4810? 585?

[ericthered2004]

The writing on my 144 reads: 4810/14k/montblanc/585. "4810" is the kind of nib, yes? But what kind is it , and why that number? I've always assumed that "585" refers to the nib size. Is this right, or just wrong, wrong, wrong?

 

Any info gratefully received.

Regards,

Eric

[Video11]

The "585" refers to the purity of the gold. 14 karat gold is 585 parts per 1000 pure gold. I believe that the "4810" is height in meters of Mont Blanc, the mountain in the Alps not the pen company.

[patrick_y]

... Ouch. Just ouch. I hope no Europeans see this one. It might perpetuate the stereotype.

[ericthered2004]

Ouch? Stereotype? Which Europeans? And why would they care, since I am myself European? Is the MB world always so mysterious?

 

This uncertainty gives me the eerie sensation that I've walked into an c18th novel of only middling quality, BUT:

 

 

 

Thanks for the info!

Regards,

Ericthered

 

 

Edited for not being quite sure what happened

Edited February 16, 2007 by ericthered2004

[kenny]

ALL MontBlanc nibs, from all models of pens, have "4810" on them, in honor of the mountain. At least, all the new nibs. I'm not sure of very old nibs.

[ericthered2004]

QUOTE (kenny @ Feb 16 2007, 04:55 AM)

ALL MontBlanc nibs, from all models of pens, have "4810" on them, in honor of the mountain. At least, all the new nibs. I'm not sure of very old nibs.

Many thanks. So it's a trademark not a description. Tricky. Is there a reason why the quality of the gold is described twice?

 

Regards,

Eric

[Jerome Tarshis]

Yes, there is a reason why the um, fineness or quality of the gold is described twice. If you live in Ohio, you may have noticed packaging on which the weight or volume of the contents is described twice, in, for example, ounces and milliliters. Or pounds and kilograms.

 

It is a kindness to those who might have grown up with one kind of measure, in the Ohio case non-metric units, and might find themselves not knowing what to make of the metric equivalent.

 

The same is true of gold nibs. You may not credit this, if I may use a UK English locution, but there are people in this world who consider 14K an understandable designation but do not know what "585" means.

 

Strange but true; I can remember when I myself didn't know what "585" meant, although in Europe, continental Europe, it is quite a conventional way to express the idea.

 

Not a peculiarity of Montblanc. The number "4810" is a peculiarity of Montblanc, although some might say the brand name offers a hint.

[bartosz.gadomski]

QUOTE (kenny @ Feb 16 2007, 05:55 AM)

ALL MontBlanc nibs, from all models of pens, have "4810" on them, in honor of the mountain. At least, all the new nibs. I'm not sure of very old nibs.

Well not all. See Starwalker. This one do not have it, but I do not know why.

[RSVP]

QUOTE (kenny @ Feb 16 2007, 05:55 AM)

ALL MontBlanc nibs, from all models of pens, have "4810" on them, in honor of the mountain. At least, all the new nibs. I'm not sure of very old nibs.

Technically only Meisterstuecks. The 4810 is the company's warrant mark.

 

The 375/585/750 is the standardized European Union hallmark. Britain and any other countries who use symbolic marks now use these side-by-side.

[zyg]

My Sir Georg Solti also has 4810 printed on the nib.

zyg

[RSVP]

QUOTE (zyg @ Feb 16 2007, 12:54 PM)

My Sir Georg Solti also has 4810 printed on the nib. zyg

It is a Meisterstuck derivative hence the warrant nib.

[Titivillus]

QUOTE (patrick_y @ Feb 15 2007, 11:28 PM)

... Ouch. Just ouch. I hope no Europeans see this one. It might perpetuate the stereotype.

why Europeans???

 

what's the stereotype?

 

rather confused,

 

K

[kenny]

QUOTE (rimmerjar @ Feb 16 2007, 06:31 AM)

QUOTE (kenny @ Feb 16 2007, 05:55 AM) ALL MontBlanc nibs, from all models of pens, have "4810" on them, in honor of the mountain.  At least, all the new nibs.  I'm not sure of very old nibs. Technically only Meisterstuecks. The 4810 is the company's warrant mark.   Well, except my Boheme fixed nib has "4810" on it, and it is not a Meisterstuck. I also have a pen that Mrs. Kenny won in a drawing at Pen Paradise (it is a chrome body piston filler, I think some sort of Solitare?) which also has 4810 on it.   In fact, every MB I own has the mark. However, I don't have a Starwalker, so I will stand corrected on that point.

[ericthered2004]

QUOTE (Jerome Tarshis @ Feb 16 2007, 11:01 AM)

Yes, there is a reason why the um, fineness or quality of the gold is described twice. If you live in Ohio, you may have noticed packaging on which the weight or volume of the contents is described twice, in, for example, ounces and milliliters. Or pounds and kilograms. It is a kindness to those who might have grown up with one kind of measure, in the Ohio case non-metric units, and might find themselves not knowing what to make of the metric equivalent. The same is true of gold nibs. You may not credit this, if I may use a UK English locution, but there are people in this world who consider 14K an understandable designation but do not know what "585" means. Strange but true; I can remember when I myself didn't know what "585" meant, although in Europe, continental Europe, it is quite a conventional way to express the idea. Not a peculiarity of Montblanc. The number "4810" is a peculiarity of Montblanc, although some might say the brand name offers a hint.

This is fascinating. I count myself amongst those who didn't know the XXX/1000 grading system and that carats were a non-universal grading mark. I imagine an EU office somewhere has expressed concern about people like me.

 

I do remember that in the UK dual weights appear on boxes of tea and the like, showing both what I believe is known as the Actual or Real or True Weight, in contrast to Some Other Weight.

 

Thanks again!

Eric

[RSVP]

QUOTE (kenny @ Feb 16 2007, 03:40 PM)

Well, except my Boheme fixed nib has "4810" on it, and it is not a Meisterstuck.  I also have a pen that Mrs. Kenny won in a drawing at Pen Paradise (it is a chrome body piston filler, I think some sort of Solitare?) which also has 4810 on it.

The original designation of the Meisterstueck was (is) that of the premier line of Montblanc pens (usually beginning with the "1" designation) and specifically carrying the 4810 Warrant Nib.

 

It is only through ease of interpretation that "Meisterstueck" has become associated with the flat top / torpedo shape. There have been safety filling and many other derivations of the series in the past which bear none of the associated styling queues.

 

It is curious to note here that when the Boheme re-emerged after the "Rouge et Noir" recall it was more consistent in

 

a: Having the three ring motif on the section

b: No longer being associated with a model which did not have the 4810 nib

 

It is tempting to say that MB may pay more attention to their past than is sometimes inferred.

Edited February 18, 2007 by rimmerjar

[scunepo]

I have a Montblanc and didn't realise what the numbers '585' stood for. My knowledge of fountain pens increases each time I use the FPN.

 

I have a 75 year special edition Meisterstuck and 4810 isn't inscribed on the nib. The nib is inscribed with the lettering '75 Years'. I wonder if that has replaced the '4810' on this anniversary model?

[zaddick]

I have a Montblanc and didn't realise what the numbers '585' stood for. My knowledge of fountain pens increases each time I use the FPN.

 

I have a 75 year special edition Meisterstuck and 4810 isn't inscribed on the nib. The nib is inscribed with the lettering '75 Years'. I wonder if that has replaced the '4810' on this anniversary model?

Yes, it did.

[teH_ReALDeadPoole]

Following on this thread, has anyone come across a 14K nib marked 686?  I haven't been able to come across any information on these so far and am curious about the time period.

[Nurmister]

27 minutes ago, teH_ReALDeadPoole said:

Following on this thread, has anyone come across a 14K nib marked 686?  I haven't been able to come across any information on these so far and am curious about the time period.

 

I don't think a 14K nib would be marked 686, unless the "686" referred to something other than the gold content in the nib alloy. Perhaps the imprint on the nib isn't clear; do you have a picture?

[teH_ReALDeadPoole]

9 minutes ago, Nurmister said:

 

I don't think a 14K nib would be marked 686, unless the "686" referred to something other than the gold content in the nib alloy. Perhaps the imprint on the nib isn't clear; do you have a picture?

Ah! you're right. I double checked the photo (which is a little blurry) and the 5s just happen to look like 6s. Thank you!