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Is A Phileas Pen Really Worth Today's Price?


TwelveDrawings

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The Phil has a brass insert in the barrel; the Kultur doesn't. If the sections are interchangeable, what's in the barrel shouldn't matter as far as being able to fit Waterman carts.

Edited by Sailor Kenshin

My latest ebook.   And not just for Halloween!
 

My other pen is a Montblanc.

 

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There's another option. The Phileas and Kultur are very related. A cultur section would fit a Phileas.

 

And the Harley Davidson by Waterman pens are based on the Kultur. These prices are still "normal" if I understand right.

 

These sections could be interchanged, no need for painful operations....

 

Pulling a nib always reminds me of a dentist....

 

 

D.ick

 

Hello again John,

 

Sorry my recommendations got you no place fast, that's the story of my life. :D

 

D.ick's advice, (quoted here), is the route I would take.

 

All the best,

 

Sean :)

https://www.catholicscomehome.org/

 

"Every one therefore that shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father Who is in Heaven." - MT. 10:32

"Any society that will give up liberty to gain security deserves neither and will lose both." - Ben Franklin

Thank you Our Lady of Prompt Succor & St. Jude.

 

 

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Gregminuskin.com -- excellent nibmeister. Two week turnaround time too, a little longer overseas.

 

Harley pens are still available online at Peyton street pens for a reasonable price, maybe other places too.

 

http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/waterman-harley-davidson-fountain-pen-new.html

 

 

Have you investigated any other pens to draw with?

 

Much Love--Virginia

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Hello again John,

 

Sorry my recommendations got you no place fast, that's the story of my life. :D

 

D.ick's advice, (quoted here), is the route I would take.

 

All the best,

 

Sean :)

You pointed me to highly-regarded and obviously qualified masters of their craft. But like good business people, they have to cut out low-profit product lines.

 

Like the owners of old sports cars, Phileas owners will soon need two pens....one just for parts! :rolleyes:

 

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Gregminuskin.com -- excellent nibmeister. Two week turnaround time too, a little longer overseas.

 

Harley pens are still available online at Peyton street pens for a reasonable price, maybe other places too.

 

http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/waterman-harley-davidson-fountain-pen-new.html

 

 

Have you investigated any other pens to draw with?

 

Now, there is a sensible question. I have tried other pens but I haven't gone as far as some afficianados here. I use a plain pen, plain ink, plain paper, and plain subject matter. The Harley has gotten good word-of-mouth reputation. Still, my glossy old Phileas with its gold-plated tip is about my speed. The fact that I have two defunct barrels with bent nibs in my drawer bothers me, but does not prevent me from enjoying the several good pens I own.

 

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The Phil has a brass insert in the barrel; the Kultur doesn't. If the sections are interchangeable, what's in the barrel shouldn't matter as far as being able to fit Waterman carts.

I'm the newbie here, so I'm just trying to sort things out in my mind....not to argue. I went and found this post that seems to speak to the diff between Kultar and Phileas. Maybe I'm wrong. -- TW

Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:16

Harley Free Wheel is a Kultur with a Harley theme. They can be considered another color of Kultur.

 

The Kultur is a Phileas without the brass tube in the barrel or the fan trim at the end. Phileas always have a two tone nib, Kulturs monochrome - either gold or silver colored. Other than the color the nibs are identical.

The L'Etalon nib is also identical, though in 18k (I put one in my Harley Flames).

 

Because of the brass tube, Phileas must use a Waterman converter (or similarly slender aftermarket) while the Kultur can use a generic international long standard size.

Edited by esteroids, 02 July 2013 - 12:16.

 

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Now, there is a sensible question. I have tried other pens but I haven't gone as far as some afficianados here. I use a plain pen, plain ink, plain paper, and plain subject matter. The Harley has gotten good word-of-mouth reputation. Still, my glossy old Phileas with its gold-plated tip is about my speed. The fact that I have two defunct barrels with bent nibs in my drawer bothers me, but does not prevent me from enjoying the several good pens I own.

Can you post pictures of the damage?

 

I was struggling to say that if you used a Kultur section on a Phileas barrel, the long Waterman carts would still fit. x_x

My latest ebook.   And not just for Halloween!
 

My other pen is a Montblanc.

 

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The Brass tube is about weight, not stability.

 

The brass tube makes the barrel narrower, preventing the use of international standard cartridges that are just a bit wider at their bottom end. It has nothing to do with a loose fitting cartridge in the section part.

 

The nipples on the Waterman and the short international standard cartridges are almost the same. I have happily used long Waterman cartridges in several pens intended to take standard international size, including my Conway Stewarts.

 

But if you put a Kultur/Harley section on the Phileas Barrel, it will be as if you had your original Phileas. (maybe apart from colours)

As far as I remember from earlier topics the Phileas and Kultur sections are the same. The nibs are different. I have never had a Phileas myself, they did not sell them in the Netherlands AFAIK. But I do own two Harley pens, and the carts sit safely in them. Good steel nibs, too.

 

 

D.ick

~

KEEP SAFE, WEAR A MASK, KEEP A DISTANCE.

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

~

 

 

 

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Can you post pictures of the damage?

 

I was struggling to say that if you used a Kultur section on a Phileas barrel, the long Waterman carts would still fit. x_x

I understand now about the Kultur and Phileas barrel. That helps much.

 

Thank you for asking to see pictures of my two bent Phileas nibs. I attempted to repair them both. On the middle pen, there is little trace of the bending but the pen skips now so i know it is not properly repaired. I included one good tip in each photo for comparison.

 

--- TwelveDrawings.com

post-106135-0-13351200-1377221602_thumb.jpg

Edited by TwelveDrawings

 

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Ah. I see what's happened. Thanks for the pictures.

 

In the shots taken of the nib tops, it almost looks like you've accidentally created fude (nibs that turn up on purpose, used for drawing/Chinese characters). From the side, not so much. But if they're skipping, obviously they can't be used as a normal nib.

 

I'm wondering. Even though these are steel, not gold, do our more experienced members think these bent nibs could be fixed?

Edited by Sailor Kenshin

My latest ebook.   And not just for Halloween!
 

My other pen is a Montblanc.

 

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I have no ink in that nib so I cannot test the FUDE theory. But since that is the worst damaged nib, I have already begun soaking it. Hope I am not making a fude mistake! -- TD

 

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  • 6 months later...

I recently found this article, even though it appeararently was written years ago. It offers a very well-rounded introduction to the Phileas fountain pen, including some good-natured lampooning of its marketing. Still, the praise comes through regarding the usual highlights. An example: "The Phileas offers you inexpensive yet stylish entrée into the cult of fountain pens. It writes nicely and is easy to clean and maintain."

 

http://www.rickconner.net/penspotters/waterman.phileas.html

 

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Two Phileas pens I have are each better than every one of the 25 + Parker Sonnets I have. What's higher priced, something that costs a lot but writes well or something that costs a lot and writes poorly?

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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If there are people willing to pay 100 dollars for a 10- 15 dollar phileas(actual worth), then by gully, sellers are going to ask 100 dollars for it. Why not ? This is capitalist economy, you don`t pay for actual value, that would be insanely normal.

 

As for quality, although the build quality is (bleep), they might be good writers(only tried one once). Still, there are chinese pens that do the same job for much less money.

Edited by rochester21
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The build quality is 'bleep?' Are you sure you've actually tried one?

 

I wouldn't pay $100 for a Phileas, but there is nothing wrong with a free market.

My latest ebook.   And not just for Halloween!
 

My other pen is a Montblanc.

 

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Amazon.com, which has built its reputation on low low prices, has consistently listed brand new* Phileas fountain pens at $199 USD for a long time. The back story is that these are private vendors who are listing their wares on the Amazon site, not Amazon corporate itself. For example, there is this vendor who as of this date has new Phileas fountain pens in an assortment of colors for that price. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main/ref=olp_merch_name_1?ie=UTF8&asin=B000FNFOC6&isAmazonFulfilled=0&seller=A163PEXZF726JB

 

The more serious Phileas users here on FPN solemly vow that they can still find brand new* pens for well under $50 USD through various private sources. (We will ignore urban legends about unearthing brand new* pens at estate sales, flea markets, and defunct pen shops bearing $0.25 USD price tags.) Today's sharp-eyed buyers scoff at anyone who would pay $199 or even $99 for a brand new* Phileas.

 

While I am sure that brand new* Phileas pens do sell for less than $99 somewhere, I find no consistent source in that condition and price range. From time to time, skeptics will post a link to an instance of a Phileas selling for an extremely deep discount on an auction site. They point to this as proof their proof that ANYone could find that bargain with a little effort. But an auction site can include clueless sellers who underprice things as well as inexperienced buyers who overpay.

 

I consider the rare bargains to be exactly that.

 

I would invite those who claim that brand new* Phileas pens are bountiful for under $99 kindly share a link to such a source. I sincerely doubt that they will or even can. As time passes, I find that most bargain-priced Phileas pens are often used, damaged, out of box, or otherwise distressed. I am convinced that only an experienced and vigilant buyer can consistently find the exceptions. And rightly so. In nearly any free enterprise market, 90% of the bargains are found by the most shrewd 10% of shoppers.

 

This is my opinion as a user of the Phileas who is not a collector. I suspect that the shrewd 10% will have a field day debunking this post. I believe the other 90% might appreciate hearing the opinion of a casual buyer who has made fewer than 15 Phileas purchases in the past 5 years.

 

I doubt many SELLERS of Phileas pens will argue with me too vigorously. After all, I am asserting that the the once-inexpensive little Phileas has already become more valuable as brand new* pens become harder to find. Exactly how much more is, as rochester21 rightly stated, up to our capitalist system.

 

—TwelveDrawings

 

 

* By "brand new" I personally mean a pen that was last handled at the Waterman factory and is still in the original blue Waterman box, which contains the manual, converter, ink cartridge, and original product label on its protective sleeve. Note to newcomers: Since Phileas has been out of production for years, the phrase "brand new" is my layman's term. Among fountain pen fans, the term "New Old Stock" (NOS) is often used to describe this type of pen. However, the NOS term is not 100% standardized yet. Sometimes those initials refer to any new pen in mint condition—even if it comes with none of the other items mentioned previously. Experts will quibble with my NOS definition, which explains why I am avoiding the NOS term here.

Edited by TwelveDrawings

 

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I have two Phileas pens, fine points. I think I paid $61 for the last one on ebay. I am happy with that. $199 is a bit much, because I have bought three Carenes for less. I am left wondering what makes the Phileas worth so much in the minds of sellers. Other pens have been discontinued without this kind of price inflation.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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I hope the newcomer will not take seriously the suggestion that the build quality is bleep.

The Phileas is not my absolute favorite pen, but I have certainly tried them many more times than once.

 

It seems remarkable to me that we don't have long threads on loose brass tubes, or spring clips that don't stay on the pen or stay springy, or snap caps that won't snap. These are vulnerable areas that are normal wear and trouble spots on inexpensive pens.

A spring clip that lasts for more than a couple of years is itself remarkable at this price.

 

The build quality exceeds my expectations for a plastic pen. The design and writing qualities exceed my expectations for the price.

 

All that being said, I find paying more for a Phileas than a Charleston in the same condition crazy. But it happens fairly frequently. And that's okay with me - I prefer the Charlestons.

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Goldspot pens has a red Phileas advertised for $39.95, while other colors and Kultures are much higher. You could purchase the red one and swap the section/nib assembly.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)

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Goldspot pens has a red Phileas advertised for $39.95, while other colors and Kultures are much higher. You could purchase the red one and swap the section/nib assembly.

Buyer beware when you see the nonexistent name of "Phileas Kultur". Consider it the equivalent of someone advertising a "Volkswagen Porsche". Either it is one or the other—it cannot be both. This is a common ploy to fool unwary buyers into purchasing a low-priced Kultur for a higher Phileas price. Shame on them.

 

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