The Lamy Safari Is Just As Good As Any Other Pen. There: I've Said It.

[Strombomboli]

I love cheap pens, because I can have lots of them, which means that I can have lots of ink colours ready for use at any given time.

 

But I do not love the Lamy Safari, even though I would like to.

 

I would like to, because it, too, comes from the Bauhaus tradition. I appreciate the simple, yet interesting design and the cheap, yet solid construction and production. I never experienced a problem with a Safari, nor with a Lamy converter, for that matter; on the contrary, I am quite happy that I could fit one in my old Diplomat pen for which there are neither cartridges nor converter to be had any more.

 

But I do not really love the Safari in the end, becaus I can't handle the grip section, even though, I have normal sized adult hands. It tires me; I start to have a crampy feeling in my hand after a not very long time. The reason for this might be that I am used to small and lightweight Pelikans from the 60s and 70s; I wrote for decades with one of those before I got interested in fountain pens in general.

 

The cheap pens I really do love, though, are my homemade eyedroppers: Preppy pens with Lamy (!) nibs as well as transparent Pelikanos with Pelikan calligraphy nibs. Not all, but most of the Preppies are excellent writers, which is what all of the Pelikanos are.

 

I also bought two expensive pens new. I had to send both of them back, because they wouldn't write without skipping and so forth. The Visconti Opera Crystal Mosquito (I think that's the correct name) should be back soon, the Pelikan M605 in two weeks. It saddens me that a Pelikan pen is giving me problems; the old ones which I bought cheap from Ebay usually don't.

 

I vowed to not buy a new expensive pen again. Also no expensive vintage pen. I have some which are good. I have a use for them, and that's that. (I especially like my Sheaffer pen with a triumph nib.)

 

For me, the most important thing about a pen is how it writes. And that has nothing to do with how much it cost.

 

For cheap paper: I second that as well. I found out that all my pens write on normally priced, i.e., more or less cheap paper, but not all write on Clairefontaine, Rhodia, or Zanders Gohrsmühle. (All write on Tomoe River paper, that's the exception. And the only reason why this paper is expensive, is that I have to import it from the other side of the world.) (I also found out that there are lots and lots of papers that are not fountain pen friendly, but that's another story.)

[TLab3000]

I probably own more Z50 nibbed Lamy pens and Z50 nibs than most people on this thread. They can be better than more expensive pens, but usually, they aren't.

Most Lamy Z50 pens like the Vista, Safari, AL-star, Linea and so on are not good out of the box - that's an experience you've already made. But with a little bit of tweaking, they can be quite alright. But there will always be more expensive as well as cheaper pens that will be better and vise versa (if that makes sense).

Someone said that their 2000 turned into a dust collector. My Lamy 2000 has a far better nib than any of my other Lamys. Maybe I just got lucky, but my 2000's nib is a dream come true!

I have cheap chinese pens that are better than my Safaris, especially Duke pens. Give them a try, it's worth it. I also have more expensive pens that are worse than the Safaris. And pens in the same price range that didn't make it. Sorry, I have to mention this: Why did Geha lose against Lamy and of course Pelikan? I have two metal Geha pens that are so much better than any pen in this price range.

 

What I'm saying is, don't give up looking for a better pen. You're not the typical Joe Citizen or else you wouldn't be here. You can certainly profit from a better pen and enjoy it. Try Chinese pens, try vintage pens (a Waterman 12 or 52 can do things no modern Lamy can do) even if you're happy with your Lamy and Pelikan right now. Standstill is boring, new stuff is exciting. Unless you are a much more pragmatic and content person than I am.

[lurcho]

I love my surgically-enhanced Vista. I think I said that.

 

But I really did make it clear, I hope, that it's not snobbish to value higher-end pens. Not in my opinion.

 

I've recently been tinkering, ever-so-gingerly, with the M400 nib on my M205 body, and though the blobby end annoys me when I compare the writing feel with its crisper antecedents, I'm getting to really like it.

 

But it's a very nice feeling to have a fifteen-quid, loseable Lamy to take to the pub with a one-quid Oxford Campus A6 spiral-bound pad! And not feel like I'm denying myself the ubiquitous, portable use of a good fountain pen.

 

I also think a very important factor in all this, one that I forgot all about in my initial post, is that we all have different views about what value pen we can afford to lose. I am in a parlous state of financial embarrassment (because I'm unemployed), whereas others in this thread are perhaps comfortable.

 

And that makes a hell of a difference, of course.

 

Thank you for those who have suggested cheaper-end Chinese pens, and the like, that surpass the Safari. I mean to check some out.

 

PS: @ Marie: I thought that article was terrifically interesting. Perhaps paradoxically, in view of my opening remarks in this thread, I personally believe that fountain-pen users have a refined tactile and visual appreciation of different nibs. If an expensive nib is poor, I know instantly. So do most others here, I think. However, the general conclusions of the article were absolutely amazing.

Edited September 13, 2013 by lurcho

[GabrielleDuVent]

So now people are snobs because they don't like the coveted Lamy Safari, good grief"...

 

"Snobbery" is a difficult term to accurately use. Used by others, it is quite often a judgement unfairly impressed because they classify whatever they do into "higher class" and "lower class", usually arbitrarily, but very frequently influenced by the social media, often relative to the monetary value (also often arbitrary) the society labels the said activity/interest/object with. This suddenly places Chopin in "higher quality" category than, say, Queen, never mind that historically there is a little difference in the societal perception of them.

 

The second, used to judge yourself, indicates that you are easily influenced by others' opinions with no set of priorities for yourself. These kinds of people are duped into buying a painting that depicts three black lines with some inane title such as "Eternity 4.3" because it's priced at $50000, not because they like it.

 

I am assuming that the term, in this case, is applicable to the first scenario, in which using a fountain pen is already perceived as snobbish in today's world where most correspondences are on Facebook or Twitter.

 

The article addresses "snobbery" in terms of scenario two (or so it seemed to me);

 

 

Articles on this wine research recommend that serving cheap wine in fancy bottles or reaching for bottom shelf wine. Does that mean you should constantly deceive yourself into enjoying cheap wine? Or never spend more than $10 since we often mistake $10 bottles with $100 bottles?

 

(I'm not entirely sure why one must deceive one's self to enjoy cheap wines. Some cheap wines are excellent for me.)

 

If you write 1000 words a day for forty years, buying a custom $2000 pen might come off as cheap in the end. It's far cheaper than buying a pen you'll use once every week for only a year, at least.

 

Another bonus for me about Lamy Safaris is that I can exchange the nibs without worrying about the tines. I can't do that with my Montblanc (I'd definitely have to send it in for nib exchange with them). I don't possess a loupe to check whether the tines are still intact, so the only pens I feel comfortable messing around with in regards to nibs are Lamys.

[fpconvert]

You're entitled to your opinion.

I to use a Lamy vista in med and luuuuuvn how smooth it is. Compared to much more higher end pens, I still like how smooth my Lamy vista writes.

[JeanManuel]

Wow, this thread got a huge success! Congrats to the O.P.

The Lamy Safari/Al-Star is excellent, popular and its price is also reduced by the large volume of production.

It is robust, affordable, efficient-looking, and modest enough for the social context of work.

I do not understand the need for pride items. I think that is for the new rich. They are scared that people might not notice their recent increase of wealth, which they seem to confuse with virtue or merit, maybe because it rewards them.

But I do understand the appreciation of refinement. I do not speak of quality, since Lamy Al-stars are, in my experience, perfectly made out of very relevant materials.
But then it goes into cultural references, taste, fantasies, ... A matter too complex to discuss in this reply and which is well taken care of by other fellow members, albeit sometimes at the price of their functional focus.

[Tom Aquinas]

If you like a pen and it is comfortable thats' it game, set ,match.......and a lot of people love the Safari.

[cbaytan]

I do not understand the need for pride items. I think that is for the new rich. They are scared that people might not notice their recent increase of wealth, which they seem to confuse with virtue or merit, maybe because it rewards them.

.....

 

Not necessarily, let me try to explain. In most cases it's a part of the quest for excellence especially for who deesn't have the time/opportunity to spend lots of time in the internet. The logic is simple. If those pen became legendary it must be something good in it for me.

 

And curiosity factor, personally I would like to try "all" pens I've heard or seen on the net even they are well regarded or not, this is the search of the perfect pen instinct either, if I had enough money I'd purchase and try them out all including pride pens, well most of them. Right now I do that as much as my wallet permits.

[migo984]

 

I don't really care either way, but I can't see what would be the point of that article in the context of this thread if it weren't to attempt to make that correlation. I would just own it if that's how you feel to be honest.

 

As I said in an earlier post I thought it was interesting article, but that I didn't agree with everything it said - "to be honest".

[migo984]

PS: @ Marie: I thought that article was terrifically interesting. Perhaps paradoxically, in view of my opening remarks in this thread, I personally believe that fountain-pen users have a refined tactile and visual appreciation of different nibs. If an expensive nib is poor, I know instantly. So do most others here, I think. However, the general conclusions of the article were absolutely amazing.

 

Yes I thought it was very interesting too, although I didn't agree with aspects of it. Doesn't harm to poke the hornets' nest now and again does it. Ouch!

 

Marie

[tonybelding]

Yes, they are sturdy but there's a lot sturdy inexpensive pens, which do not cause lively discussions. When was the last time someone went and said "I'm not trolling I just love Pelikan Future" or when people were suspected of snobbery because they dislike Sailor's Candy? Why it's okay to question whether some particular pen writes twice as good as Safari but not okay to justify whether Safari writes two times better than Rotring Surf or five times better than Platinum Preppy?

 

This.

 

Instead of all the debate about how the Safari stacks up against more expensive pens, and about who is a snob and who isn't, I'm wondering why it's the one cheap pen that gets all the attention?

 

I know the Sheaffer No-Nonsense and the Parker 45 were both inexpensive pens that were loved in their day, but their time has come and gone while the Safari is still with us. I suspect staying power is part of the reason why the Safari has such a high profile. It's known and proven in the minds of many.

 

So... What about the Monteverde Artista Crystal? What about the Pental Tradio? What about the Pilot Vortex? What about the Sailor Candy? What about the Platinum Paisir? What about the Rotring Surf?

 

Many of those haven't been around long enough to establish their reputation. And despite some gripes about the Safari's "plastic fantastic" appearance, it's actually one of the more serious-looking options in this category.

 

EDIT: Hey, what about the Sheaffer 100?

Edited September 14, 2013 by tonybelding

[Sailor Kenshin]

"Snobbery" is a difficult term to accurately use. Used by others, it is quite often a judgement unfairly impressed because they classify whatever they do into "higher class" and "lower class", usually arbitrarily, but very frequently influenced by the social media, often relative to the monetary value (also often arbitrary) the society labels the said activity/interest/object with. This suddenly places Chopin in "higher quality" category than, say, Queen, never mind that historically there is a little difference in the societal perception of them.

 

The second, used to judge yourself, indicates that you are easily influenced by others' opinions with no set of priorities for yourself. These kinds of people are duped into buying a painting that depicts three black lines with some inane title such as "Eternity 4.3" because it's priced at $50000, not because they like it.

 

I am assuming that the term, in this case, is applicable to the first scenario, in which using a fountain pen is already perceived as snobbish in today's world where most correspondences are on Facebook or Twitter.

 

The article addresses "snobbery" in terms of scenario two (or so it seemed to me);

 

 

 

(I'm not entirely sure why one must deceive one's self to enjoy cheap wines. Some cheap wines are excellent for me.)

 

If you write 1000 words a day for forty years, buying a custom $2000 pen might come off as cheap in the end. It's far cheaper than buying a pen you'll use once every week for only a year, at least.

 

Another bonus for me about Lamy Safaris is that I can exchange the nibs without worrying about the tines. I can't do that with my Montblanc (I'd definitely have to send it in for nib exchange with them). I don't possess a loupe to check whether the tines are still intact, so the only pens I feel comfortable messing around with in regards to nibs are Lamys.

 

A doctor I know has a Waterman Edson as his EDC, and he writes EVERYTHING. That's more than I'm ever likely to spend on a fountain pen.

 

My first car cost less than that.

 

But he told me that, figuring the cost-per-word, it's his biggest bargain.

 

I agree with his concept. And to each his own.

[UK Mike]

I have a number of Lamy pens including Safaris and Al Stars. Every one of them has written well from the start and when viewed as a writing tool that has to be considered a success.

I don't have an issue with the "Bauhaus" design concept, but the triangular grip doesn't suit me at all and I tend not to use the pens now because of it.

 

The other great advantage of Safaris is the low cost of replacement nibs, making nib swaps and regrinding exercises very affordable.

 

In the end it is a cheap tool - and there is no pleasure in the aesthetics of the device for me. It works every time but its not the pen I would take with me out of choice. However, like the original Mini (car) it is a classless pen. For those in the UK, the Safari has recently been seen in the hands of Alex Polizzi, The Hotel Inspector and also Nick Hewer on Countdown. The pens are everywhere.

[nakiana]

UK Mike expressed my sentiments on the Safari/Al Star pretty well. It is a solid, functional pen that I can count on to get the job done. I don't mind the grip and I can write with the pen comfortably for several pages. If I want something that does a bit more for me aesthetically, I carry a different pen. I disagree with the statements that almost all Lamys need work done on the nib. Out of the eight Lamy nibs I've had, none _had_ to have anything done to them for them to work just fine. I chose to polish some of the nibs a bit, but that is a choice I have made with many pens in the same price range.

 

I have tried other pens in the same general price range and I have not been as satisfied with them as I have been with the Lamys. That is not to say that the Lamy is a better pen, it just happens to suit my preferences better than the comparable pens that I have tried.

 

I have several more expensive pens that I enjoy more. Most write as well or better than the Lamys and they all look more attractive to me. I have also handled a good number of more expensive fountain pens that I would not choose over the Lamy, generally because they do not feel right in my hand, and some of them because I think they are unattractive. However, those are subjective judgments and many other people enjoy the pens I don't care for.

[lurcho]

 

Yes I thought it was very interesting too, although I didn't agree with aspects of it. Doesn't harm to poke the hornets' nest now and again does it. Ouch!

 

Marie

Word!

[Unky]

A very interesting thread. I have tried and tried to love my safari, but I just do not like it. I cannot find a comfortable way to hold it, the triangular grip is too narrow for me. Since i am constantly writing i get frustrated with how extremely uncomfortable it is in my hand. The nib is smooth and the converter doesn't leak so it is not a terrible writer. On the other hand it is a cheap fp that looks cheap. Especially when compared to pens like the pilot metropolitan, platinum plaisir, and sheafer 100s which look good. I can not attest to how those three write since I do not own any of them. However compared to my TWSBIs, Edisons, Monteverde, Pelikans, Rotrings, and plethora of other pens the safari simply doesn't cut.

[migo984]

Word!

 

?????

[yossiantokolitz]

People here don’t seem to like my posts so I will keep it as short as I can. It takes a lot of skill to make a 1500$ bottle of wine. It takes a different skill set to produce cheap wine that can be produced in huge quantities and still be good enough to be enjoyed daily by the multitude to which I belong. I like handmade things but appreciate, perhaps more, a good and honest industrial design. I am a simple man belonging to the large community of riffraff. Give me Esteys and Lamys and low level Sheaffers and I am happy . By the way I had a girlfriend once that used to say than no matter how much she likes stake – sometimes she wants fish.

yossi

[recluse]

 

People here don’t seem to like my posts so I will keep it as short as I can. It takes a lot of skill to make a 1500$ bottle of wine. It takes a different skill set to produce cheap wine that can be produced in huge quantities and still be good enough to be enjoyed daily by the multitude to which I belong. I like handmade things but appreciate, perhaps more, a good and honest industrial design. I am a simple man belonging to the large community of riffraff. Give me Esteys and Lamys and low level Sheaffers and I am happy . By the way I had a girlfriend once that used to say than no matter how much she likes stake – sometimes she wants fish.

yossi

 

 

There's nothing wrong in liking anything at all, including products of big industries. I'm almost ashamed to admit that I love meatloaf served in Golden Coral (it's an all-you-can-eat chain in the USA). There's nothing particular exquisite with its taste but it apparently connects with some memories long gone and I'm in heaven every time I eat it. Do I consider it one of the best dishes in the world. Of course, not.

 

Arguments and heated discussions are born when people try to absolutize their preferences. Usually it comes in the form of doubting that some purchases can be justified. But at the same time there are people who spent their hard earned money (no irony here) on pens and had to justify it for themselves and/or for their families and so on. Exaggerating, doubts about justifications therefore come almost like doubts about sanity. Hence, certain passion in discussions of such kind.

 

I, personally, am all for a good industrial design but somehow I've had troubles finding one that wouldn't leave me without one or another disappointment. And these were these particular drawbacks, from the perspective of my preferences, of course, that kept me looking for a while. Not the abstract fascination with price tags or something.

[lurcho]

@ migo985:

 

Word! You know - it's what youths say when they mean, 'I absolutely agree with you'.

 

As in, 'True dat!', 'For real', 'Fo sho'. Etcetera.

 

I'll go and take my tablets now....