How Small A Nib Should I Go?

[stevesurf]

Off Topic:

My mormon girl is showing again.... I don't know if I can read conversations without blushing. I think I'm too young to know "handle Frank's cigar" and "long" v "short" piccolos. I'm sure "polishing" is illegal in this county. Okay, I'll get my mind out of the gutter soon. (But other than that, I like the unpolished versions)

Fascinating

 

Off Topic:

Steve and I "found" some cigars that we suspected might be contraband. Courtney, at Arturo Fuente, forced us to destroy them by burning. She also forced us to consume adult beverages while burning the cigars.

Any further questions should be directed to my legal counsel.

 

Frank C

Quite logical, Frank. The cigars had to be destroyed in a public place. You'll be happy to know the remainder of the contraband was also burned. In fact, in Wash DC with several public officials in witness burning their own, simultaneously. We later logged the event with some cigar shaped fountain pens.

 

[Frank C]

Good. Now you just need to get a Nakaya Cigar!

[ethernautrix]

I'm staying out of this.

 

I want everyone to know that I'm intentionally staying out of this.

 

:-)

[stevesurf]

I'm staying out of this.

 

I want everyone to know that I'm intentionally staying out of this.

 

:-)

Please don't; we have not even reached 50 posts yet. I still need to experience confusion, pen fantasization and buyer's remorse

 

Do you like the long Piccolo because it is so different from your other pens, like the Agatha Christie, or Nakayas are better longer or another reason?

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

I wish I had seen this earlier since I have extensive experience with technical pens since I used them before I got into fountain pens back when I was 9 or 10.

 

Personally I think that the extra fine should match up with the 0.30 mm technical pen. I have that nib and have seen many, and out of the box, that's what they were closest to. My super extra fine is closest to a 0.13 technical pen point. It was closest to a 0.2 out of the box (as were the others I have seen) (actually, 0.13 mm up and down but 0.2 mm side to side), but I refined the grind slightly to make it 0.13 mm up and down as well as side to side.

 

Of course there are variations, but the super extra fine could be much too fine for you out of the box. It's not the easiest nib to handle and needs a very delicate touch like the 0.13 and 0.18 technical pens I have. It is still easier to handle than either though. I did end up regrinding all my Nakaya nibs to make them give me cleaner lines and make them write more smoothly, but I do remember quite clearly how they were out of the box.

 

Many Japanese fine nibs should come close to a 0.3 mm technical pen point in line width, although something tells me that you may be happier with an extra-fine Nakaya nib than the regular fine. Also, for reference, I use Staedtler Marsmatic 700 pens with Koh-i-noor drawing ink since that is the most common ink in these parts. All references to technical pens use this ink. I compared them side by side with the fountain pens on the same kind of paper. My fountain pens had Diamine as well as Aurora ink in them.

 

Also, about sizes, someone recently complained that the Nakaya Piccolo was too short for them. I personally like small short pens since I have small hands and I hold my pens a certain way, but you may prefer the longer sizes.

 

I hope you have a good and fulfilling quest finding the perfect Nakaya for you.

 

Dillon

Edited January 21, 2013 by Dillo

[stevesurf]

Hi,

 

I wish I had seen this earlier since I have extensive experience with technical pens since I used them before I got into fountain pens back when I was 9 or 10.

 

Personally I think that the extra fine should match up with the 0.30 mm technical pen. I have that nib and have seen many, and out of the box, that's what they were closest to. My super extra fine is closest to a 0.13 technical pen point. It was closest to a 0.2 out of the box (as were the others I have seen) (actually, 0.13 mm up and down but 0.2 mm side to side), but I refined the grind slightly to make it 0.13 mm up and down as well as side to side.

 

Of course there are variations, but the super extra fine could be much too fine for you out of the box. It's not the easiest nib to handle and needs a very delicate touch like the 0.13 and 0.18 technical pens I have. It is still easier to handle than either though. I did end up regrinding all my Nakaya nibs to make them give me cleaner lines and make them write more smoothly, but I do remember quite clearly how they were out of the box.

 

Many Japanese fine nibs should come close to a 0.3 mm technical pen point in line width, although something tells me that you may be happier with an extra-fine Nakaya nib than the regular fine. Also, for reference, I use Staedtler Marsmatic 700 pens with Koh-i-noor drawing ink since that is the most common ink in these parts. All references to technical pens use this ink. I compared them side by side with the fountain pens on the same kind of paper. My fountain pens had Diamine as well as Aurora ink in them.

 

Also, about sizes, someone recently complained that the Nakaya Piccolo was too short for them. I personally like small short pens since I have small hands and I hold my pens a certain way, but you may prefer the longer sizes.

 

I hope you have a good and fulfilling quest finding the perfect Nakaya for you.

 

Dillon

 

Thanks Dillo, for the kind thought; it's interesting that the typical Japanese fine nibs are approximately equivalent to 00 (0.30mm). See chart:

 

I find that 0 and often 00 are too broad for the extremely fine illustrations I am interested in doing. It sounds like the XXF might be a challenge, but I am used to drawing with 3x0 Koh-I-Noor. I'll call nibs.com tomorrow and ask them their opinion. BTW I too have small hands, but I feel comfortable with a wide range of pen sizes.

[Frank C]

I would say, go with the XXF. It is about the same as a Sailor Saibi Togi. I have two of those and find them acceptable for my daily use--with a little care. They do tend to pick up paper fibers; the Saibi Togi come with a little tool to floss between the tines. Besides, for a guy like you, if you don't like the XXF, you get to buy another Nakaya with an XF nib. Maybe a midori naka-ai writer. If you really don't like the XXF, you can get Mr. Mottishaw to put a different nib into it.

 

So is your goal 50 posts in this thread, or should we go for the record--whatever that is?

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

In my experience, picking up paper fibers depends on the way the nib if ground and the paper used. My pen seems to be very good at not picking up any paper fibers. I've never had to clear any fibers out of it. I've had pens that did pick up fibers, but this was solved by careful nib work.

 

Dillon

[Frank C]

Hi,

 

In my experience, picking up paper fibers depends on the way the nib if ground and the paper used. My pen seems to be very good at not picking up any paper fibers. I've never had to clear any fibers out of it. I've had pens that did pick up fibers, but this was solved by careful nib work.

 

Dillon

 

I agree with you; the propensity of a nib to pick up paper fibers depends on the shape of the tines, their relative orientation, and the paper used. The fact remains: Sailor pens with saibi togi nibs come with a tool to floss between the tines.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

I find the Saibi Togi nib to be fascinating although I've never gotten one. I think Sailor was right to include the tool because in the event that someone wanted to clean their nib, they wouldn't be using razor blades of other manner of things that shouldn't be used on nibs to clean it.

 

Dillon

[amberleadavis]

Frank and Steve, I'm so sorry I missed you guys, the fondling and trip to Aesthetic Bay. Sounds like it was very educational.

 

So, Steve, what pen have you purchased?

[Frank C]

Frank and Steve, I'm so sorry I missed you guys, the fondling and trip to Aesthetic Bay. Sounds like it was very educational.

 

So, Steve, what pen have you purchased?

 

For the record, the Nakaya portable writer XF was "handled" not "fondled"; I have only had it since last summer; it is far too young to be fondled. Aesthetic Bay was considered only as a source for pens, specifically "long piccolos"--sort of like "jumbo shrimp".

 

Please bear in mind that we were forced by Courtney to burn up our potentially contraband cigars and to drink adult beverages while watching them burn. I'm afraid that I would have had to report you to the Stake President if you participated in either of these activities.

[ink mixer]

Thanks for all the comments, well most of the comments,, on this thread. I've been thinking about a superfine nib for a while, and this thread made me realize that I should put a xxf nib next on the list. Next stop is the LA pen show.

[Frank C]

Thanks for all the comments, well most of the comments,, on this thread. I've been thinking about a superfine nib for a while, and this thread made me realize that I should put a xxf nib next on the list. Next stop is the LA pen show.

 

The Sailor saibi togi is indeed an extremely fine nib. I am able to use mine for regular writing, but I have to use a light touch. As far as I can tell, the Nakaya XXF should be about the same. I purchased my saibi togi from nibs.com. They will certainly have a table at the LA show.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

The super extra fine Nakaya is an excellent nib. I use mine for my everyday writing as well. I have a light touch and write pages and pages with it. If you like fine nibs, this is a good one. It's also nice to draw with.

 

Dillon

[ink mixer]

Thanks for all the comments, well most of the comments,, on this thread. I've been thinking about a superfine nib for a while, and this thread made me realize that I should put a xxf nib next on the list. Next stop is the LA pen show.

 

The Sailor saibi togi is indeed an extremely fine nib. I am able to use mine for regular writing, but I have to use a light touch. As far as I can tell, the Nakaya XXF should be about the same. I purchased my saibi togi from nibs.com. They will certainly have a table at the LA show.

 

My goal is to test the Saibi Togi side by side with the XXF Platinum Nakaya nib. I'm probably leaning towards a Nakaya for aesthetic reasons, but that could change once I write with both of them. I wish I could include the Pilot Po nib, but nibs.com doesn't carry them, so it doesn't seem likely.

[Frank C]

Thanks for all the comments, well most of the comments,, on this thread. I've been thinking about a superfine nib for a while, and this thread made me realize that I should put a xxf nib next on the list. Next stop is the LA pen show.

 

The Sailor saibi togi is indeed an extremely fine nib. I am able to use mine for regular writing, but I have to use a light touch. As far as I can tell, the Nakaya XXF should be about the same. I purchased my saibi togi from nibs.com. They will certainly have a table at the LA show.

 

My goal is to test the Saibi Togi side by side with the XXF Platinum Nakaya nib. I'm probably leaning towards a Nakaya for aesthetic reasons, but that could change once I write with both of them. I wish I could include the Pilot Po nib, but nibs.com doesn't carry them, so it doesn't seem likely.

 

I was not familiar with the PO nib before your post. It is a rather interesting nib. I have a Pilot WAverly nib that is fun to use. I think your best bet would be to find a pen with a Po nib in Japan on ebay. As far as Nakaya or Sailor go, it is hard to beat a Nakaya. Sailors are nice production pens; Nakayas are little handmade Japanese works of art.

[stevesurf]

Frank and Steve, I'm so sorry I missed you guys, the fondling and trip to Aesthetic Bay. Sounds like it was very educational.

 

So, Steve, what pen have you purchased?

 

Thx Amber, yes most educational!!! I gave myself both XXF Picollo Cigar and the LE Pelikan for my birthday (from the invoice Nibs.com sent me):

 

1) Nakaya Piccolo, Cigar,Araishu (Orange), with nib identified below. Single-tone Super Extra Fine 14K nib The lighter the pressure you can use with any fountain pen, especially ones with super extra fine points, the smoother they will be able to write. For an even finer line, flip this pen over and write on the top of the tip.

2) Pelikan Special Edition M101N Tortoise Shell Brown fountain pen in celluloid acetate with 24k gold-plated trim. 14k specially engraved nib indicated below Available in Fine, Medium, Broad, and Extra Broad. Retail $550 14k Fine nib unit for M101N Special Edition fountain pen

SET UP: Please set up to write as smoothly as possible for a right-handed writer using light pressure and a medium-heavy ink flow. Normally $50.00 - free with any pen or nib unit purchase from us.

[sarahfar]

great choice.... I think the next toy I buy could easily be a 800 Tortoise as soon as they are in and let him modify the nib. I used to be hot on 100 vintage and LE's but it was just a passing thing, I grew out of. I have to say though of all the 100's the tortoise is the one that would be a must, sort of like the MB 139 in the sense of the "the one" thing. And the nice thing, with a modern is that you don't have to worry about some of the maintenance issues you would with the vintage and oh, its about what 2500 lighter on the pocketbook.

 

Anyway, enjoy, I'm sure you'll love the new toys.....

[Frank C]

great choice.... I think the next toy I buy could easily be a 800 Tortoise as soon as they are in and let him modify the nib. I used to be hot on 100 vintage and LE's but it was just a passing thing, I grew out of. I have to say though of all the 100's the tortoise is the one that would be a must, sort of like the MB 139 in the sense of the "the one" thing. And the nice thing, with a modern is that you don't have to worry about some of the maintenance issues you would with the vintage and oh, its about what 2500 lighter on the pocketbook.

 

Anyway, enjoy, I'm sure you'll love the new toys.....

 

I agree with you completely. An M800 Brown Tortoise is on the wish list. What nib and modification are you planning on? I showed Steve my M101N Tortoise and Lizard; he really liked the tortoise, the lizard, not so much. (I tell my pens that I like them all equally; I don't want any dissension in the ranks.) I don't have a 139, but someday. . . .