AndrewEC/30sWatermans009.jpg

Writing samples from some

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t62/AndrewEC/WatermansforSale031.jpg

Some others

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t62/AndrewEC/PSFFamilesFisforCheapPArkersFS036.jpg

I apologize for the writing and image quality, but you can see what these can do...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t62/AndrewEC/PSFFamilesFisforCheapPArkersFS027.jpg

Skip the frustration. Spend a bit more. Get the real deal. They appear often on the sales board here.

[Nonsensical]

I have heard of the notorious melted feeds, but having had firsthand experience (my mum has no concept of pen hygiene) of leaving Noodlers Bulletproof Black in pens for 6-9 months at a time without cleaning, refilling or doing any maintenance of any kind, I feel pretty safe using that ink in my pens. I know that at the very least a Pilot 78G can survive over 12 months with Noodlers Black in it without needing anything other than a soak to make it work again... Not that I would advocate such treatment for any FP.

 

Naturally, for pens like Parker Vacs which are both vintage and have a certain amount of transparency, I'm much more careful about which inks I use in them. In fact, I wouldn't even consider using certain colours, much less certain brands.

[Kugelschreiber]

Now every ink I've tried works just fine with the Ahabs and Konrads, and I've tried at least a dozen different ink colors in brands such as Noodler's, Pilot/Namiki, Diamine, Private Reserve, Sheaffer's, Parker, & Mont Blanc. I don't have any flow, start, or dry-out issues at all. The nibs on these pens are gushers, especially when flexed. I attribute the excellent ink flow to the lack of issues.

 

How did you manage this? Even when I've gotten my Ahabs and Konrads writing well, I've still had dry-out issues.

[iRabb]

Drone, I hear what you are saying, but it just doesn't sweeten my tea. I know, for example, that if I crash an R/C heli, it means doing repairs. It's part of the hobby, unless you have the $$ to have it done for you, and because I don't, this fumble-fingered rabbi learned to repair helis.

 

Straight razors—if you're into them, you know that none of them (to my knowledge) comes out of the box sharp enough to shave with. Sharp enough to cut your face to ribbons, yes, but not sharp enough to shave with. So you buy your straight razor from a source that either automatically hones every razor before shipping it, or you buy it without that service knowing you'll hone it yourself.

 

With fountain pens, I want it to work properly right out of the box. Cutting the feed is too fine a job for my eyes and hands. Don't get me wrong—I'm absolutely impressed by what you have been able to do, but I really don't have the time nor the skill nor the desire to tame the Ahab. It is a shame, because in certain colors, I find the bodies quite beautiful.

 

If the Ahab was a popular R/C heli, a third party manufacturer would be producing feeds, and maybe nibs, that would simply interchange with the stock feed and work perfectly. If they sold that perfectly working feed for $10, half the cost of the entire Ahab, I would buy up Ahabs and feeds and for $30 have a few handsome, working pens. Unfortunately, this is not the heli industry and I do not know if there is a business interested in making a feed for the Ahab that simply works out of the box. For me, that is the bottom line. I want to open the box to find a pen that has passed somebody's QC, not one where I am expected to do the final tuning of the pen. I can't give a half-written sermon to my congregation and say that it is designed for them to tinker with and make it work for themselves. Why should Natan Tardiff get to do it with his pens, while he has the hubris to say on his on-site video that it is really as good as a $200 pen?

 

Ben

[brunico]

There are very many Noodlers inks, 3-400 of them. They are all high maintenance inks....clean every 1-2 weeks.

 

Seriously, Bo Bo, you've tested them all? Or are you doing your bit to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt across the internet?

 

I've run Zhivago - which is largely bulletproof black - for months at a time in different pens, with no flushing between fills and no problems. Most of the Noodler's inks I have don't take any more time to rinse out than average, and sometimes they take less. Even when they do take more, flushing a section under a cold tap for two minutes rather than one hardly counts as high-maintenance.

 

We're talking about fountain pen ink, not Maris Crane.