Pelikan St Nibs

[mark e]

are they this rare?>>>>

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281221195118?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

or is market common-sense rarer?

 

dont get me wrong, i love my pel 140 with your basic run-o-mill late 50's M nib, but i wouldnt pay much more than $60 for it (again)

 

that must be one really nice, and rare nib

 

 

[Scribblesoften]

Someone must have really wanted that pen.

[playtime]

hard to say. The Steno nib was made for a number of years, vs, say the EEF, BBB, or OBBB nibs (each for 13 months) according to the 1st edition of Pelikan Schreibgerate; of course, numerous lots of EEF/BBB/OBBB nibs coud have been made in that short period of time, and only a handful of Steno nibs in those years.

 

But people do report that Pelikan steno nibs (for the 140/400/400nn) were more elastic than other Pelikan nibs of that time - and hence the premium price earned on that ebay offer. The purported elasticity of the nib is certainly believable - the previous line of nibs, the ones fit for the 100 and 100n - also included a steno (EEF and EF) nib that was advertised as especially elastic vis a vis other EEF/EF Pelikan nibs of that time. See Ruettinger: http://www.ruettinger-web.de/e-pelikan-federn-100.html, in the section "Other Standard Nibs", just above the "Specimans of Writing", where we see the following: "Stenogrpahers' Nibs........very elastic nibs......."

Edited December 12, 2013 by playtime

[christof]

Yep, probably it was the nib that made the price. These are somewhat uncommon and can be really flexible. Have a look at here:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/220855-whats-up-at-christofs/?p=2395357

[Bo Bo Olson]

140 with your basic run-o-mill late 50's M nib,

 

My two 140's have wonderful semi-flex nibs, an OB and OF. Definitely not run of the mill.

 

Yep, I'm missing a steno nibbed pen.

 

I'll look for a sale with out the box, and on German Ebay, where prices are more reasonable than the Fools of America prices.

[proton007]

Yep, probably it was the nib that made the price. These are somewhat uncommon and can be really flexible. Have a look at here:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/220855-whats-up-at-christofs/?p=2395357

 

I was going to bid for one, but the seller's description confused me.

 

I'm not sure if he thought the ST nib was the DF nib, because he said they were meant for accounts, and hence will be hard.

 

Now I think I missed the chance to get a flexible nib

[mark e]

140 with your basic run-o-mill late 50's M nib,

 

My two 140's have wonderful semi-flex nibs, an OB and OF. Definitely not run of the mill.

 

Yep, I'm missing a steno nibbed pen.

 

I'll look for a sale with out the box, and on German Ebay, where prices are more reasonable than the Fools of America prices.

actually, i suppose i was a bit inaccurate in my description of my 140....i used the term 'run o the mill' as in, i assume most pelikan nibs are this dependable and smooth...i only have this one pelikan....it doesnt make any big statements, like my waterman #2 full flex nibs, but it's just so easy to use

it's my main pen---if i have a lot of writing to do, and especially speed-writing, i use the 140, because it is so smooth, easy and just the right amount of flow and wetness, and it is also my signature pen---and it isnt picky what ink is in it, either

i guess i should go make up to it now

[mark e]

I was going to bid for one, but the seller's description confused me.

 

I'm not sure if he thought the ST nib was the DF nib, because he said they were meant for accounts, and hence will be hard.

 

Now I think I missed the chance to get a flexible nib

the description confused me, too, for the same reason you mentioned...i actually did bid on it, but only half-heartedly, as i wasnt sure about it...as it turned out, i wouldnt have bid anywhere near as much as the winning bid....maybe half that

 

but at least i learned something, i wasnt even aware of the ST nib previously, it was probably the first one i had seen on ebay in about 5yrs of watching pelikan pens

[Bo Bo Olson]

Mark E,

I usually point folks at a 140, a Geha 790 or an Osmia with a # in the Diamond on the nib (or Osmia-F-C) as sure semi-flex pens.

 

I do like them, having some 26 or so. They add a bit of flare to the first letter and perhaps the last with out having to do anything. I like the nice springy ride...make that nice fast springy ride. They can be used by the Ham Fisted...too. One of the reasons I recommend them is for that, so one can learn to have a lighter Hand before moving up the flex ladder.

 

Many to most are a bit wet ...so often flood the shading. There are here and there dry semi-flex nibs that one either saves for wet inks or uses for shading ink. A dry ink like Pelikan can tame a semi-flex if you find it a bit wet.

 

I also like the 120 and the Geha school kid* pens...as nice springy regular flex nibs with 1/2 a width narrower vintage width and line sharpness. Some times vintage regular flex F or M, shades better than semi-flex.

 

*2 Geha school kid pens that looked similar, had a different screw in nib section, that didn't work with the other. I'd saved a FK**nib @ like the 120, in some one sent me a pen body for a few Geha FK nibs. Eventually he had to send me a nib that fit and it was 'flexi' to my vast surprise. I had heard of semi-flex Geha school pens...but find I could well be wrong with my assumption....they had gotten a nice vintage springy nib...and mistook one for the other.

 

**Fine Kugle= American bump under....in a time where many German pens were very flat and stubbish with minimum 'Iridium'.

A Kugle nib was usually flat underneath like a regular nib and the round ball on the back of the nib...with a round point for those who liked to hold a fountain pen like a pencil.....the Ball Point had landed...but a true Kugle nib was made for pencil hold users.

If you hold it low, it gave a similar pattern as a normal fountain pen...hold it high and it can be used by modern cross over users.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Mark E,

I usually point folks at a 140, a Geha 790 or an Osmia with a # in the Diamond on the nib (or Osmia-F-C) as sure semi-flex pens.

 

I do like them, having some 26 or so. They add a bit of flare to the first letter and perhaps the last with out having to do anything. I like the nice springy ride...make that nice fast springy ride. They can be used by the Ham Fisted...too. One of the reasons I recommend them is for that, so one can learn to have a lighter Hand before moving up the flex ladder.

 

Many to most are a bit wet ...so often flood the shading. There are here and there dry semi-flex nibs that one either saves for wet inks or uses for shading ink. A dry ink like Pelikan can tame a semi-flex if you find it a bit wet.

 

I also like the 120 and the Geha school kid* pens...as nice springy regular flex nibs with 1/2 a width narrower vintage width and line sharpness. Some times vintage regular flex F or M, shades better than semi-flex.

 

*2 Geha school kid pens that looked similar, had a different screw in nib section, that didn't work with the other. I'd saved a FK**nib @ like the 120, in some one sent me a pen body for a few Geha FK nibs. Eventually he had to send me a nib that fit and it was 'flexi' to my vast surprise. I had heard of semi-flex Geha school pens...but find I could well be wrong with my assumption....they had gotten a nice vintage springy nib...and mistook one for the other.

 

**Fine Kugle= American bump under....in a time where many German pens were very flat and stubbish with minimum 'Iridium'.

A Kugle nib was usually flat underneath like a regular nib and the round ball on the back of the nib...with a round point for those who liked to hold a fountain pen like a pencil.....the Ball Point had landed...but a true Kugle nib was made for pencil hold users.

If you hold it low, it gave a similar pattern as a normal fountain pen...hold it high and it can be used by modern cross over users.

[chelydra]

A few years back I bought an ST 400N from a German lady. It was a graduation gift in 1960; she wasn't interested, but thought she might get around to trying it out eventually. It waited patiently in her bureau drawer for the next fifty years. The price on ebay.de came to about 90 euros. It's my dream pen, like riding a spirited racehorse across open country, but has temperamental periods, and fussing with the nib position isn't always enough to bring it back. When it does revive (and I never can remember what trick finally brought it around), it's awesome. Never dry or scratchy, never wet or clogged, flying across the page in swirls and spirals so fast my thoughts can never keep up with it — then I discover all sorts of new ideas when I read what the pen wrote, with a mind of its own. These ideas are more often abstract arabesques than legible words, but they're far more interesting and entertaining and expressive than words.

 

Around the same time I also found a 100N with a gold KEF nib — almost as amazing to write with, and draw with, and phenomenally rugged and reliable. It never gets moody, never balks or hesitates. These two pens were so perfect I gave away all the other nice vintage Pelikans to my writing and drawing students, and never looked back. I occasionally browsed the Pelikans on various eBay sites as a pastime with no serious intent of buying anything else, until about a month ago I saw there were several ST's on offer, and I got two of them, first a 100 with the wartime CN nickel-alloy nib, and then (feeling greedy and extravagant) a 400.

 

I've read that every vintage Pelikan nib has its own distinct character but never understood what that meant until now. Both of these new acquisitions are fine pens, but neither one is magical or awe-inspiring. The CN-nibbed 100 is barely flexible at all, and writes with a bit of friction, although it does say ST — it's almost as if were designed for one of the other stenographic (shorthand) systems that doesn't call for line variations. The 400 is just too wet, depositing little puddles as it writes, bleeding through notebook pages. I suppose I'll keep them and see what happens. I also just picked up an Aurora 88 from eBay.it and after a very shaky start, it's behaving beautifully and has more of the qualities I was looking for—not much line variation, but it thinks very well, based on what it's written so far.

 

The moral of the story:

A vintage Pelikan with an ST nib will indeed be the holy grail for anyone serious about their pen-work, but ONLY if it happens to be exactly the RIGHT ST nib. I was very lucky with that first one, and with the KEF too. Both are writing perfectly at present. (The temperamental 400N is like a pet cat who gets miffed and stand-offish when she doesn't get constant, affectionate attention — as long as I keep her inked up and stroke her nicely as often as I can, she's almost miraculously responsive.)

 

I'll update this if the other ST's start to evolve into full-fledged holy grail pens, and will add a sampling of swirls and scribbles from each if I ever get around to it.

 

Advice: the KEF (gold postwar) nib is a gem; if mine is typical of the breed, it's probably the best buy. It has all the virtues of an ST (just less of the magic) and none of the drawbacks. And while ST's are now catching on and much sought-after, the KEF is probably still a sleeper, and may be available for not much more than an F or M nib will cost you.

 

 

 

 

[waalko]

I just bought a 400NN with St steno nib on the bay. After I received it, I will share a review in comparison with a Waterman Pink #7 and Binderized M200 nib.

[Scribblesoften]

I just bought a 400NN with St steno nib on the bay. After I received it, I will share a review in comparison with a Waterman Pink #7 and Binderized M200 nib.

I am looking forward to your comparison.

[k_sze]

Reviving this topic:

 

Was the 400NN Merz & Krell version ever produced with an ST nib? If not, would an ST nib from the original Günther Wagner version (just the nib, excluding the feed assembly) fit in the M&K version?

[stoen]

Hi, Pelikan stenography nibs were serially made for their pens up to the sixties, as a no surcharge order option, AFAIK.

 

I have a M&K 400NN with a EF flexible nib, which is partly comparable to ST. I’m not aware if they made ST nibs for 400NN. I never came across one.

 

Although physically similar to 1964 Pelikan nibs, they are not compatible. Feed & Collar diameters and inner part  curvatures of the nib itself are different and ca. 0.5 mm narrower.

 

I judge this difference is too much to make a M&K 400NN nib unit with a GW nib withouut risk of breaking everything.

 

Here’a a link:

 

https://thepelikansperch.com/2014/10/05/merz-krell-who-were-they/

 

Hope this can help.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I ran into an ST nib...........that was nothing to write home about, a regular flex and nothing more.

So I didn't bid on that pen at a live auction.

[k_sze]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:46 PM, stoen said:

Hi, Pelikan stenography nibs were serially made for their pens up to the sixties, as a no surcharge order option, AFAIK.

 

I have a M&K 400NN with a EF flexible nib, which is partly comparable to ST. I’m not aware if they made ST nibs for 400NN. I never came across one.

 

Although physically similar to 1964 Pelikan nibs, they are not compatible. Feed & Collar diameters and inner part  curvatures of the nib itself are different and ca. 0.5 mm narrower.

 

I judge this difference is too much to make a M&K 400NN nib unit with a GW nib withouut risk of breaking everything.

 

Here’a a link:

 

https://thepelikansperch.com/2014/10/05/merz-krell-who-were-they/

 

Hope this can help.

I see. Thanks for the clarifications.

[stoen]

On 4/9/2021 at 5:55 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

 

I ran into an ST nib...........that was nothing to write home about, a regular flex and nothing more.

 

Please, pardon my “reheating” the thread after a year or so.

🙂

 

I agree with @Bo Bo Olson’s finding. Meanwhile I’ve run into a number of ST nibs, two of which were extraordinary indeed, one in a 101N, one in a 400NN. I ‘ve learned few things and hope you don’t mind sharing my experience.

 

Both knowledge and personal experience count equally in my evaluating nibs, one can’t do without the other. 

 

Firstly, I can’t fully agree with the frequently elaborated thought that there was nothing special about vintage Pelikan pens and their flexibility. The Pelikan pens offered a wide variety of nib performance, as can be seen in their charts, from manifold, through hard, to flexible, throughout their “classical” period (1929-65):

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/365910-chart-of-vintage-pelikan-nib-choices/

 

Secondly, neither of my ST nibs was the softest or the flexiest nor even the extra-finest among Pelikan nibs when writing without pressure. Their specific qualityies had more to do with a particular springiness, and having been forged and tempered to endure decades of pressure variation stress without developing material fatigue. I have few Pelikan nibs which are flexier than the ST ones.

 

In my findings, the ST designation as such is not what makes a nib a “holy grail”. What makes it is rather a synergy of writing control, nib unit performance, ink flow control, and overall feel of a pen. My favorites are:

 

A 100 w. OBB nib

A 100 w. “windrose” B nib

A 100 w. EF nib

A 100N with flexible O7 nib

A 101N w. ST nib

A 400 w. ultra flexible O8 nib

A 400N w. OF nib

 

 

Quote

I've read that every vintage Pelikan nib has its own distinct character but never understood what that meant until now.

 

Yes, I had to accept that two vintage nibs of same designation, no matter how well the osmiridium tip preserved, still show some variation in character, no matter how slightly having been used. The “previous owner’s” writing habits aren’t exclusively to blame. 

I guess there is a fair amount of variation in hand-finished nibs…

 

I never know before I try. Therefore I also suggest to the reader to write as much as practical using a wide variety of nibs in order to develop own insight and preferences.

 

Hope this can help

[Bo Bo Olson]

Mine is a marked SN nib that wasn't up to late '30-65 era snuff.

It was not semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex much less the superlex I had hoped it would be. 

It was a regular flex like a 120, or the '82-97 semi-vintage gold nibs or the 150-200's steel nibs.

 

I have a superflex Easy Full Flex post war 100n that will do 5 X....I've 7-9 other brands in Easy Full Flex; the first stage superflex. an Easy 5-6 X tine spread.

I also have a maxi, 400n OF and a maxi 500 eyeballed OBBB because the rolled gold piston cap would cover nib width and nib marked width didn't start coming in until late '54. I have such a transition 400. That 500 is an OBBB, 30 degree grind maxi-semi-flex.

I've a slew of run of the mill semi-flex (5-6 in Pelikan).........................and one nail's nail Pelikan D nib.

 

I have some 35 semi-flex and 15 maxi-semi-flex in various brands.

 

I do have three Wet Noodles.....and lately a MB pre'23 with a Weak Kneed Wet Noodle, a term invented by the English nib grinder Johan Sowobada (sp)

 

 

So I had bad luck with my SF nib.....and my CN nib.

 

I do have for me an odd '55-65 semi-flex 400NN that is not a stub!!  A KF...kugle underneath like an American pens....I call that sort that happens on a few of my German '60's semi-flex American Bump Under pens.

 

""""

A 100 w. OBB nib

A 100 w. “windrose” B nib....don't know what a windrose nib is...............

A 100 w. EF nib

My 100 won in a live auction lot, had a broken tine regular flex CN nib. It was with a whole regular flex CN nib. that wasn't as flexible as so many report. Such a disappointment, not even semi-flex. Just regular flex like a 120 or 200.

A 100N with flexible O7 nib????....nor an O7 nib.................my guess is a very large nib. Mine are middle sized in there was no marking of O5-6-7-8 anywhere.  Mine has a tiny K on it and I eyeball the nib as a K...EF....superflex 5 X as mentioned.  ....(My Osmia pens have nib size, 2 or 3 and so on on some of tthe semi-flex ones, no size markings on the Supra nibs, their mostly maxi-semi-flex nibs)....none that I've noticed on any of my Pelikan's or Gehas.

A 101N w. ST nib.................my ST nib is not better than the 150/200's nibs so I have no pen to put it in. I do have a few semi-flex and a few Easy Full Flex nibs that would have first call if they fit.

A 400 w. ultra flexible O8 nib .....nor an 08.... the largest nib?....My post war 100n which was made until '54 (as was the 400)has such an ultra flex nib...I call mine Easy Full Flex in it is not a Wet Noodle. your ultra flexible would be more than my maxi...so you could have an Easy Full Flex like the one I had on my 100n, which stopped production in '54 but there could have been nibs laying around.

A 400N w. OF nib.........................mine is a maxi-semi-flex.......or someone in The Old Corner Fountain Pen Shoppe could have changed nibs when the pen was bought.  That was back in the day of the normal expertly trained fountain pen salesman.

 

That is my theory of why there are 30 degree grinds in no company advertised such. In various brands I have from OBB to OF in both 15&30  (Not counting the OBBB Pelikan one I have only in 30 degree) degree grinds. I think the salesman asked do you want a bit more oblique...took the pen in the back room and ground from 15 to 30 degrees.

..............................................

My guess to why there are semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex nibs that are not advertised as that, outside of Osmia nibs. 1932 Degussa, the one and only gold and silver producer for Germany took over Osmia's nib factory for debt, and continued making the gold nib wheels for Osmia in both flex grades.

 

I would bet a case of beer that the other pen factories bought cheaper already rolled out to nib thickness gold wheels from Degussa also. I know they made besides Osmia nibs, their own brand marked nibs and the nibs of Geha and at the end for Soennecken also were made by Degussa. But why were no other company outside of Osmia's Supra nib, advertising 'maxi-semi-flex' nibs that I have from them. MB, Pelikan, Geha, and a few lesser ones.

A Degussa book keepers decision, of outside of Osmia, we will shove out the warehouse the  gold ribbon wheel we can make the most profit on be it a maxi or a semi gold ribbon wheel.  Cost of making the gold only. Don't try to develop a new market; take the money and run.

Or it was too fiddly for the other big boys of German pen making. .....

Any way I have Maxi-semi-flex nibs from Osmia, Pelikan, Geha and MB, and aprobably a couple other small companies.

Rupp made my first maxi-semi-flex nib and still most flexible of my maxis.  Rupp was a Heidelberg nib maker from 1922-70.

Thomas/Kaweco on the com; in his Fountain Pen museum has a large picture of Rupp and the rest of his worker posed in their work cloths outside Rupp's nib factory. Thomas, a fountain pen scholar  had to point out which worker was Rupp in he was a hands on boss, dressed to work, just like his workers.

Every time I bid on another pretty Rupp nibbed pen; I finished second all three times. I don't know if it was his nib deign or a Degussa accident with his maxi-semi-flex nib I have.

[stoen]

2 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

don't know what a windrose nib is...............

…

nor an O7 nib

Thanks for giving valuable information and for asking.

 

The naming convention for oblique grinding of classical period Pelikan nibs has changed several times in the production history. This is the thread explaining it, with chart scans:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/365910-chart-of-vintage-pelikan-nib-choices/

 

O9 was the finest (OEF)

O8 would have been OF, O7 -> OM

The boldest was O4 (OBBB).

 

 

The “windrose” nib is no nib size designation - it is an imprint on a batch of very early pre-1934 Pelikan 100 nibs, reputed for its quality, most likely outsourced. GW didn’t make their nibs then. 

 

The “windrose” B nib….

 

… and its 1931/2 pen…

🙂