Recommendation For A Sturdy Embossing Tool

[sherlock_tomes]

I've searched around, and I don't seem to be coming up with good results on this question. I'd like to get an embossing machine to emboss a simple design and lettering on stationery, like a notary's embossing tool, but I'd also like for it to be strong enough to emboss a moderate-weight printmaking paper (~250 gsm).

 

I don't know a lot about these machines -- are the embossing seals easily interchangeable, or are you stuck with the size of a given manufacturer?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[bogiesan]

I knew a lawyer who had a collection of obsolete corporate seal machines. They were incredibly cool. Fully functional, terrific and complex designs from the 1890s through 20th Century. Sturdy, desk mounted mechanisms intended to work flawlessly for a long time. So I'd suggest you search for antique machines, probably for corporate seals, law office embossers, and, of course, much older notaries.

[sherlock_tomes]

Thanks, bogiesan. I saw one at an antique mall recently, which is part of what got me thinking about it. It wasn't clear how to change the seal in it, but I may go back and check.

 

My former college roommate, now a lawyer, uses an inked stamp for his notary seal. Just doesn't have the same panache...

[MisterBoll]

Although I've not used them this place looks very good -

http://www.fredlake.com/category.aspx?categoryID=6

 

I have spoken to them on the phone and will send them my artwork for a seal.

[sherlock_tomes]

Thanks for the link, that does look good. I like the page that shows you which embossers are best for given weights of paper. But as I feared, my requirements put me into the high-end section. I think I'll look around for vintage models, as suggested, and see if I can find one that allows swapping out the seals. Heading back to the antique mall this weekend...

[MisterBoll]

I'm going to place an order with Fred Lake tomorrow. I can report once I receive the seal.

[bogiesan]

Check your local yellow pages for rubber stamp manufacturers. They will have, or should have, a complete selection of demonstrators for seals and embossers of all types. The cast iron desk sets will be $300-500 depending on the nature of your die. Handheld units are $50-200 depedning on several factors.

Not many stamp shops can make custom die plates but many can these days. It's a laser process. The better deep-cut steel dies require some serious machining and are usually jobbed out. But you'll notice that many of the embossing systems use interchangeable clips; you only need one machine that will accept any number of die plates.

 

One word of caution...designing an embosser plate is not all that easy. You must take into account how the paper stock will deform.

 

And those flat pad inkers are very cool Get one that is uninked and then go to a rubber stamp hobby shop and select rubber stamp pad ink that fits into your collection of fountain pen inks.

[sherlock_tomes]

Thanks, bogiesan. As it happens, the antique mall had a handheld and a desk version; I got the handheld for $5, and have the other on hold while they get a price from the vendor. The handheld has only a negative disk and no backing on the other side (it's a clip that allows you to take the seal disk out -- currently from a real estate company in NY and dated 1965). I'm experimenting with different backings and papers to see what gives the best impression. So far it's been a layer of bicycle inner tube backed by cardboard (will post photos later). I imagine it's a standard sized clip that most manufacturers should be able to supply. Being of an experimental persuasion, I'm also curious whether there are casting methods or other possibilities for creating one's own seals. The idea of 3D printing occurred to me, for one thing...make seals, not guns! Having just received a good-sized stock of personalized stationery (Cranes, gold thermoset -- gorgeous), it occurred to me that I get bored too easily to want one design, or possibly even one address, to represent me for life. Being able to make seals as needed or desired might be an interesting project to research. Although I expect at the end of it I will wind up ordering something conventional. But I'm just enough of a nonconformist to want to checkout alternatives first.

 

Thanks for the tip about designs and paper deformation. I would imagine that large areas or numerous areas that were raised off center might cause problems...

[sherlock_tomes]

Well...not sure how well this is working. I don't have felt in the house -- not sure it would help. So far the inner tube backed with cardboard seems to work best on the different papers (Clairfontaine, Cranes, and some etching paper of unremembered vintage.

 

In most cases I pressed and locked the embossing machine under fairly high pressure (what I could do with my hand) for several minutes.

 

I get the feeling the seal is uneven, possibly warped from use, but the nature of the backing and the type of paper seems to have a large influence on the outcome. And the attached photos are the best efforts -- lots of variations did not work well at all. Any thoughts for other backing materials? Or is the lack of results possibly more due to the quality of the seal and/or the embossing machine?

 

I'll be curious what the desk version can do...

 

 

 

 

[my63]

I am no expert but I think half of your embossing die is missing mine has a positive and a negative plate,

Your press looks too far apart to work properly if you had the missing piece there would be just enough room to fit a piece of paper in.

Michael

[scrivelry]

I am no expert but I think half of your embossing die is missing mine has a positive and a negative plate,

Your press looks too far apart to work properly if you had the missing piece there would be just enough room to fit a piece of paper in.

Michael

I think that Michael is right, and that your press originally had another disk in it.

 

That said, I am intrigued by the results you got with two layers of inner tube. I think when you order dies to go in there you will get two and it will be a non-issue, but when you are experimenting possibly one would be easier to do, and this backing business will come in handy...

 

T

[bogiesan]

Cool stuff, Mr Tomes, keep 'em coming.

The negative die is essential for the embossing effect, no question. If you score a nice custom set of dies, you're off to experiment to find the ideal paper. My buddy with the collection often used a spray mister on his papers while demonstrating his more intricate embossers. Apparently they were used in a time when a certain type of paper was assumed to be in use at a certain social elevation of business communications. I presume the paper must have had very high cotton content. This would have been early 20th Century, say, 1920 to 1940.

 

Without the negative die, you're doing a deboss, just form the wrong side. There are several videos around the interwebs that show debossing in action. Of particular interest to you might be the clip on Moleskine's YouTube channel that shows the use of a die to deboss a fe thousand custom molies.

[sherlock_tomes]

Thanks, all. I assumed something was off, but I don't have enough experience of these things to know for sure. The desk version (for which I'm still waiting for a price) did have a negative and a positive, and the disks were a little larger. If I can make that deal happen, that might be the preferable machine for long-term use.

 

I was wondering about moistening the paper -- I would think it would slightly soften and swell the paper to allow for a better impression. The trick with the mister is good to hear, and something I will likely experiment with. And that's really what most of this is about to me. One of my mottoes: It's all experiment. Seems like there's lots to explore here.

 

I've started playing around with monogram designs. It may take me a while to get there (and for my pocketbook to recover from the customized stationery!), but it's an interesting topic. Wax seals (I completely futzed a couple of envelopes with some flaming wax, I'm afraid), embossing seals, ink stamps -- antiques and modern, Western and Eastern, standard and fancy -- always fun to discover a new subject. Many thanks for all the feedback.

[my63]

This is mine the dies are about £50 for the pair over here that is 10 times what I paid for the machine. I hope that you can get as good a deal

I might try to make my own from aluminium or hardwood.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7407/10759654756_538e05455e_z.jpg
IMG_5597 by my0771, on Flickr

 

I would like to see your monogram designs as I am working on my own

 

Michael

[bogiesan]

When working on your design, don't hesitate to contact the company that will be making the dies for you. They may, or may not, offer suggestions about their more successful custom designs: minimum typeface size, weight of embellishments and flourishes, and whether or not you can successfully submit a mutli-level design.

 

The production process often determines the amount of detail you can get into the dies but the type of paper and the machine's leverage will influence how much can be be successfully imprinted.

 

Google returned tons of interesting images for "monogram" and lots of (often questionable) advice for "how to design a monogram."

[sherlock_tomes]

I've done a fair bit of Googling, and there is indeed a lot of dubious advice out there. If Google is my friend, he's one I'd take with a grain of salt...

 

I've attached some monogram ideas I've developed, more in line with the idea of a wax seal or ink stamp than an embosser, though possibly one or two might work for an embosser as well. There's a lot of variety here because I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up :-)

 

If I had to choose one that best represented my sense of myself, it would be the one on the lower right. But I like elements of all of these. I'd be happy for any feedback on these.

 

Michael -- that's an impressive looking machine! Something like that should easily do the trick for printmaking paper, I would think!

Edited November 18, 2013 by sherlock_tomes

[scrivelry]

Michael,

 

I think that the monogram you were showing is simple enough in outline that you could cut it out of metal and make a die. Since I have never done this, I am certain, of course, that I have good ideas for how to do it, so I shall share them.

 

I think you wanted yours to do leather. I would get sheet brass, and cut out the monogram bits in positive and solder them onto a backing sheet.

 

I would then press them against a piece of paper or ink them and print them, and I would cut out the impression/print and stick that on the brass to make the positive.

 

Using a jewelry saw, I would cut this out and I would go on the outside of the lines, so that the opening is a tiny bit - the scarf of the saw's width, about - bigger than the positive because the leather is thicker than paper and I assume you'd need that tiny bit extra of room.

 

Probably cutting the whole business out with a craft knife from cardboard and then trying it out - seeing how the parts fit in the machine, if they need clearance to mesh, etc - would be a wise move.

 

For those who do not have jewelry setups and do not want to get into them, I think it is quite possible that some local jewelery crafts person might be willing to do this cutting and soldering in trade for some nice trays to display their jewelry on, or some such item which you already know how to make and have the equipment for, possibly saving time, money and aggravation all around.

 

I don't think it would be easily done for fine lines or complicated ones, but a blocky monogram or a simply shaped logo might work.

 

Just thinking on to the keyboard here. Now I have to add one of these thingers to my list of things to remember I wanted to buy if I see it in a thrift store...

 

T

[sherlock_tomes]

So I finally called the antique mall back, and they had a decent price on the desk embosser. My wife picked it up after work, and now I'm playing with it. It's called a Jackson Fareach Corporate Seal, by the Dwight and M.H. Jackson Company in Chicago. They are apparently still in business and still making seals. I'll need to contact them about pricing a custom seal (and make sure their seal inserts still work for this old model). In the meantime, it gives me a chance to practice on some different papers.

 

I've included images of the machine with examples on Crane writing paper and some thicker etching paper.

 

It seems to give a pretty good impression -- a little uneven, but still pretty crisp on the etching paper. I haven't tried the misting trick yet.

All in all, great fun!

[Andyroo]

You could change your name to Bristol Instrument.

[sherlock_tomes]

I do like the sound of "Bristol," but my wife might object to becoming "Mrs. Instrument."