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English Parker 51 Aerometrics



Barry Gabay

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Barry Gabay

Recently, I've purchased a few English 51s, both vac & aerometric fillers. They aren't common here in the US, so I'm acquiring them slowly. I'm curious about the aerometric colors. David Shepherd's book lists four standard UK colors: teal, black, burgundy, and navy gray. I've seen some ebay listings for Forest Green UK 51s. I even have Bonham's catalogues listing Forest Green UK 51s at auction. My question: Have there been changes in the number of recognized UK colors since Shepherd's book, or are the other sources simply misinformed?

 

Thanks for your input.

Best wishes,

Barry

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Hi Barry,

 

As someone who resides in the U.K. and has bought quite a few English Parker 51s over the years, I have yet to find an English Forest Green Parker 51. I suspect that the pens described as Forest Greens have either been made in the U.S.A., perhaps non-original with English caps, or are in fact Teal 51s.

 

The burgundy English 51s can be split into two. Early production were of a dark burgundy shade similar to that found in the USA but from 1951, manufacture at Newhaven seemed to switch to a lighter shade - commonly called blood red.

 

G.

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northlodge

I would echo the above post, I have seen UK 'Forest Green' Parker 51's for sale, but have yet to see a real one. One recently listed on ebay was I belive a Green Parker 17 Lady with the hooded nib, another was what looked like a rather discoloured Grey.

 

I believe that the UK Parker 51 Vacumatic range was slightly larger than the basic acknowledged colours, as Navy Grey ( English pen English spelling ;) ) as opposed to Dove Grey is certainly available, and it has been suggested that the odd Burgundy Vac slipped out.

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Hi Barry, If it's of any help, I own one 51, this is a photo taken outside today, 11am.

It's an Aerometric, made in England, about 1958.

It's grey, I believe 'Navy grey', and the 'Dove grey' is lighter than this.

 

Edited by Mike 59
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OcalaFlGuy

IMO, This may be the quintessential Brit Aero. Bloody Brit Burgundy (though it doesn't show so well in this crappy pic) and the UK only Rolled Silver cap. Unfortunately, even after having it all apart and cleaned I never could get this one to write very well though I still have it.

 

The downside in the U.S. to the Bloody Brit Burgundy is if you ever need a hood. They are harder to come by here than a Plum hood and That's not Easy. :rolleyes:

 

Last is a slightly better pic of my other Bloody Brit Burgundy with a standard Lustraloy cap.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL2011-11-08_14-21-56_798.jpg2011-11-06_15-04-23_12.jpg

Edited by OcalaFlGuy
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I never could get this one to write very well though I still have it.

 

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL2011-11-08_14-21-56_798.jpg2011-11-06_15-04-23_12.jpg

 

Not to de-rail the thread but I was only thinking yesterday while trying to tease more flow from a newly acquired 51 aero. Why do they seem to be harder to increase flow than the 51 vacs? I've found this to be the case several times with aeros but it doesn't seem logical because the nib/feed/collector/shell set up is the same or very similar, unless I'm missing something. Has anyone else noticed the same thing?

Edited by adyf
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post-35012-0-69129800-1368981817.jpgpost-35012-0-85713100-1368981831.jpg

Hi

I have a UK forest green "51".

Pictures attached.

The imprint is quite faint but is clearly ENGLAND and date code .2. or .9. not sure which.

If anyone wants any more pictures let me know.

Is this really rare then? I bought it for about £30 on ebay last year I think.

Regards

Tim

 

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Barry Gabay

Thanks to everyone who contributed. I appreciate all of the information. I've purchased navy grey with lustraloy cap, navy grey with rolled gold, black with rolled silver, bloody red burgundy with lustraloy cap, and cordovan vac-fill with lustraloy cap. Now, I'll just need to find a teal one to have the original four colors.

 

Tim, thank you for your post and photo. Your images will certainly stir up the traditionalists. So, is Tim's pen a rarity or an extreme rarity?

 

Adyf, when I need to increase flow in a 51, whether vac or aero, I remove the shell, remove the nib, gently press the underside to widen the slit a tiny amount. This significantly increases the flow from the nib.

 

Thanks again to all.

Best,

Barry

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  • 3 years later...

Hi everyone,just to resurrect an old thread I recently found my first English 51 with the rolled silver cap. Initially suspicious about the arrow clip,it differs to my other 51's,I wondered if it came from a pencil but after seeing Bruce's above I'm a bit happier. The jewel is black,barrel burgundy.However the arrow clip seems to have a lot more feathers than the pen Bruce has,and not extending all the way to the very top of the clip meaning the chevron is quite large.My question to everybody is do you think the clip is original to the pen? Thanks David.post-7972-0-40366900-1467589825_thumb.jpeg

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I have a Mark III squared off end pen with a clip like that, bloody burgundy. Rolled gold cap.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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richardandtracy

Having had a silver cap pen with a dark green jewel, I'm wondering if they really were from Duofolds or just assembled that way originally.

 

Had I never heard of another odd colour Jewel, I'd have been happy with a swap-out explanation, now I'm less so.

Two out of the relatively few silver caps we see here sounds too high a percentage for them to have been replacements after manufacture. I think another explanation is possible: Somebody assembling the P51 silver caps dropped a box of ready made jewels, cleared up all the ones they could find on the floor & assembled pens with those regardless of the fact they'd picked up other dropped jewels - on the basis 'If it fits, it's meant to fit, so that's what's going to happen'.

It's the sort of carelessness that I've seen happen where I work, and I cannot imagine we are the only place to have people do that. Remembering back to the general reputation British Industry had in the 1960's, it's possible, though I cannot speak for Parker specifically.

 

If someone else finds a 'wrong' colour jewel on their silver cap P51, I think it would add weight to my currently rather tentative hypothesis.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

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Hi everyone,just to resurrect an old thread I recently found my first English 51 with the rolled silver cap. Initially suspicious about the arrow clip,it differs to my other 51's,I wondered if it came from a pencil but after seeing Bruce's above I'm a bit happier. The jewel is black,barrel burgundy.However the arrow clip seems to have a lot more feathers than the pen Bruce has,and not extending all the way to the very top of the clip meaning the chevron is quite large.My question to everybody is do you think the clip is original to the pen? Thanks David.attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

 

 

I agree with Flounder and I know of one restorer who rebuilds Parker 51s from whatever parts they have around, if they dont have the correct part then as long as it fits then thats ok and the customer agrees to what has been done.

 

I must admit that I like the look of your pen David KMP, perhaps better than an all original 51.

Edited by Kenlowe
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I have a Mark III squared off end pen with a clip like that, bloody burgundy. Rolled gold cap.

 

Could you take a snap Pajaro? I don't have a mk.3, but the standard mk3 clip looks more like a 61/65 clip.

 

 

 

 

I agree with Flounder and I know of one restorer who rebuilds Parker 51s from whatever parts they have around, if they dont have the correct part then as long as it fits then thats ok and the customer agrees to what has been done.

 

I must admit that I like the look of your pen David KMP, perhaps better than an all original 51.

 

I do think it quite suits David's pen even if there's a question over factory-correctitutiousity. Here's one of my rolled silver cap clips next to a Duofold AF's clip, along with the marking on the back of the Duofold clip.

 

post-29904-0-00473800-1467909442_thumb.jpg

post-29904-0-39599100-1467909433_thumb.jpg

 

As for whether the clip is original to the cap, maybe David can break out his pen-fu skills. The Duofold clip's shorter arrow will rest further up the body than a standard clip. Is there perhaps a tiny depression in the soft silver further down, indicating where another clip's arrow pressed against it for many years? You can see an extreme example of such a depression in this 51 pencil listing, erroneously described as a 'gold test' spot (the clip has been put on backwards).

Edited by Flounder

Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : vintage Pilot Elite Pocket Pen review

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inkstainedruth

I have one English made 51, a black 51 Vac. I got it for the minimum bid on eBay a couple of years ago, because no-one else bid on it. I think because there was a chip in the hood, just under the feed, and because it had the cap for a US-made 51 Special. I've done a bit of horse-trading in order to get a more correct cap, and picked up a replacement hood for $5 at a pen show. Also had it rehabbed by Danny Fudge several years ago at the Ohio Pen Show (but didn't have the replacement hood with me at the time). I didn't particularly go looking for an English made one -- or even a 51 Vac -- but that was still at the point where I was bidding on "anything that moved" that wasn't a completely horrid color like Cocoa. I didn't even really remember bidding on it (and assumed I would get outbid) because that was when I was so completely fixated on the auction for the 51 Demi Plummer that I had also bid on that week.

It doesn't get a lot of use, but I think I got a pretty decent deal on it, all in all. I should think, though, about whether or not I'm going to keep it at this point, now that I have a couple of other 51 Vacs (both Cedar Blue). I'm to the point of starting to consider thinning the stash a bit, now that I have a really good idea of what I like and don't like (one of the Cedar Blues might end up going away as well, since I've never been really happy about the way it writes).

At some point I wouldn't mind getting a BBB 51, just for completeness' sake (Plum, Burgundy, and Bloody Burgundy).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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  • 5 years later...
inkstainedruth

Well I see this thread has been resurrected.  

Since my last comment, I have gotten another English made 51, a few years ago at the Triangle Pen Show auction -- a Navy Grey Aero with an OB nib.  

Still keep hoping that a British Bloody Burgundy will fall into my lap at not TOO exorbitant a price... (I know, I know -- but hope springs eternal...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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11 hours ago, mitto said:

Only the red is a Kullock (or is it Collock?) creation. 

 

IMG_20210809_220941_369.jpg

Ariel Kullock….I have a number of his creations.

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