Tips For A Beginning Mixer?

[typophile]

I was going to buy some red-black ink but then I thought wait! I have red ink and I have black ink, maybe I can make some red-black myself. So I am asking for some help, I've never done mixing before. Are there any tips? Or things I should avoid? What should I know before I make a big mess of things? I have two red inks, Sheaffer Skrip Red and Diamine's Red Dragon; the black I have is Aurora Black. So, whaddya say?

[Ted A]

You probably want to mix small amounts to see how they work. There are several red-black mixes with proportions listed on here. You can get an idea of proportions from them. Hopefully you have a srynge to measure into a small container. Vials from ink samples work well. Leave your mixture for a couple of days before you use it to make sure nothing strange happens

 

Good luck

[recluse]

First of all this is fun and edifying. You may discover something new about your preferences.

 

First, it's good to be precise in your proportions: a little black goes a long way. Keep records with the exact proportions. If you will mix in vials, identify them (say, write a number with Sharpie on the side) and refer to that number in your swabs and writing samples. This may seem unnecessary bookkeeping-y but vials tend to multiply. It's also useful to revisit mixtures in a few days. This ensures that, as was said before, nothing bad happens and also gives a better idea about color. You may be initially dissatisfied with a mixture because it is not what you were looking for but later you may realize that it stands on its own.

 

Second, a brief acquaintance with the color theory is beneficial. Here's a very useful thread on CMYK palette done with Noodler's inks. The pictures were renewed by amberleadavis on page 3.

 

Have fun!

[typophile]

Thanks Ted and recluse. I'll do some digging around my house and here on fpn, to see if I can find some syringes and some more tips. Thanks also recluse for the CMYK chart, super interesting and useful indeed! I'll let you guys know how I get along.

[dcwaites]

General rule of thumb - Black dominates everything, so start of with a very small ratio of Black to the other ink.

I generally start with 1 drop of black to 20 drops of the other colour, and adjust the ratios from there, to make it darker or lighter.

[rudyhou]

try it out. you won't know 'til you try it. i do mine by counting or measuring in drops or ml. it's handy to have a glass pen or a dip pen, where you can just dip n test n clean n dip n test again. make sure you have enough paper to test the difference between various measurements. AND identity/write down the difference. or you won't recall the exact measurements for the mixed color result you like.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

A few quick things:

Most ink that says 'Black' on the label isn't Black - it is a blend of dyes that appear Black when at low value (very dark). I suggest putting a drop of Aurora Black onto a wet swab, then running it across the sheet to determine the underlying hue. (Or add a drop of ink to a white saucer full of water.)

As indicated by dcwaites, Black is very dominant, which greatly skews the mixing ratios. Perhaps I could best express this in that you're darkening Red, not warming Black.

As such, I suggest diluting the Black ink to about 2:1 (66%) to start - or whatever ratio is necessary to get a dark Grey. So you are working with three ingredients: X*(2*Blk + 1*Water) + Y*Red = Z*
That takes a bit of triangulation rather than picking a spot along a straight line between Black and Red.

 

I transfer a few ml of ink from their bottles to wee vials / jars for the exercise. That avoids exposure to the risk of contamination of the main volume by repeated dipping / stray ink.

Consider starting with swabs first, then switching to a dip pen when/if you get close. Please do not be tempted to use an FP for dip sampling - I've found it is a shortcut to nowhere.

In addition to keeping notes, I sketch a template on the sheet before I start. That will get the samples in the best relative position for comparison, and ensure all samples are run.

I suggest testing the safety of the recipe before trying it in an FP.

You might find my Topic on mixing Gal-Lexi of some use / amusement. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/234049-noodlers-lexington-gray-galileo-manuscript-brown/?p=2517090

 

Bye,
S1

Edited November 13, 2013 by Sandy1

[typophile]

Wow Sandy, thanks. Super helpful info. Thanks too Rudy and David. You all are adding heaps to my ink mixing knowlege! I did some messing around today, just to sorta figure it all out. I definitely need to be a bit more scientific next time! I plan on doing more tests this weekend and hopefully find the color I'm looking for!

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I was remiss in not passing along the link to this jumble of recipes which include water as one of the ingredients. The recipes are based on ESSRI, and were formulated for those who want to 'Put the Blue back in Blue-Black'. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/223337-essri-mixes/?p=2219295

 

Bye,

S1

Edited November 17, 2013 by Sandy1

[WirsPlm]

You should get a wetting agent (Kodak PhotoFlo or glycerine) and a biocide (the 4.5% Phenol from Natural Pigments works best) to make sure your mixes stay nice and smooth and mold-free. Be careful with them (especially the biocide) since they're chemicals, but so long as you take about the same precautions as with household cleaning chemicals (ex. bleach or strong ammonia) for the phenol you should be fine, and wetting agents aren't really a problem so long as they aren't drunk (PhotoFlo is designed for hands-on film development and there's wetting agents in your dishsoap).

Edited November 19, 2013 by WirsPlm

[conib]

WirsPlm, when do you like to add a wetting agent to a mix -- what does it do for the ink?

 

How much biocide do you like to add to mixes -- In what quantity/percentage? Do you add a biocide to mixes consisting only of commercial inks?

 

-- Constance

[WirsPlm]

WirsPlm, when do you like to add a wetting agent to a mix -- what does it do for the ink?

 

How much biocide do you like to add to mixes -- In what quantity/percentage? Do you add a biocide to mixes consisting only of commercial inks?

 

-- Constance

Wetting agents lubricate the ink and make a wetter, smoother-flowing ink (trade-off is that they can make an ink slightly more feather-prone), I add them whenever I feel a pen isn't gliding properly (it's a personal-feel kind of thing) or if I want an ink to be darker. Nice discussion of wetting agents is here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/229403-surfactants-in-ink-for-improved-flow/

 

I definitely add biocides to commercial inks, most instances of mold in ink are from commercial inks that don't have sufficient biocides and start growing mold or slime en route to customers since the only really effective biocide that I know of isn't used for manufacturing uses anymore (it's not worse than bleach and is actually an ingredient in some medications, but there were concerns about the impact for workers who spent lots of time with it). Biocide 101 reading is here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/171278-biocide-shootout-tests/page-2 and and the Phenol link is : http://www.naturalpigments.com/phenol.html

 

Do take precautions while using the Phenol (gloves, ventilated area, etc) since it is a chemical just like cleaners, and apparently it's very bad for lizards, but it's a perfectly fine thing to put into ink and was in ink for decades.

[conib]

Thank you WrsPlm for posting the links, much appreciated! Many thanks also to S1 and Ted A and recluse and rudy and dcwaites -- and of course typophile the thread-starter!

 

I've been setting up to mix Iroshizuku inks -- I'm after a couple of colors that don't appear in their line. This thread -- and the threads linked to by recluse and WrsPlm -- have been extremely helpful.

 

-- Constance