The Lamy Safari Is Just As Good As Any Other Pen. There: I've Said It.

[ddustinn]

 

People here don’t seem to like my posts so I will keep it as short as I can. It takes a lot of skill to make a 1500$ bottle of wine. It takes a different skill set to produce cheap wine that can be produced in huge quantities and still be good enough to be enjoyed daily by the multitude to which I belong. I like handmade things but appreciate, perhaps more, a good and honest industrial design. I am a simple man belonging to the large community of riffraff. Give me Esteys and Lamys and low level Sheaffers and I am happy . By the way I had a girlfriend once that used to say than no matter how much she likes stake – sometimes she wants fish.

yossi

 

Well said.

[Edwaroth]

The one constant thing I'm seeing here...there is inconsistency in all things. You buy one cheap pen and it's the best thing ever, the next is a dog. You buy an expensive pen only to find it veerrry hard to justify the price while the next is a jewel of quality and perfection. It happens everywhere, in everything. I guess I have learned to expect such.

[cbaytan]

The one constant thing I'm seeing here...there is inconsistency in all things. You buy one cheap pen and it's the best thing ever, the next is a dog. You buy an expensive pen only to find it veerrry hard to justify the price while the next is a jewel of quality and perfection. It happens everywhere, in everything. I guess I have learned to expect such.

 

Very little companies or sellers trying the pens out before selling it. It's not just Lamy's almost all same brand same brand FP's are different, just because an infinitesimal difference of the nib or feed or ink affects writing quality. I am not even getting into if pens matches users writing preferences and habits nor unpublished design changes of the pen parts. My personal opinion is if you want perfect pens for you starting from the first use, you have to send them to "your preferred" nib meister first to be adjusted just for you, otherwise you are on your own. To me this is the most fun part, customizng pens for yourself especially with not so expensive pens with basic tinkering tools like grid sandpaper, mylar sheet, brass sheets, modeling knife etc lots of fun, God bless FP manufacturers.

[Bisquitlips]

I love my Safaris!

 

There is not another pen that is that good for that money in all of my collection!

 

Just sweet and there will always been a niche in my pen drawer and pocket for one.

[mhosea]

Well, setting aside that I can't stand triangular grips, I have to take issue with the idea that I can't "beat" the Lamy for the price. Beg to differ, as I have beat it many times. These are not current retail products, but should we be so parochial? Can you beat it? YES!!!

 

I have a Sheaffer Snorkel Special that I got for $15 and restored for a few dollars more. I got 3 NOS Danitrio pens on EBay with #5 IPG nibs for an average of $9 each with shipping. These normally go for about the price of of a Safari each on Ebay...when they come up...but I got lucky. These were much more expensive pens when they were available at retail, but I just adjusted the IPG nibs, and I only like them 1000 times more than Lamy Safari. I have NOS Sheaffer No-Nonsense pens that I bought for less than $9. I have one that is smoothed to perfection as-is, and I have another with a Knox K35 fine nib that's pretty nice. I like these both better than a Lamy Safari. With vintage Sheaffers the list goes on. Heck, I paid less than $20 total (after restoration expenses) for a standard size green striated Sheaffer Balance in nice condition with a 14K "feathertouch" nib. I even like my Haolilai 601F better than a Lamy Safari. All of these cost less than a Lamy Safari. I could go on here. Yes, Virginia, you can "beat" a Lamy Safari for value, and you can beat it very, very badly.

 

Having said that, I have to agree in spirit with the idea that you can't beat a well-adjusted inexpensive pen by throwing more money at the problem. I have pens that cost hundreds of dollars, and I like them, some of them I like a lot, but most of my favorite pens cost me less than $100 each, so I'm not really in the market for expensive pens anymore.

Edited September 16, 2013 by mhosea

[Strombomboli]

 

To me this is the most fun part, customizng pens for yourself

 

I also love that part very much.

 

 

I have a Sheaffer Snorkel Special that I got for $15 and restored for a few dollars more. I got 3 NOS Danitrio pens on EBay with #5 IPG nibs for an average of $9 each with shipping. (...) Yes, Virginia, you can "beat" a Lamy Safari for value, and you can beat it very, very badly.

 

Here in Germany, a Safari costs 17.50 €, which today is 23.26 $, and you can find used ones on Ebay for half the price (not for sought after editions, but for regular ones).

 

I would love to get a Sheaffer snorkel for 15 $! Wasn't lucky yet. But I just got an old Pelikan for 23 € (30,57 $). Much prefer that over a Safari.

[proton007]

A good pen is one that feels and writes good. I've had my share of experiences with both cheap and expensive pens. But I'll have to say some pens may share a particular characteristic thats not appealing at all.

[migo984]

@ migo985:

 

Word! You know - it's what youths say when they mean, 'I absolutely agree with you'.

 

As in, 'True dat!', 'For real', 'Fo sho'. Etcetera.

 

I'll go and take my tablets now....

 

Now I really do feel old! :-/

[HDoug]

I'm a big fan of my Safaris and Al-Stars. Fountain pens are one of the "personal preference" things that are completely up to your taste. Here's the Safari I have on me at the moment:

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8224/8439332836_e63dba780f_z.jpg

 

Doug

[orfew]

I tried to like my Safaris, but they both write like nails.

[honza]

I would love to get a Sheaffer snorkel for 15 $! Wasn't lucky yet. But I just got an old Pelikan for 23 € (30,57 $). Much prefer that over a Safari.

 

Yep, this is often overlooked here at FPN. Buying just about any vintage Sheaffer in Europe is an expensive proposition compared to the US. I know, I've been trying to buy a decent Snorkel for a reasonable price for some time, but no luck yet. And buying from the US gets expensive again if tax and shipping are calculated in

[de_pen_dent]

FWIW, I think a Deccan Author or Advocate stomps all over the Lamy for the same price. Lamy is just ubiquitous.

[max dog]

When you reach a certain fountain pen maturity you might be able to appreciate that a montblanc146, pelikan m600 or parker 51 offers a more refined writing experience than a lamy safari. Or not.

[WirsPlm]

When you reach a certain fountain pen maturity you might be able to appreciate that a montblanc146, pelikan m600 or parker 51 offers a more refined writing experience than a lamy safari. Or not.

 

Or maybe they don't offer a better writing experience for some people. Since, you know, there's all kinds of people out there with all kinds of hands and all kinds of preferences.

[Wahl]

Right now I´m using a Conklin 2NL made in 1918.

 

Lamy Safari no thanks.

[Mister John]

To my mind, the most interesting aspect of this topic is not about the merits of cheap versus expensive writing instruments, preferences obviously differ, and there is nothing wrong with preferring functional and inexpensive, but rather I want to know about the details of the tine spreading and, especially, the feed hacking to create a perfect Safari.

 

If the OP could inform us of the exact procedure used to turn Safaris from good to great, that would be truly helpful to the community. Any help OP?

[lurcho]

@ Mister John:

 

Honestly, I, the OP, feel embarrassed to answer your question by explaining how to pimp the Safari/Vista. even though I've done exactly that elsewhere on this site, and recently.

 

I'm not being disingenuous: I am very inexperienced in these procedures, and others can be far more helpful.

 

I started (now I think of it) daring to fiddle with tine-spreading about three years ago. I was in work, writing with my M250, and suddenly decided to try out John Mottishaw's instructions on nibs.com, to which I refer you:

 

http://www.nibs.com/Article6.html

 

This same article shows how to fiddle about with misaligned tines, a problem that can attend any new pen (or old one), and can be produced by tine-spreading (though not always).

 

With a gold nib, barely applying pressure can have a marked effect. If you haven't done it, you'd be surprised how little one needs to press. It's almost like pretending to apply pressure. Seriously. Like pretending.

 

Then test.

 

A stainless steel nib like the Safari's is far more resistant, but that doesn't mean one should be any more gung-ho. Try it - with ink still in the pen, write with it, then try again.

 

You have to have a 10X loupe to check the tine-alignment. If they're out of whack, push one down or the other up. With immense care, but yet not like a baby.

 

It's astonishing, but nibs respond to this messing about by writing better!

 

With my Pelikan M250, I kept pushing it, and reached a point where I thought I'd gone too far, but I now think it's wonderful.

 

On the other hand, working on the M400 nib (on my M205 body) I really did go too far. Squeezing the shoulders together reduced the flow again, but too much. So I went through tine-spreading and tine-contracting about four times. Now it's perfect. And I mean perfect.

 

I cannot express how careful I was with such a valuable nib.

 

To further augment the flow on my Vista, I took out the nib and cut the central feed channel wider with a craft blade (actually, a Stanley knife). I wasn't remotely careful with this bit, and went for it. (Which doesn't mean I behaved like an axe-wielding maniac, either.) Please note that at this time I didn't know how to take the feed out of the Safari line, so Ididn't, and only widened the exposed feed. And that did the trick. (I have since easily removed and replaced the feeds of Safaris. One simply lines them up correctly when replacing.)

 

It's truly a great writer now, my Vista. Perhaps Lamy nibs vary because of poor QC. Mine have always been smooth, but with a paucity of flow. On four pens, this procedure has worked flawlessly.

 

That's all I've done. Please don't kill me if your efforts go t**s up.

Edited September 16, 2013 by lurcho

[cbaytan]

I suspect if a Lamy unaware reads this thread he/she might think Safari/Vista pens are heck of a high end pens competitors, warning to new users, they are not, instead they are just very good pens for the price/benefit ratio I won't get into the dteails because this is not a Lamy bashing thread. If you have questions you can open new threads about specific models. Users will comment on them for sure.

[lurcho]

Absolutely agree. They are not high-end. They can simply be made into very good writers, and are already very good for many.

 

The attraction for me, personally, is precisely that they are cheap, and can be made to somewhat emulate the writing characteristics of better pens.

 

I started this thread by declaring the provocative intention of my premise. I was, for example, playing with my M400-nibbed Pelikan tonight on Oxford paper (same as Black n' Red), and it was smoother and nicer than the Vista.

 

However - the Vista is definitely slightly stubbish (very slightly), and the new kugle-tipped Pel isn't. And the feed is more consistent after a page or so on the Pel.

 

I have had to adjust the flow on both, though, as explained.

 

And - I repeat - there's not much in it, to my sensibility. Not a million miles.

Edited September 16, 2013 by lurcho

[proton007]

Absolutely agree. They are not high-end. They can simply be made into very good writers, and are already very good for many.

 

The attraction for me, personally, is precisely that they are cheap, and can be made to somewhat emulate the writing characteristics of better pens.

 

I started this thread by declaring the provocative intention of my premise. I was, for example, playing with my M400-nibbed Pelikan tonight on Oxford paper (same as Black n' Red), and it was smoother and nicer than the Vista.

 

However - the Vista is definitely slightly stubbish (very slightly), and the new kugle-tipped Pel isn't. And the feed is more consistent after a page or so on the Pel.

 

I have had to adjust the flow on both, though, as explained.

 

And - I repeat - there's not much in it, to my sensibility. Not a million miles.

 

Therein lies the crux of this issue. The Safari costs $25, the Al-Star slightly more. The Pelikan M400 is $200+.

 

Both have a hard nib, the Pelikan relies on a wetter flow to give it the 'smoothness', the Lamy is drier. But both can be made smooth enough using micromesh.

 

I think the M200 is a closer comparison. I can understand the markup for the piston filler.

 

The AlStar/Safari sits comfortably in its price range, the M200 has a gold plated steel nib + a piston filler, its reasonably priced at ~$100.

 

To me it seems Pelikan needs to pay some attention to their higher end. Apart from better trim and a gold nib, if it doesn't differ a better writing experience, a practical user isn't going to buy it.

Edited September 17, 2013 by proton007