Lamy 2000 Or Binder Pelikan M200?

[richfong]

I am contemplating either a stock Lamy 2000, stock Pelikan M200, or a binderized Pelikan M200. I can buy the M200 from Richard Binder for $112 + $8 shipping = $120, and I can get the Lamy 2000 from Amazon for around $120 with free shipping. The stock M200 is around $90. I will be getting a fine nib, and do not plan to swap the nib in the future. I know the comparison between the 2000 and M200 has been beaten to death, but I'm not quite sure if buying the M200 binderized will make it any different. I would be pleased if anyone has any suggestions on another pen around this price range I can look at.

I am still a bit new to fountain pens, so I don't know too much about my options in this price range. I am perfectly happy with my Parker 51, but I got to touch a Lamy 2000 for the first time today and my excitement has been rekindled. I want something that's just as marvelous as my P51, but feels maybe a little bit softer. I will be using the pen to take notes in class. If it helps any, my two favorite/most used pens are my Parker 51 and Parker Vector.

Does anyone have any opinions on which nib would feel the best? Does "binderizing" the pen make the pen significantly smoother, or does it just cut out quality control issues/the hassle of returning or fixing the pen if it's scratchy? If I buy one of these pens, will I really love it over my P51? (I fear I might just buy the new pen, use it all of once, and store it away if it isn't any more amazing than my P51). I know this is at a different price point, but how does a TWSBI 580 compare? Thanks for all your help.

 

Regards,

Richard

[Keyless Works]

If you are new to fountain pens the "Binderized" Pelikan will be your safest bet for sure as the pen wont be sent to you until it writes beautifully. Lamy and Pelikan to my knowledge do not test their nibs so it is common to get brand new ones that need work. For a fee you can have Richard Binder make the nib italic or flex/semi-flex if that interests you.

 

I don't have any pens from Richard Binder but I have had poor performers worked on by well known nibmeisters and they can work wonders with nibs...that said my Parker 51 is still my favorite pen.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Keyless Works

[Buzz_130]

I am a very happy customer of Richard Binder, and I have both modern and vintage pens from his shop. His work is legendary, and, as you used in your post, his work has its own word, "Binderized." That's a statement of respect from the community. You will be very pleased with an M200 from Richard (I bought an M805 from him).

 

As an owner of the Lamy 2000, M200, and numerous Parker 51s, you are certainly in interesting territory and decision making! My Parker 51s are my daily carry and workhorses. My wife really likes the M200, and I often find the M200 in her usage as it's a great nib, small size, and great capacity with a very nice piston fill. I bought my Lamy 2000 after losing a Safari, and when I bought my first Parker 51... the Lamy 2000 has taken a back seat. The Parker 51 and Lamy 2000 share many of the same characteristics: a great writer without "looking" like a fountain pen, great ink capacity, and reliable writers.

 

If you are looking to add a pen to your collection that will write incredibly well, have the beautiful looks of a fountain pen, and have great quality for decades of use, then you can't go wrong with a M200. If you are looking to stay close to your comfort area with the 51s, then the Lamy 2000 is a very nice addition to your collection, and you won't be disappointed.

 

Buzz

[alc3261]

Pelikan all the way!!

[Edwaroth]

Pellie from Richard, period. You'll be happy you did.

[carlos.q]

Another vote for the Binderized Pelikan: my M200 is my EDC. The "springy" nib allows for some line variation but is hard enough for taking notes rapidly.

Although the Lamy 2000 is a great pen, some people (including myself) have had problems with its small "sweet spot".

[heymatthew]

One thing to keep in mind when considering the 2000 vs the 200 is the size difference. I remember buying my first Pelikan and when I got it, I was sort of shocked by how tiny the pen was. It was way smaller than I had previously thought. Is that a bad thing? Nope, not really. I use it posted (its one of 3 pens that I actually post) and it's a very comfortable daily writer. I had Linda Kennedy remove about 3 pounds of tipping material from the pen so now it actually writes like an EF should.

 

The 2000 is a larger pen and, in my opinion, much more comfortable to use. I also think the piston mechanism feels better in a 2000. I personally (please don't shoot me guys!) find the M200/05/15 piston system to feel rather cheap. There's a lot of play in mine before the piston even starts to move and it sort of has this weird feeling. The Lamy 2000 I had (sold it, but regretted it and will have a replacement on Monday, actually) felt significantly better. It just felt more substantial and less cheap.

 

I have had abysmal results with Pelikan pens right out of the box. I've tried an EF, F and M and all of them wrote like Sharpie markers rather than fountain pens. I sold the M and the F right away. The EF I bought went to Linda Kennedy (trained by Richard Binder) and it is now one of my favorite pens. The 2000 I had was nearly perfect right out of the box. I would buy a 2000 sight-unseen in a minute. I'd never buy another Pelikan without purchasing it from Richard, Linda or another nibmeister who I knew could make sure it didn't have all that tipping material on it. I nearly gave up on Pelikan completely.

 

If I had to pick a pen to order, I'd go with a 2000. But that's because the only Pelikan I still own, had to be worked on. The others would have been fine after having some work done as well, but I didn't want to dump 50% of the cost of the pen into having the nib perfected.

 

As for the TWSBI, they're just good pens. They write well. The filling mechanism is top-notch. And they come in at less than half of the 2000, and roughly half of the Pelikan. You could get a Vac 700 and a Diamond 580 for the price of the 2000. Get Pendleton Brown to make you a Fine Stub for one of them and you'll be in TWSBI heaven. I've got a Medium stub on my Vac 700 from him and a Fine stub on one of my 540's and I just love them to death.

[Johnson]

I've never enjoyed the way a Lamy 2000 writes. I've probably been through 4, because I love the design and wanted to like the pen, but everyone I've had has a "mushy" feel when writing, for lack of a better term. The ink flowed and wrote just fine, it wasn't a flaw in the nib, I just didn't like the feel of the nib on paper. And this isn't criticizing all Lamys, because the Safaris I've owned have written beautifully, to my tastes.

 

I highly recommend the Binderized Pelikan. I've been through dozens of Pelikans, and have had a few that were stinkers in the writing category. But anything I've purchased from Mr. Binder has written beautifully. I recommend any newbie to the hobby start (I know you aren't a pure newbie, just saying) with a reasonably priced pen, like an M200, purchased from a nibmeister, like Mr. Binder or Mr. Mottishaw. That way you know you are getting a pen that writes like a fountain pen should, and you can feel the magic right away.

 

Down the road a ways you can give a Lamy 2000 a shot. Tons of people adore their 2000s, so don't let my negativity keep you away.

[Vshin]

I have both the Lamy 2k and a binderized M200. Judging from your post, it looks like you're enamored with the design of the Lamy so that's the pen you should get. The M200 is really nothing special in terms of looks and feel. Having the stock nib "binderized" insures the nib will be smooth so it's mostly a quality-control benefit.

 

Now if you were to buy one of Binder's specialty nibs, like a 1.1 mm cursive left oblique italic, then I would wholeheartedly recommend the M200 instead. If you're sticking with a stock nib then buy the Lamy 2k.

[heymatthew]

I should also mention that my M205 was "Binderized". I bought it second hand from the forums here, but it had been adjusted before Richard sent it out. It was one of the smoothest writers I've ever had. Almost too smooth, really as it just floated across the paper (I prefer a little feedback), but it still had an awful lot of tipping material, which I paid Linda Kennedy to remove for me. It was labeled EF, but wrote easily as broad as a Lamy Medium, pushing Broad.

 

If you get a Pelikan, make sure you ask the nibmeister to adjust it to write a true line (true EF, F, M, B, BB, etc.) otherwise, you'll probably get something much broader or narrower than what you want.

[logantrky]

I also own a Binderized M205 with F nib. Like heymatthew said above, it is verrrrry smooth.

 

Lamy has poor quality control, in my experience. I've sold every Lamy that I've owned. However, I would buy another Pelikan in a heartbeat. Go for the M205. You'll probably end up with one eventually anyway.

[heymatthew]

Go for the M205. You'll probably end up with one eventually anyway.

 

This is true. As much as I tried to fight it, I ended up with one. And spent a bunch of extra money making it write the way it should have out of the box. Stupid Pelikans...

[Rose Nibs]

Whichever you get, and they are both good, you may find that the Parker 51 is better. You may collect a dozen or twenty very good pens before you find something as brilliant as a 51. It's fun searching, though.

[ziptrickhead]

I'll echo heymatthew's thoughts of size consideration. I don't own a M200 but I had initially thought about buying a M400 before going to the pen store. The M400 is the same size as the M200 and it is a small pen for sure. Length isn't as much of an issue for me because the cap can always be posted or unposted but the diameter of the section is quite slim. I don't have both on hand to compare unfortunately but I believe the M200 section is slimmer than the Parker 51, Also depending on how high you hold pens, the Lamy 2000 section tapers to be quite slim as well, but when I use the pen I hold it on the thicker end of the stainless steel section so that doesn't bother me.

 

In the end though, I love my Lamy 2000 and Pelikan as a brand in general. I own 2 M6xx series and love them both (my M600 being my daily user). If I had to go back again and money wasn't a factor, I'd still go with the M600 over the M400 just purely based on the pen sizes. Because my preference leans towards that size of pen, I'd go with the Lamy 2000 over the M200. Yes, the Lamy 2000 has a small sweet spot (especially the EF) and the QC isn't the best, but if you order from Amazon you always have returns until you find a pen that writes well for you. Worse comes to worse you can return the 2000 if you don't like it and go ahead and buy the M200 from Binder.

 

And if you're going to be using pen for note taking then comfort is a major issue. You may also find the snap cap more convenient for note taking but Pelikans do unscrew quite quickly that I don't find it to be a major issue.

[Bwassung]

Get the lamy 2k, but get it from gouletpens. they know that the lamy 2k has a hit or miss nib, and Im pretty sure they check each one before it goes out.

[Randal6393]

Either company has good pens, a few that aren't excellent off the mark. I love my Lamy 2000 and my Pelikan M200. Both required a cleaning and some nib work before I was happy. Both write as well as any pen that I have -- better than most. Like the Pelikan for its portability and small size. Like the Lamy for its easy handling. So, sort of a toss-up for me.

 

But agree that ordering from Richard Binder will simplify any "new-pen" problems. Ordering from any nibmeister that has a guarantee means the nib is dipped, checked out with a loupe, and warranted to write properly. As noted by many, Richard really shines at turning out a custom flex or italic nib. That, however, is a horse of a different color than the ball-tipped pen used for writing modern American cursive.

 

Best of luck to you, enjoy,

Edited September 30, 2013 by Randal6393

[richfong]

I should also mention that my M205 was "Binderized". I bought it second hand from the forums here, but it had been adjusted before Richard sent it out. It was one of the smoothest writers I've ever had. Almost too smooth, really as it just floated across the paper (I prefer a little feedback), but it still had an awful lot of tipping material, which I paid Linda Kennedy to remove for me. It was labeled EF, but wrote easily as broad as a Lamy Medium, pushing Broad.

 

If you get a Pelikan, make sure you ask the nibmeister to adjust it to write a true line (true EF, F, M, B, BB, etc.) otherwise, you'll probably get something much broader or narrower than what you want.

 

Heymatthew,

 

Thanks for the tip. If I choose to buy a pen from Mr. Binder, how might I go about asking for it to be adjusted to a "true" fine before it is shipped out? Is there a form that I complete on the website, or do I send him an email before I order?

 

Richard

[heymatthew]

Heymatthew,

 

Thanks for the tip. If I choose to buy a pen from Mr. Binder, how might I go about asking for it to be adjusted to a "true" fine before it is shipped out? Is there a form that I complete on the website, or do I send him an email before I order?

 

Richard

 

You may want to contact him directly via phone or email and ask him. Also, I think Nibs.com sells the Pelikan M205 and they have a form you submit. When I sent my 205 to Linda Kennedy she told me to pick out a pen in my collection that I liked and she'd try and match it. I sent her a Sailor and she got it darn close... Richard may want you to do this as well, but I can't say for certain. Give him a call. Or visit Nibs.com and see what John has to offer. Either way, you'll be taken care of. The M205 is a wonderful, tiny little pen that I am happy to carry alongside many other pens. I got my new 2000 today and love it as well and would hate to have to choose between the two.

[haldane3]

I vote for Lamy 2000.

 

M200's nib is uninspired. Sure, it's smooth, but I think the 2000 is a more satisfying experience.

 

Not to mention, one is sleek and the other is...traditional?

 

 

 

 

[DreamInk]

My advice would be to go for the pen that feels the best in your hand. A friend and I came to an agreement that virtually any pen could need to be tuned, especially if you're picky about writing preferences. This same friend now automatically takes into account the cost of having to send a brand new pen to a nibmeister to get it tuned to perfect working order. The way he looks at it is if the pen writes well out of the box, then he saved himself some money not having to send it off to be tuned. I wouldn't let a nibmeister's availability of stock determine what pen I'm going to spend my money on even if it's a matter of convenience. There are plenty of well respected nib workers who work on pens not purchased from themselves. I just try to make sure I get exactly what I want. It's your money though, so it's your choice. Good luck!