Ink(S) That Behaves On School-Grade Toner-Copy Paper?

[JeremyB796]

EDIT: AFTER SOME TESTING, THIS PAPER RESPONDS TO FOUNTAIN INK THE SAME AS WALMART COPY PAPER (GEORGIA PACIFIC) This is the same paper I saw the Baystate Blue tested on and thus means I may get this ink for the blue)

STILL EDIT: Contrary to what I typed in this post, I care more about fading and bleed-through than water resistance (though that would be nice) Bleed-through being my major requirement.

 

Hello- I'm wondering if anyone knows of any inks that are surefire to behave and not feather and bleed-through the cheap toner paper that are common in highschools.

NOTE: i AM TRYING TO AVOID A CLUTTERED POST SO I APOLOGIZE IF THIS LOOKS A LITTLE RUDE...it's also 1:00 in the morning and I am brain dead...OH look! a fly! ~Fly away little buzzy~

I will fix this tomorrow and probably make it half length...

I just pulled out a sheet from last year and noticed that it's like a sponge to my Noodler's Heart of Darkness (Which I regret getting and I believe also was contaminated by my well water...go figure...last time I dilute)

 

I know that different colors may behave differently within a brand. So I am very well willing to look at more Noodler's inks.

 

Info on specifics:

Paper: W.B.Mason Toner paper

Pen: Lamy F nib pen

Pens I plan to get in the future

-Kaweco Sport Classic; Noodler's nib creeper flex.

 

>> I use about 1oz+ of ink per month...and It might get higher as I start school...(omg) (Noodler's 4.5oz is over a quarter gone)

 

Brands I was looking into:

Noodler's -I prefer the 3oz as it is cheaper in general but I may look into getting another 4.5

Lamy -Came with my pen and I like the blue :)c

Pelikan (4001)

Private Reserve -I've read bad things about this brand so I don't really look at this brand...I may take post regarding these with much less than a grain of salt.

Waterman

I chose these brands as they appear to be some of the lowest cost ones...

 

Colors:

Mainly Black, Blue, and red but I was looking as others as possibilities...except blue-black

--------------------

 

I want to use these inks For school use AND for drawing as I don't really get why people use separate inks for both-

 

I am simply looking for inks that generally don't fade much over long times and are still visible after getting wet(smearing is okay as long as the ink doesn't get totally obliterated...but this is not my priority as I won't be erasing this ink.) <- I don't need to erase the ink.

Uh...It seems the Lamy and Pelikan blues are made to be eradicated...they don't seems to mind Alcohol based markers though...(sharpies and the like)...I guess the black doesn't do this as much?

 

I was looking at Lamy because I have used it and I like it's flow and I was already familiar with the blue...I have yet to smear it so that's nice. ...I read ONCE that it fades yellow in about a year(the black)

I read that Pelikan 4001 was about the same, but it is slightly more prone to feather?

 

I guess that Waterman inks are just Waterman...A bit wetter...but I fear that it would feather more due to the higher degree of ink that would be laid down...There red looks good and I read that the ink had a glossy look?

 

And then Noodler's... the HoD was like a water fall...but I read that the plain black is nice.

I was looking at these inks:

X-feather -For obvious reasons

Black -apparently the normal black behaves well with cheaper papers?

Blue (If only there was a n-feather like blue...jk)

Bay State Blue ...I saw this stuff used on cheap walmart printer paper on a video...while not toner paper...it was nice.

________________________________

 

I am asking on what those who read this have to say...I'm in a little of a rut...I DON'T want to head about other brands as I want to try to stay cheap...I use a lot of ink it seems...I do sometimes color my drawings with sharpie markers to get in some vague stuff and it seems that the Lamy ink doesn't mind too much...It is something to consider I suppose...

 

I'm not going to get every ink know to dolphins of course but I just need a few necessary colors.

 

THANK YOU! (and I will thank you again afterwards too Cx )

Now if you excuse me... I'm going to go pass out for the night...morning...-face desk-

Edited August 29, 2013 by JeremyB796

[ac12]

I have Waterman and Cross/Pelikan, and my Cross ink is definitely less wattery than the Waterman.

So that would knock the Waterman out.

 

For me, a bottle of Cross ink is a couple $ cheaper than Waterman. But you have to use many bottles of ink to make a difference of a couple $ a bottle significant. More significant is the price between Mont Blanc and Cross. The Mont Blanc ink is almost 2x the cost of the Cross ink.

 

Your pen is also a factor.

Remember the equation for writing experience = pen + ink + paper + writer

If you have a WET pen, then no ink will make up for the amount of ink the pen puts down.

And the more ink on the paper, the more it will blot, feather and bleed through.

For crummy paper that feathers and bleeds and blots, I would recommend a dry XF or F tip.

 

BUT you need to watch out. Crummy paper with a rough or not smooth surface can be hard to write on with a XF tip. When I write on crummy paper with my XF and F tips, the pen gets scratchy, and sometimes even snags on the paper. If the paper is crummy enough, I will abandon my XF and F tips and swtich to a M tip pen that can handle the rough paper. But with the M tip, I am putting down more ink. Everything is a trade-off.

[Harlequin]

By "toner paper" do you mean laser printer paper? I am wondering b/c you mentioned seeing BSB on "cheap printer paper".

[i.like.whiskey]

I use Noodler's Black daily. This ink works great on crappy copy paper.

[hungh]

I use sailor's kiwa-guro, which admittedly is a bit on the expensive side, but it does work wonders on some papers.

( I should mention that I've never used them on toner paper, so I'm not sure how it works there)

Edited August 29, 2013 by hungh

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

It seems that Noodler's Black has a reputation as a go-to ink for such use, but I have no experience with it.

 

Lamy Blue from the bottle is a good performer, but as it is a Washable ink, it is prone to fading over time, especially on 'lowest bidder' paper that is in itself not so stable. Zero water resistance.

 

Noodler's Ottoman Azure and Diamine Sapphire performed pretty well on iffy paper, and have a practical level of water resistance.

 

Pilot Blue is another work horse Blue.

 

Noodler's Tiananmen (Red) did fairly well on poor paper, but had a tendency for bleed- show-through. But if you're going to limit its use to mark-up & error correction, it might make the grade. Its not a screaming Red, so could be used for colour-coded writing. Water resistance was just enough to recover what was written.

 

Pity that you don't care for Blue-Black inks - Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink would be a shoo-in for a person using a high volume of robust ink on cr@ppy paper. Quite economical too.

 

My tuppence worth.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sandy1

[JeremyB796]

I have Waterman and Cross/Pelikan, and my Cross ink is definitely less wattery than the Waterman.

So that would knock the Waterman out.

 

For me, a bottle of Cross ink is a couple $ cheaper than Waterman. But you have to use many bottles of ink to make a difference of a couple $ a bottle significant. More significant is the price between Mont Blanc and Cross. The Mont Blanc ink is almost 2x the cost of the Cross ink.

 

Your pen is also a factor.

Remember the equation for writing experience = pen + ink + paper + writer

If you have a WET pen, then no ink will make up for the amount of ink the pen puts down.

And the more ink on the paper, the more it will blot, feather and bleed through.

For crummy paper that feathers and bleeds and blots, I would recommend a dry XF or F tip.

 

BUT you need to watch out. Crummy paper with a rough or not smooth surface can be hard to write on with a XF tip. When I write on crummy paper with my XF and F tips, the pen gets scratchy, and sometimes even snags on the paper. If the paper is crummy enough, I will abandon my XF and F tips and swtich to a M tip pen that can handle the rough paper. But with the M tip, I am putting down more ink. Everything is a trade-off.

Yes I do understand this. ...to some extent...

 

I use quite a bit of ink as it seems people are reporting those larger Noodler's bottles lasting them over half a year...I use OVER an fluid ounce per month it seems...

-Being left handed, I am a somewhat average speed writer and I will sometimes write faster than the ink dries (this in on Canson sketch paper...the ink doesn't dry it almost seems ...slight exaggeration...)

 

The nib in my Lamy is a F-I got this knowing that they tend to run wide, however with the Lamy cartridge it came with, it looked VERY fine but with my now dead bottle of Noodler's, it looked like a wide Med. once it got to feather on the Laser paper.

 

The paper has a fine texture, with my F, it will withstand slow writing, but the inks tendency to bleedthrough will quickly destroy it with any pressure or re-writes

 

By "toner paper" do you mean laser printer paper? I am wondering b/c you mentioned seeing BSB on "cheap printer paper".

Yes, I meant Laser "jet" paper, sorry about the confusion-(righting on toner sheets would be insane to try...assuming you mean like the dot pattern ones)-

 

I use Noodler's Black daily. This ink works great on crappy copy paper.

But this ink is what I would call...well beyond crappy ;p

 

I use sailor's kiwa-guro, which admittedly is a bit on the expensive side, but it does work wonders on some papers.

( I should mention that I've never used them on toner paper, so I'm not sure how it works there)

From what I know...pigmented inks don't feather...but at $25 I might as well leave my pen in a drawer.

 

Hi,

 

It seems that Noodler's Black has a reputation as a go-to ink for such use, but I have no experience with it.

 

Lamy Blue from the bottle is a good performer, but as it is a Washable ink, it is prone to fading over time, especially on 'lowest bidder' paper that is in itself not so stable. Zero water resistance.

 

Noodler's Ottoman Azure and Diamine Sapphire performed pretty well on iffy paper, and have a practical level of water resistance.

 

Pilot Blue is another work horse Blue.

 

Noodler's Tiananmen (Red) did fairly well on poor paper, but had a tendency for bleed- show-through. But if you're going to limit its use to mark-up & error correction, it might make the grade. Its not a screaming Red, so could be used for colour-coded writing. Water resistance was just enough to recover what was written.

 

Pity that you don't care for Blue-Black inks - Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink would be a shoo-in for a person using a high volume of robust ink on cr@ppy paper. Quite economical too.

 

My tuppence worth.

 

Bye,

S1

It seems Noodler's is recommended everywhere on this forum...but as a wet ink I have my skepticism...

 

Lamy blue my fade but what about the Black kind? I draw in decent quality paper so I guess that would help with fading?

 

Um...I hate to be be picky but the Noodler's Ottoman Azure looks a bit dark...but that's just me...

...hm...the Diamine Sapphire looks pretty good...a little purple in the examples, but good...being a small amount more expensive than Noodler's (per ml) keeps it in my range I suppose...

 

By Pilot Blue- do you mean the Pilot Namiki - Blue? -The stuff that looks like its in a UFO?

-Reading around it seems permanent-ish but I care Mostly for fade proofness...

...but I can't use an ink that bleeds though like that... sorry

 

about the Noodler's Tiananmen- I can stand show through but if it bleeds then It is seen to be ruined in peoples eyes...I am desperate for one that won't bleed...

 

I can't say ALL Blue-Blacks are bad...the Noodler's 54th of Mass. looks strangely nice to me...?

I live in the US, buying that ink would cost me more...it also looks a bit washed out?

----------------------------------------

 

Okay guys...now I'm desperate Px>

 

I can't have bleedthrough as it ruins the other side...most of these sheets are double sided-err-printed...

--I just tested with some diluted and non-dilute Noodler's HoD...bleeds through even when quickly written...

I also just noticed that it is VERY thin...The toner print on the front shows through as well as my ink...

[JeremyB796]

The following text is also in the original post, if you already read this then feel free to skip. thank you~

----------

AFTER SOME TESTING, THIS PAPER RESPONDS TO FOUNTAIN INK THE SAME AS WALMART COPY PAPER (GEORGIA PACIFIC) This is the same paper I saw the Baystate Blue tested on and thus means I may get this ink for the blue)

Contrary to what I typed in this the original post, I care more about fading and bleed-through than water resistance (though that would be nice) Bleed-through being my major requirement.

[Vendome]

My Waterman inks behave themselves when writing on report templates printed on copy paper.

[Cake]

I have the same crappy paper at work and am finding that every ink I have bleeds through, including Noodler's Black (but I only have it in a Preppy with a M nib). Since I like using fountain pens at work, I will write on one side of the paper and use a XF nib so that the ink doesn't feather too badly.

 

I found a recent post about using different blues on cheap copy paper that you may find useful: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/250236-a-few-blues-on-cheap-copy-paper/

Edited August 29, 2013 by Cake

[hungh]

Ok, I just did a test with both filler paper (environotes) and copy paper (double A) with a Preppy F.

Inks: Diamine Twilight, Syrah, Ochre; Noodler's Turquoise; R&K Scabiosa, Salix; Sailor Kiwa-Guro.

 

Filler paper:

Surprisingly, none of the inks feathered. Noodler's and Diamine showed slight bleed-through (might have something to do with the way I write, though).

Copy paper:

R&K and Sailor were the only ones that didn't show any signs of feathering/bleed-through.

Diamine and Noodler's feather and bleed, especially if you tend to write with a heavier hand.

 

 

Hope this helps a bit

 

(I'll try to figure out how to upload pictures, but that'll take awhile...)

[wallylynn]

 

The toner print on the front shows through as well as my ink...

Are you sure you mean bleed-through? That's very different from show-through. Toner cannot bleedthrough since it's not liquid.

Can you post a picture?

 

I'm surprised you're having so much trouble with HoD in a F-nib Safari. I use HoD all the time on regular copy paper, even newsprint crosswords with a fast light touch. Even in my wet Ahab. Plain Black was designed for use on Newsprint, HoD was designed to be more penetrating to work on higher quality papers.

 

If you can't get ESSRI, try Diamine RI. MontBlanc Midnight Blue is also great, but expensive.

 

My bottle of BSB is *very* prone to bleeding.

[JeremyB796]

Are you sure you mean bleed-through? That's very different from show-through. Toner cannot bleedthrough since it's not liquid.

Can you post a picture?

 

I'm surprised you're having so much trouble with HoD in a F-nib Safari. I use HoD all the time on regular copy paper, even newsprint crosswords with a fast light touch. Even in my wet Ahab. Plain Black was designed for use on Newsprint, HoD was designed to be more penetrating to work on higher quality papers.

 

If you can't get ESSRI, try Diamine RI. MontBlanc Midnight Blue is also great, but expensive.

 

My bottle of BSB is *very* prone to bleeding.

 

nope, I meant show-through...thought the ink DOES bleed as well.

But even the print shows through when layed flat...thats how thin it is.

 

" HoD was designed to be more penetrating to work on higher quality papers."

That must be my issue...this paper is like a sponge as is...anymore penetration and it might as well be one.

 

With my income...the Diamine is already what I would consider expensive...

 

...prone to bleeding?....ffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF darn.

Edited August 30, 2013 by JeremyB796

[ac12]

I don't know why my posts do not seem to take. Must be operator error.

So again....

 

Try a XF nib in your Lamy.

 

I measured the width of the tip of my Lamy F nib at 0.030 inch.

That is the same as my Parker M tips.

And the wet M tip on my Parker is what gives me the most problems with feathering and bleed through, with the amount of ink that it lays down.

 

As for writing pressure, it should be as LIGHT as possible, just enough to control the pen.

Unless you have a tail heavy pen, you do not need to press down on the tip.

Edited August 30, 2013 by ac12

[JeremyB796]

My Waterman inks behave themselves when writing on report templates printed on copy paper.

Okay then I will consider this ink a bit more

 

I have the same crappy paper at work and am finding that every ink I have bleeds through, including Noodler's Black (but I only have it in a Preppy with a M nib). Since I like using fountain pens at work, I will write on one side of the paper and use a XF nib so that the ink doesn't feather too badly.

 

I found a recent post about using different blues on cheap copy paper that you may find useful: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/250236-a-few-blues-on-cheap-copy-paper/

Thanks! I think I may have seen that page before...hmm...

Looks like Lamy is there and that is my cheapest option as well.

 

However, I don't get to see the opposite side and can't really tell about the bleeding...

 

Ok, I just did a test with both filler paper (environotes) and copy paper (double A) with a Preppy F.

Inks: Diamine Twilight, Syrah, Ochre; Noodler's Turquoise; R&K Scabiosa, Salix; Sailor Kiwa-Guro.

 

Filler paper:

Surprisingly, none of the inks feathered. Noodler's and Diamine showed slight bleed-through (might have something to do with the way I write, though).

Copy paper:

R&K and Sailor were the only ones that didn't show any signs of feathering/bleed-through.

Diamine and Noodler's feather and bleed, especially if you tend to write with a heavier hand.

 

 

Hope this helps a bit

 

(I'll try to figure out how to upload pictures, but that'll take awhile...)

Woah- Thanks for the quick comparison!

I actually like R&K after looking it up...it's actually dark enough to use as a place holder for black...~YAY for breaking rules~

 

-I will add these to a bit of a mental avoid list C:

----------

 

Okay it seems my current options are:

 

Black:

Noodler's Black

Noodler's X-feather <-If that ink fails then I suppose all inks will

Lamy

Pelikan/Cross The Lamy ink is cheaper and apparently feathers less

Scribal Work Shop Cryptid It is apparently good and looks nice to boot?

 

 

Blue:

Lamy

Pelikan/Cross The Lamy ink is cheaper and apparently feathers less

Private Reserve American Blue OH NOES! I read it feathered a lot...must...verify...it's also very wet it seems...But noodler's is wet and that ink seems to be good for people... It seems fine now that I looked more...most say if doesn't...nevermind it seems to smear, I don't like to dilute either...I like true color

Noodler's Ottoman Azure (changed my mind and don't mind the darkness...though it is pushing it)

Noodler's blue (...idk)

Scribal Work Shop Cryptid

 

Blue Black:

Rohrer & Klingner Salix

 

 

Questionable blue:

Noodler's Baystate Blue (I think it MAY work with this specific paper....consider it's simmilarities to the paper I use at home and how well it works)

 

Red:

Waterman

Scribal Work Shop Cryptid didn't find much info on this ink...so Meh

Sheaffer Scrip red found great reviews and is used by some for grading...school grade paper...what I'm looking for(ink wise P:)

Lamy

 

Possible Black usage:

Rohrer & Klingner Scabiosa (I really love the color...I can probably get away with writing with this)

--------------------

Waterman isn't in the Black and/or blue area because it is wetter and more expensive than Lamy and the Pelikan...

 

I will start to remove things from this list as you guys provide more opinions and tips-or I'll probably post a new one...maybe just cross out in this one too.

 

so...many...options...

Edited August 30, 2013 by JeremyB796

[JeremyB796]

I don't know why my posts do not seem to take. Must be operator error.

So again....

 

Try a XF nib in your Lamy.

 

I measured the width of the tip of my Lamy F nib at 0.030 inch.

That is the same as my Parker M tips.

And the wet M tip on my Parker is what gives me the most problems with feathering and bleed through, with the amount of ink that it lays down.

 

As for writing pressure, it should be as LIGHT as possible, just enough to control the pen.

Unless you have a tail heavy pen, you do not need to press down on the tip.

Hmm...I will have to buy an XF nib but I fear the nib would be a bit sharp for the paper...scraping up balls of it and all...

 

I actually think my lamy F ACTUALLY IS an F unlike what some say...With the Lamy ink it made a thin crisp line...but the blue is washable and such so I can't use that when sketching...

 

I usually apply very little pressure to the pen, rarely do I feel I need to press to get a little of a thicker line when sketching.

[ac12]

I use Sheaffer Scrip red.

It seems a nice red to me. I tried it in my italic nib, but have not yet inked up a pen with it. I will probably not ink a pen up till the Christmas holiday. Just so I don't have an idle pen that is inked up.

It is not so bright that I could not look at a whole page of it. But some may prefer a darker red.

At some point I will be mixing my own red/back, Scrip red + black, to get a deeper red. But that is ways off.

And it is relatively cheap.

 

The problem with nib grades is that it is only good within a brand, not across brands.

So you DO have a Lamy F tip. But compared to my Parkers, it is a Parker M tip that is closest in size to the Lamy tip.

I also have Chinese F tips which are even smaller than the Parker F tips.

That is why I stared to measure my tips, so I can compare between brands.

Edited August 30, 2013 by ac12

[JeremyB796]

I use Sheaffer Scrip red.

It seems a nice red to me. I tried it in my italic nib, but have not yet inked up a pen with it. I will probably not ink a pen up till the Christmas holiday. Just so I don't have an idle pen that is inked up.

It is not so bright that I could not look at a whole page of it. But some may prefer a darker red.

At some point I will be mixing my own red/back, Scrip red + black, to get a deeper red. But that is ways off.

And it is relatively cheap.

 

The problem with nib grades is that it is only good within a brand, not across brands.

So you DO have a Lamy F tip. But compared to my Parkers, it is a Parker M tip that is closest in size to the Lamy tip.

I also have Chinese F tips which are even smaller than the Parker F tips.

That is why I stared to measure my tips, so I can compare between brands.

 

The Sheaffer reb does look like a good red- I will look into that one too.

 

I know that it varies between brands so I can' really compare, but I mean that it writes finer than most other Lamy F examples I found online...so maybe I just happend to get a finer fine?

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

For detailed & wide-ranging real world fading tests under daylight, I suggest taking a shufti at the Fade Olympics. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/248800-fade-olympics-2013-sponsored-by-tlvpp/

 

Fading due to paper constituents is a different thing altogether, so I suggest that you check with the manufacturer to determine the archival standard it meets, if any. It may be the case that institutional purchasing guidelines mandate the minimum standard for paper. You may be pleasantly surprised (fingers crossed) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-free_paper http://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/care/deterioratebrochure.html

 

 

ESSRI cost, including shipping, is about $4/oz (GBP10.50/110ml). http://www.registrarsink.co.uk/registrars_ink.html

 

Noodler's Ottoman Azure, and most other FP inks, can be diluted with [distilled] water to adjust the value (light - dark) to suit a given pen+paper combo.

 

R&K Salix is Blue-Black. R&K Scabiosa is an elusive 'dusky rose' colour.

 

It seems that your quest for a Red ink that meets all your requirements is not likely to be successful, so you may need to reconsider the priority of the various properties / buy more than one Red ink. Also consider inks that lean toward Burgundy.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited August 30, 2013 by Sandy1

[JeremyB796]

Hi,

 

For detailed & wide-ranging real world fading tests under daylight, I suggest taking a shufti at the Fade Olympics. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/248800-fade-olympics-2013-sponsored-by-tlvpp/

 

Fading due to paper constituents is a different thing altogether, so I suggest that you check with the manufacturer to determine the archival standard it meets, if any. It may be the case that institutional purchasing guidelines mandate the minimum standard for paper. You may be pleasantly surprised (fingers crossed) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-free_paper http://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/care/deterioratebrochure.html

 

 

ESSRI cost, including shipping, is about $4/oz (GBP10.50/110ml). http://www.registrarsink.co.uk/registrars_ink.html

 

Noodler's Ottoman Azure, and most other FP inks, can be diluted with [distilled] water to adjust the value (light - dark) to suit a given pen+paper combo.

 

R&K Salix is Blue-Black. R&K Scabiosa is an elusive 'dusky rose' colour.

 

It seems that your quest for a Red ink that meets all your requirements is not likely to be successful, so you may need to reconsider the priority of the various properties / buy more than one Red ink. Also consider inks that lean toward Burgundy.

 

Bye,

S1

 

 

Thanks for the link!

 

...I always think that when I dilute an ink it looks a little...dead...but if I get that ink I could always leave it open for evaporate it I suppose...

I can't dilute ink with my water...being well water it sort of...destroys it. So now I have a fridge pitcher filter to take all the...sediment out. (maybe that will help...)

 

"R&K Salix is Blue-Black"

! A blue-black that doesn't look grey? (the precious) lol

 

I really don't have a requirement for a red...I don't need a strong black so the transparent/weak ones would be fine

 

-What is the whole point of iron gall inks like the salix though? I read that I should clean my pen more but not much else-

Edited August 30, 2013 by JeremyB796