Zombie Companies?

[Inkling13]

What are your thoughts on this matter? When a company falls on hard times and dissapears into obscurity, and is bought up by someone ressurrects it, claiming to be the "original" company. Examples?

Kaweco, Onoto, Moleskine, are some of the companies that I can think of. The Palmino Blackwing pencil is another example of something resurrected, claiming to be the same product as before.

 

Here's my thoughts on the matter: If you are going to make a simmilar product, don't claim to be the same company, especially if everything from the past company had been dissolved. The only thing linking the old and the new, seems to be the name, with designs and styles borrowed from the dead company. The people who made the original are not making the new ones. I would think that if you could make a product that could compare to the ones of old, why not make your own name instead of riding on the name of others?

[Aysedasi]

But if the product is as good (perhaps even better) than the original and is faithful and true to the original principles? What's the difference to a company just being sold on lock stock and barrel......? The 'zombie' description could well be harsh - to some companies at least....Not making out any particular case (no axe to grind), just playing DA.....

Edited January 25, 2014 by Aysedasi

[JonSzanto]

I think Syd Saperstein's rebirth of the Wahl-Eversharp brand is a very good example of how to make this happen. There are other companies, currently in business, that have not done it as well or with such respect to the former company.

 

I agree with the previous assertion as well: zombie is a tad pejorative for most any of this.

Edited January 25, 2014 by JonSzanto

[jar]

Do you know of an example of such a company that claims it is the old company?

[Vendome]

Do you know of an example of such a company that claims it is the old company?

 

Onoto.

 

The name was bought in 2004 and they state in their sales brochure that they have a 100 year pedigree, (as the original company was founded in 1905). That's a bit naughty and misleading, as they briefly mention that the original went out of business in 1958, so really the (new) business has a 10 year pedigree.

[jar]

 

Onoto.

 

The name was bought in 2004 and they state in their sales brochure that they have a 100 year pedigree, (as the original company was founded in 1905). That's a bit naughty and misleading, as they briefly mention that the original went out of business in 1958, so really the (new) business has a 10 year pedigree.

 

I thought they said that Onoto has a 100 year pedigree?

[The Blue Knight]

I don't 100% agree with it but virtually every company is like this today take Parker an American company with has a large amount of British history is now being made by Waterman in France. Are Parker pens just Watermans with arrow clips?

 

The same can be said for Sheaffer and Cross to name but a few.

 

As much as you'd like to buy Janesville Parker's or a Fort Madison Sheaffer's you have to realize that to own one you would have to pay a large premium as the fountain pen business has changed so much from the heyday.

 

 

So that I can engage with a passion I enjoy at I cost I can justify I have excepted these facts.

Edited January 26, 2014 by top pen

[Koyote]

What are your thoughts on this matter? When a company falls on hard times and dissapears into obscurity, and is bought up by someone ressurrects it, claiming to be the "original" company. Examples?

Kaweco, Onoto, Moleskine, are some of the companies that I can think of. The Palmino Blackwing pencil is another example of something resurrected, claiming to be the same product as before.

 

Here's my thoughts on the matter: If you are going to make a simmilar product, don't claim to be the same company, especially if everything from the past company had been dissolved. The only thing linking the old and the new, seems to be the name, with designs and styles borrowed from the dead company. The people who made the original are not making the new ones. I would think that if you could make a product that could compare to the ones of old, why not make your own name instead of riding on the name of others?

 

A company name is typically trademarked, and that means that it can be sold -- and it has value if the company has/had a positive reputation. So, it is going to continue. And in the FP world, sometimes this has a nice result - as noted above by Jon.

[Vendome]

 

I thought they said that Onoto has a 100 year pedigree?

 

They (new Onoto) do state a 100 year pedigree, but seeing as the original Onoto went "(bleep) up" in 1958, (the same year that Elvis was conscripted into the army) it's stretching that claim a bit, what with the 46 year gap between resuming production in 2004.

[wastelanded]

Kaweco is a reborn company with no ties to the old one, but it doesn't try to pass itself off that way. The company's own timeline gives all the relevant names and dates.

[Joe in Seattle]

Conway-Stewart

[Florida Blue]

I think Syd Saperstein's rebirth of the Wahl-Eversharp brand is a very good example of how to make this happen. There are other companies, currently in business, that have not done it as well or with such respect to the former company.

 

That's a good point.

 

I don't mind that some companies are trading under a resurrected brand if their products live up to the ones produced when the company was formerly in business.

 

Some good examples that I can think of are:

ONOTO

Conway Stewart

Astoria

Conklin (I really like the fact that they are still being made in Ohio)

 

A not-so-good example:

Mabie Todd

 

I don't 100% agree with it but virtually every company is like this today take Parker an American company with has a large amount of British history is now being made by Waterman in France. Are Parker pens just Watermans with arrow clips?

 

That's a fair point, especially when you consider modern day reinterpretations of classic pens.

 

Modern Parker Duofolds, Sheaffer Legacies (an homage to the PFM), Pelikans, MB 149s are far removed from their vintage counterparts.

 

However, companies like Parker and Waterman have long histories of being bought and sold and of manufacturing their pens in many different countries and factories around the world.

 

Todays Waterman "Paris" has little to do with Waterman that was started in 1884 in New York City by Lewis Edson Waterman. The present company traces it's roots back to Waterman's French subsidiary Jif Waterman who bought out the American parent company in 1954 after it went bankrupt.

 

Parker followed a similar trajectory. The Newhaven management bought out the struggling American parent company in 1986 and sold Parker to Gillette in 1993. Even before Newhaven shut down in 2010 Parker was making pens in France as far back as the 1950s and they opened a factory in Meru, France in the 1970s. The Meru factory made the later 75s, some 45s, the 35, 65, 85, Premier and the original Sonnet among others.

[Inkling13]

I don't 100% agree with it but virtually every company is like this today take Parker an American company with has a large amount of British history is now being made by Waterman in France. Are Parker pens just Watermans with arrow clips?

 

The same can be said for Sheaffer and Cross to name but a few.

 

As much as you'd like to buy Janesville Parker's or a Fort Madison Sheaffer's you have to realize that to own one you would have to pay a large premium as the fountain pen business has changed so much from the heyday.

 

 

So that I can engage with a passion I enjoy at I cost I can justify I have excepted these facts.

But ALL of the great American pen companies have been sold into conglomerates from nothing other than pure commercial greed. They have a heritage that is still continuous, it just hasn't been the same owners. The production just moved, It's just a shame that we Americans couldn't have kept them in our own hands, especially with the rise in the "domestic luxury" market. What I'm saying is that a dead company has been resurrected for nothing other than its name. Anyone with enough know how in machining and manufacturing can make a run of fountain pens, without having to build much of anything. Making pen bodies is rather simple, since even roller balls can use the same body, but to make a nib? it seems that this is outsourced more often than not. If you don't make the whole pen, can you really claim that you make a pen at all? I can fire up my lathe and bang out a pen, but the thing is, I didn't make the nib, the most important part. What did I make? a pen body... thats about it. Same with a company like Kaweco. They don't make pens... just pen bodies. The company now has no ties to the company that was there originally, without a transition. They may look like Kaweco of old, but the spirit seems to be gone...

[basterma]

My gripe for this is what Pelikan has done to Geha. They killed off all their pens and now make a folded nib bottom-of-the-market student pen. Yes Geha had a proprietary cartridge that was a pain. but ti bring back an old brand as an inferior pen really irks me.

[jar]

 

They (new Onoto) do state a 100 year pedigree, but seeing as the original Onoto went "(bleep) up" in 1958, (the same year that Elvis was conscripted into the army) it's stretching that claim a bit, what with the 46 year gap between resuming production in 2004.

The pens in circulation still worked or did they stop working during the hiatus?

[Dr.Slackware]

http://www.onoto.com/luxury-pens/the-onoto-heritage-plunger-filler/the-onoto-heritage

 

Look at that bottle of ink!

<spoiler>

diamine.

</spoiler>

[Aysedasi]

Just like a bottle of Conway Stewart.........

[brunico]

http://www.onoto.com/luxury-pens/the-onoto-heritage-plunger-filler/the-onoto-heritage

 

Look at that bottle of ink!

<spoiler>

diamine.

</spoiler>

 

 

For anyone who thinks Diamine is a bit too common for their luxury plunger, they can order Onoto ink at nearly twice the price of the own-label stuff!

 

Bottled exclusively for Onoto by one of England’s oldest ink manufacturers, this range of inks is the perfect partner for your Onoto pen.

 

Well yes, Diamine doesn't slap Onoto labels on the bottles for anyone else, and that particular range of seven colours it makes available only to Onoto. Everyone else carries those seven colours plus the other ninety-odd.

 

Brazen, eh? Onoto didn't even have the decency to disguise Woodland Green as Forest Viridian or some such.

 

 

 

Just like a bottle of Conway Stewart.........

 

Good catch! But in their defence, they're not much more dearer than Diamine, and they're special colours, and Conway Stewart actually allow the name of Diamine on the page. Onoto is starting to look a little shady.

Edited January 26, 2014 by brunico

[Aysedasi]

 

 

Good catch! But in their defence, they're not much more dearer than Diamine, and they're special colours, and Conway Stewart actually allow the name of Diamine on the page. Onoto is starting to look a little shady.

True - and the only one I have - Tavy Blue - is very nice indeed.....

[brunico]

True - and the only one I have - Tavy Blue - is very nice indeed.....

 

Just had a look - it is very nice, and I'm generally lukewarm about blue inks.

 

Perfect for underlining with the Onoto silver six-inch ruler, yours for... drum roll... £480!