Newbie With A Nakaya Dream..

[trax]

Hi everyone, I'm a total newbie with experience with only very affordable pens like Pelikanos, and I have a Pilot 78G and a Schaeffer 300 on the way.

I have, of late, totally fallen in love with the Nakaya Naka-ai's at nibs.com. I see that my future could take one of two directions, either continuing to buy affordable pens and in time accumulating way too many of those, (I'm a perfume collector, so I know my patterns..) OR I could start saving for one Nakaya and stick with that. I can't be sure I'll make it happen, but I could try

 

I wondered if I could ask you if those polished Nakayas like the Naka-ai Nanohana-iro which I love the color of, are they very cold/cool to the touch? I'm just wondering as I am such a freezing cold needing blankets type of shivering gal that if a pen was very cold to the touch as say my Pelikano metal caps for instance that it would probably bother me. (I know, it must sound insane..)

 

The Sumiko/Hairline finish, or an unpolished Shu, are they warmer to the touch and should I rather look into one of those finishes being the frail freezy one that I am?

 

Any thoughts on the matter would be very much appreciated :) I just know from my collecting other things that if I had made a decision early on as to what I wanted my collection to be like, I could have perhaps made one big dream happen instead of ending up with 123 smaller ones. (I gave away 35 perfume bottles last summer and still have more than enough bottles :embarrassed_smile: I only have four perfume bottles in the collection that I would concider "Nakaya-level" bottles and they are soo dear to me! )

Edited January 26, 2013 by trax

[Wideguy]

Start saving.......there is nothing like Nakaya.The pen becomes pat of your hand nothing cold here, just a wonderful writing instrument......

 

[trax]

Start saving.......there is nothing like Nakaya.The pen becomes pat of your hand nothing cold here, just a wonderful writing instrument......

Thank you Wideguy for your reply, I was completely unprepared for what those Naka-ai images would do to me! I'm a newbie as said and more than superhappy with the nibs on my cheap Pelikanos, so for me a Nakaya would be a design thing, like buying art. Not coming from a need for a better pen, I just have to get used to the idea of saving up for a piece of art, as opposed to spending money on something I need. But it feels like my entire being craves that pen! I used to want a Sailor Pro Gear, and then I thought about Pelikan M200, but when I saw these clipless pens, oh my, all other pens just lost their shine..

Edited January 26, 2013 by trax

[geoduc]

The Nakaya pens warm up quickly in your hand, so I don't think you need to worry about it feeling cold.

 

They're beautiful pens, no doubt. They are also wonderful writing pens, so you get functional art. I am a little concerned about recommending a Nakaya to someone new to fountain pens, though. They cost a lot of money and I would not want you to spend so much only to find out that you don't like the size of the pen or the weight or whatever.

[vibin247]

I too dream of a Nakaya, but I'm purchasing a Platinum with an EF in about a week's time. I'm noticing that my writing is getting smaller and that Japanese fine nibs are going to be my staple for some time. I do love Western nibs for expression, but it just makes my writing that much more harder to read I'm of the opinion that having a smaller collection of great writers is better than a large collection of dry pens, especially if you want to have a regular rotation of writing with your pens. After all, it's the movement of the inked pen on paper that makes it so gratifying, no?

[trax]

The Nakaya pens warm up quickly in your hand, so I don't think you need to worry about it feeling cold.

 

They're beautiful pens, no doubt. They are also wonderful writing pens, so you get functional art. I am a little concerned about recommending a Nakaya to someone new to fountain pens, though. They cost a lot of money and I would not want you to spend so much only to find out that you don't like the size of the pen or the weight or whatever.

Thank you for your reply and I totally understand your concern! I have large hands for a woman, I am quite tall, so I can't imagine any pens being too large at least. I would have more doubt about piccolo sizes. I have a very dysfunctional way of holding my pen while I write, I'll add photo, and the way I hold the pen eats up alot of the pen length. I have nothing wrong with my hands and surprisingly I have a very nice handwriting, but I cannot write in any other way so large or normal sized pens is a must

I like my moms Rotring 600 though I find the nib too stiff, and I also love my superlight Pelikanos so weight does not matter much to me

 

I write for hours every day, I'm on disability so I have alot of time on my hands. I can sit and play with the Pelikanos for hours so I would probably never regret a Nakaya if I can make it happen. Here's the stupid way I hold my pens that eat up all the pen length, showing a Pelikano here:

 

http://i.imgur.com/d1rmSDWl.jpg

[trax]

I too dream of a Nakaya, but I'm purchasing a Platinum with an EF in about a week's time. I'm noticing that my writing is getting smaller and that Japanese fine nibs are going to be my staple for some time. I do love Western nibs for expression, but it just makes my writing that much more harder to read I'm of the opinion that having a smaller collection of great writers is better than a large collection of dry pens, especially if you want to have a regular rotation of writing with your pens. After all, it's the movement of the inked pen on paper that makes it so gratifying, no?

Congrats on the planned purchase! :clap1: My writing is worse with small nibs, I must have medium nibs or broader I kind of envy the ones of you who can write small and still beautiful!

I agree it is the feel of the pen and ink to paper that makes it so captivating and makes us play for hours, and also colors and design make me day dream so I would expect to get some really creative writing from writing with a green or burnt orange color Naka-ai

In my perfume collection I bought soo many bottles over the years just cuz there was a great offer/good price etc. In the end all those bottles amounted to quite some money, money I could have used for the real Holy Grail perfumes had I waited and saved, so this time I want to think it through right from the beginning

Edited January 26, 2013 by trax

[Hennypenny]

It's a personal decision, of course. I have many pens, and I always enjoy inking up pens I haven't used in a while and playing with them. BUT I get the most enjoyment from just a few, Including a Nakaya or two. I just bought a Neo-Standard in unpolished shu ( red), and could live with it alone for a long, long time. So I think you're wise to decide now how you want to proceed.... HP

 

BTW, I have average to small hands, and the Neo isn't too large. The Naka-ai is about the same size, so I don't think it would be too large - quite comfortable, actually.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Hennypenny

[trax]

It's a personal decision, of course. I have many pens, and I always enjoy inking up pens I haven't used in a while and playing with them. BUT I get the most enjoyment from just a few, Including a Nakaya or two. I just bought a Neo-Standard in unpolished shu ( red), and could live with it alone for a long, long time. So I think you're wise to decide now how you want to proceed.... HP

 

BTW, I have average to small hands, and the Neo isn't too large. The Naka-ai is about the same size, so I don't think it would be too large - quite comfortable, actually.

Thank you for your reply, Hennypenny, and congrats on the unpolished shu, that color and finish is sooo beautiful!

I read on a thread here somewhere someone saying they had bought a Nakaya a year or two back and after that he/she hadn't bought another fountain pen as the Nakaya just filled their need and outranked all other pens anyway It was when reading that I started thinking that perhaps over the years I could choose a few insanely expensive ones carefully (cuz I'm such a sucker for design and my Dad was an artist) instead of buying loads of ten and twenty dollar pens on eBay. I currently have 15 pens in my wish list on eBay, all cheap pens and I really want them all, but I can see me really gong down a bad path if I am not reined in early by some bigger goal that makes all those pens uninteresting.. :embarrassed_smile: I want to steer my life in a more simplistic direction, in other words fewer things but quality things. I got rid of more than 500 things last year, gave away clothes, kitchenalia, interior decor items, you name it, all kinds of things. I want to have space and order around me, and a very small but inspiring collection.

 

I only just saw pictures of the unpolished shu finish yesterday, I hadn't really looked through all the Nakaya pictures, I just stumbled over the pic of the green Naka-ai and forgot to check the rest. The shu color is at least equally beautiful if not more

 

Thank you again for your reply, I am trembling with excitement over this Nakaya idea!

Edited January 26, 2013 by trax

[JLS1]

Well, I don't have a Naka-ai but I do have a Neo Standard in Aka-Tamenuri so I can give you some advice based on my experience:

 

1. Pen Temperature & weight: I've never found my Neo Standard to be hot or cold when I use it - to paraphrase the 3 little bears "It's just right". I do find the pen warms up in my hand when I use it but not by much. With that said, one thing you will find out about Nakayas is that they are fairly light-weight pens no matter how large they appear to be, which should be good for you since you said that you write for long periods of time.

 

2. Nib choice: You mentioned that you wanted to get a Medium-broad nib, but I just want to make sure that you are aware that Japanese nibs are usually 1 size smaller than western nibs, so a Nakaya broad = Pelikan medium. Also, given the way you grip your pen (which some here might call 'the death grip'), I would strongly suggest talking to/dealing with Nibs.com: you avoid having to deal w/Nakaya (who speak mostly Japanese) and John Mottishaw can adjust your nib to your writing style before you receive it. Also, you can choose whether you want a flex nib or a 'nail' (firm, non-flex nib).

 

3. Price and value: Nakayas are not (I repeat NOT) cheap. I bought my Neo Standard used and even though I got a good price, it's still the most expensive pen in my collection (which includes several MB Meisterstucks and other vintage German pens) With that said, Nakayas do hold their value well, so if you make a mistake, you can usually sell your pen for close to what you bought it. IMHO, it's worth the money.

 

HTH - one suggestion is to contact/PM Ethernautrix as she's got a Naka-ai (among several Nakayas) and would be able to give you a first-hand account of the pen. (As an added bonus, if you're ever visiting SF, she'll organize a Pen Posse meeting, which will open you up to more pen options than you thought possible)

[JLS1]

One other thing that just occurred to me...I remember that you said that you write a lot. FWIW, I don't think the Platinum/Nakaya converters hold a great deal of ink so be aware that you might have to refill more often than you're doing now. If this is going to be a big deal for you, you might want to look at Pilot Custom 823(?), which is an urushi pen but has the ability to accept converters with larger ink capacities (Pilot CON-50 and CON-70, although you'd need to confirm this w/someone more familiar with the Pilot line, like Stan)

[trax]

Well, I don't have a Naka-ai but I do have a Neo Standard in Aka-Tamenuri so I can give you some advice based on my experience:

 

1. Pen Temperature & weight: I've never found my Neo Standard to be hot or cold when I use it - to paraphrase the 3 little bears "It's just right". I do find the pen warms up in my hand when I use it but not by much. With that said, one thing you will find out about Nakayas is that they are fairly light-weight pens no matter how large they appear to be, which should be good for you since you said that you write for long periods of time.

 

2. Nib choice: You mentioned that you wanted to get a Medium-broad nib, but I just want to make sure that you are aware that Japanese nibs are usually 1 size smaller than western nibs, so a Nakaya broad = Pelikan medium. Also, given the way you grip your pen (which some here might call 'the death grip'), I would strongly suggest talking to/dealing with Nibs.com: you avoid having to deal w/Nakaya (who speak mostly Japanese) and John Mottishaw can adjust your nib to your writing style before you receive it. Also, you can choose whether you want a flex nib or a 'nail' (firm, non-flex nib).

 

3. Price and value: Nakayas are not (I repeat NOT) cheap. I bought my Neo Standard used and even though I got a good price, it's still the most expensive pen in my collection (which includes several MB Meisterstucks and other vintage German pens) With that said, Nakayas do hold their value well, so if you make a mistake, you can usually sell your pen for close to what you bought it. IMHO, it's worth the money.

 

HTH - one suggestion is to contact/PM Ethernautrix as she's got a Naka-ai (among several Nakayas) and would be able to give you a first-hand account of the pen. (As an added bonus, if you're ever visiting SF, she'll organize a Pen Posse meeting, which will open you up to more pen options than you thought possible)

Thank you soo much for all this great information! So I need a broad nib probably. I had already decided if I manage to save up to buy it from nibs.com and contact them about that very upright crazy way I hold my pen, ouch is it known as the death grip?! Is it a very rare way of holding the pen?

 

I actually tried sending Ethernautrix a pm before starting this thread ;D but upon sending it I just received an automatic response saying "This member can not receive any more messages." So that's when I started this thread instead :)I haven't been around here for a long time but already noticed that she was the Empress of Nakayas

 

I have just rented a very small apartment in the countryside with very cheap rent due to poor isolation and no noise cancelling at all between neighbors on the other sides of the walls If I had had my previous normal rent I could not have even contemplated saving up for this pen. I'm on disability and I live abit like a recluse, keeping to myself. I never travel anywhere, I never go to the hairdresser, I have no car or transportation expenses, I don't drink or smoke, I almost only have my rent and a small phone bill.

 

I like that you say they are light in weight as my Pelikanos weigh next to nothing and I'm not used to heavier pens exept for my moms Rotring 600 which I steal sometimes, but that was okay too. And I definitively don't want a stiff nib, that is very important for me, a stiff nib just makes me go cold

 

I have learned alot today, oh and that Aka-Tamenuri finish is beautiful too, so organic and earthy deep in color, comforting/calming to look at!

Best of wishes from Bella, and again thank you soo much for your good advice! :)

[trax]

One other thing that just occurred to me...I remember that you said that you write a lot. FWIW, I don't think the Platinum/Nakaya converters hold a great deal of ink so be aware that you might have to refill more often than you're doing now. If this is going to be a big deal for you, you might want to look at Pilot Custom 823(?), which is an urushi pen but has the ability to accept converters with larger ink capacities (Pilot CON-50 and CON-70, although you'd need to confirm this w/someone more familiar with the Pilot line, like Stan)

I dont mind refilling often, but that is a good point you make there. It's probably very relaxing to have greater ink capasity when writing so much.

I have no experience with Pilots, I will look into it later, though I am hard to steer off my path when I have fallen for something :)Over the years I always chose my cell phones by design too, not user friendliness, and though I did not understand all the phone menus etc I was always very happy when looking at the shiny phones :embarrassed_smile:

Thank you for your patience in informing me of all this, there's a lot of things to think about here. And I will have to cross an inner barrier too if I am to dish out that much money on a pen, any pen! But knowing myself I would never regret it, I have never regret anything Iv'e spent money on, once the money is gone it's gone, and as long as there's food in the fridge I don't think much more about it

[AltecGreen]

If this is going to be a big deal for you, you might want to look at Pilot Custom 823(?), which is an urushi pen but has the ability to accept converters with larger ink capacities (Pilot CON-50 and CON-70, although you'd need to confirm this w/someone more familiar with the Pilot line, like Stan)

 

 

You are thinking of the Custom 845.

[vibin247]

 

Thank you soo much for all this great information! So I need a broad nib probably. I had already decided if I manage to save up to buy it from nibs.com and contact them about that very upright crazy way I hold my pen, ouch is it known as the death grip?! Is it a very rare way of holding the pen?

 

 

Nibs.com is definitely the site (at least that I've found) for ordering Nakayas. John Mottishaw has the reputation of being one of the best nibmeisters anywhere, so he can attune the nib to your specifications. When it comes to choosing the nib size, you also have to take into account what ink and paper combination you will be using, because different combinations can produce different results. Also, if a nib has semi-flex or is fully flexible, then you can achieve variable line width on the same pen, a Holy Grail for some people. Stiff nibs with no flex will produce a consistent line, but you can have some variance depending on the angle of the nib to paper and stroke pressure. As far as your hand grip, it looks like your thumb might be pressing too hard into the pen, which then adds additional pressure towards the middle finger and can cause cramping. I suggest looking at FPN member caliken's pages on better handwriting techniques, especially when you search for the "tripod grip." I too, suffered from the middle-finger bump until I started using the tripod grip, and moving more with the wrist and arm, and less with the fingers.

 

If you're not particular about filling your pen, then cartridge-converter pens like Nakayas will be fine. They're easier to clean with bulb syringe and an empty cartridge (InkNouveau.com has nice tutorials on pen maintenance). The thing about closed mechanisms like piston fillers (with the exception of the TWSBI piston fillers, which you can disassemble for maintenance) is that they can take a LONG time to completely flush out when doing regular cleaning or switching between inks. I don't know of any urushi lacquered Pilots, except for the Namiki line (with the exception of the Falcon), which has incredibly beautiful maki-e painted bodies and caps. Now those are mighty expensive!

Edited January 26, 2013 by vibin247

[trax]

Nibs.com is definitely the site (at least that I've found) for ordering Nakayas. John Mottishaw has the reputation of being one of the best nibmeisters anywhere, so he can attune the nib to your specifications. When it comes to choosing the nib size, you also have to take into account what ink and paper combination you will be using, because different combinations can produce different results. Also, if a nib has semi-flex or is fully flexible, then you can achieve variable line width on the same pen, a Holy Grail for some people. Stiff nibs with no flex will produce a consistent line, but you can have some variance depending on the angle of the nib to paper and stroke pressure. As far as your hand grip, it looks like your thumb might be pressing too hard into the pen, which then adds additional pressure towards the middle finger and can cause cramping. I suggest looking at FPN member caliken's pages on better handwriting techniques, especially when you search for the "tripod grip." I too, suffered from the middle-finger bump until I started using the tripod grip, and moving more with the wrist and arm, and less with the fingers.

 

If you're not particular about filling your pen, then cartridge-converter pens like Nakayas will be fine. They're easier to clean with bulb syringe and an empty cartridge (InkNouveau.com has nice tutorials on pen maintenance). The thing about closed mechanisms like piston fillers (with the exception of the TWSBI piston fillers, which you can disassemble for maintenance) is that they can take a LONG time to completely flush out when doing regular cleaning or switching between inks. I don't know of any urushi lacquered Pilots, except for the Namiki line (with the exception of the Falcon), which has incredibly beautiful maki-e painted bodies and caps. Now those are mighty expensive!

Thank you for all the good advice! My handgrip is very light, I checked now and theres almost no pressure from any fingers or angles. I cannot remember even once having gotten cramped up when writing, and I write alot All other grips feel very alien to me, but I will sure look into those handwriting techniques. I also move my wrist, not my fingers as the fingers are kind of completely taken out of the equation with my hand just resting around the pen like that. I don't remember the picture I posted now, but I may have hung on to the pen harder there as I was handling the camera with my left hand and kind of leaning sideways

 

I want a nib that produces a constant line, like my Pelikanos. I have no experience with flex nibs, but I know I feel the nib on my Moms Rotring 600 is waaay too stiff, so I just want a little give in it so that it does not feel locked, if that makes any sense? I am not going to learn any calligraphy, just improving on my own handwriting, and as I am only used to Pelikanos and trying out other peoples Lamy's I will only need the least expensive of the Nakaya nib options, anything else would be pearls for swine at this point

 

I like to change ink very often so a pen that rinses quickly is valuable here. Oh you've provided me with soo much good information! I have no idea about pen maintenance either so I'll check that out too, thank you! :)

 

I will reread this more tomorrow, so much to learn! Now I will go drool over all the colors and finishes of the Naka-ai's again. I'm gonna have som nice "wet nib" dreams tonight Oh there's another thing, I like my pens very wet, with a rich flow, no dryness, I guess John Mottishaw can make that happen for any nib? And are there any downsides to having a very wet nib? I am never in a hurry to having the things I write dry up.

 

Ok, now over to nibs.com to drool :)

 

Edit, I have a light grip within the grip but the pressure against the paper is somehow still not as light as I wish it'd been, I see that now..

Edited January 26, 2013 by trax

[JLS1]

If this is going to be a big deal for you, you might want to look at Pilot Custom 823(?), which is an urushi pen but has the ability to accept converters with larger ink capacities (Pilot CON-50 and CON-70, although you'd need to confirm this w/someone more familiar with the Pilot line, like Stan)

 

 

You are thinking of the Custom 845.

 

D'OH! My bad - thanks Ricky!

[Frank C]

I want a nib that produces a constant line, like my Pelikanos. I have no experience with flex nibs, but I know I feel the nib on my Moms Rotring 600 is waaay too stiff, so I just want a little give in it so that it does not feel locked, if that makes any sense? I am not going to learn any calligraphy, just improving on my own handwriting, and as I am only used to Pelikanos and trying out other peoples Lamy's I will only need the least expensive of the Nakaya nib options, anything else would be pearls for swine at this point

 

I like to change ink very often so a pen that rinses quickly is valuable here. Oh you've provided me with soo much good information! I have no idea about pen maintenance either so I'll check that out too, thank you! :)

 

I will reread this more tomorrow, so much to learn! Now I will go drool over all the colors and finishes of the Naka-ai's again. I'm gonna have som nice "wet nib" dreams tonight Oh there's another thing, I like my pens very wet, with a rich flow, no dryness, I guess John Mottishaw can make that happen for any nib? And are there any downsides to having a very wet nib? I am never in a hurry to having the things I write dry up.

 

Ok, now over to nibs.com to drool :)

 

Mr. Mottishaw has a 1-10 scale for wetness. I usually get a 6 or 7. Wet nibs put more ink on the paper, so drying time is longer, the lines may be wider, and show-through is more likely. Left-handed people usually prefer a drier nib and drier ink to decrease the incidence of smudging.

 

I have several Nakayas and they are among my favorite pens. Each is a little handmade piece of Japanese art. I have some inexpensive pens that write well and some expensive pens that don't. Over a certain price, writing quality does not improve with cost.

 

Most of all, I recommend that you have fun with your pens. They are useful tools that have artistic flair.

[trax]

 

Mr. Mottishaw has a 1-10 scale for wetness. I usually get a 6 or 7. Wet nibs put more ink on the paper, so drying time is longer, the lines may be wider, and show-through is more likely. Left-handed people usually prefer a drier nib and drier ink to decrease the incidence of smudging.

 

I have several Nakayas and they are among my favorite pens. Each is a little handmade piece of Japanese art. I have some inexpensive pens that write well and some expensive pens that don't. Over a certain price, writing quality does not improve with cost.

 

Most of all, I recommend that you have fun with your pens. They are useful tools that have artistic flair.

A 1-10 wetness scale that is very useful to know, and seems one can get very accurately what one wants then! This is so cool, I've learned something new and relevant with each post now, I have alot more to go on when deciding thanks to all of you here!

 

They truly are pieces of art, I can just stare at those Nakaya pictures and sit there for a long time. It also seems they have a very special place in the hearts of all who own one

 

The reason I have so many Pelikanos is I bought more and more looking for a wetter nib, they had different ink flows all these Pelikanos, even in the same size nib. I finally found a really juicy M nib and have used that one since So ink flow will be important. Man this isn't just ordering a pen by listing the name like with the cheap pens, is it? ;D Not like when I go to the book store and say I want three Pelikanos in Medium nib and then leave with them two seconds later. I hope I can decide between all these nibs and flows and finishes and and and You all here have been extremely helpful in guiding me in what I'll have to decide before ordering.

 

Thank you Frank C so much for additional great info here! :)

[geoduc]

 

I want a nib that produces a constant line, like my Pelikanos. I have no experience with flex nibs, but I know I feel the nib on my Moms Rotring 600 is waaay too stiff, so I just want a little give in it so that it does not feel locked, if that makes any sense? I am not going to learn any calligraphy, just improving on my own handwriting, and as I am only used to Pelikanos and trying out other peoples Lamy's I will only need the least expensive of the Nakaya nib options, anything else would be pearls for swine at this point

 

I like to change ink very often so a pen that rinses quickly is valuable here. Oh you've provided me with soo much good information! I have no idea about pen maintenance either so I'll check that out too, thank you! :)

 

I will reread this more tomorrow, so much to learn! Now I will go drool over all the colors and finishes of the Naka-ai's again.

 

The regular Nakaya nibs have a nice bit of springiness and are not too stiff. The 'soft' Nakaya nibs are even more springy, but I think they're a little harder to control. They are for me, anyway.

 

If you decide to get a Naka-ai, then I would recommend that you purchase this cleaning kit along with it: http://www.nibs.com/NakayaOptionsAccessoriesInkCleaningKit.html I haven't needed to use the little cleaning packets yet, but the plastic bulb is very handy for flushing the Nakayas with a short section like the Naka-ai.

 

It's hard to choose a finish, isn't it? They're all beautiful and look even better in person than they do in photos.