How Small A Nib Should I Go?

[stevesurf]

Hi folks, I believe I may be near to being assimilated into the Nakaya collective soon, if you'll have me

 

I really want an extremely fine point nib, but want to make sure others have used the nib before. I'm thinking of purchasing a Nakaya Cigar with XXF nib for small drawings on Clairefontaine and Rhodia paper. Will I have any problems? I'm used to using a 3x0 or 00 Rapidograph pen (see line sizes below).

 

http://www.scififantmodmadrealm.com/Images/KohinoorRapidographPenDiagram2b.jpg

 

Is the XXF a good choice or should I go XF?

 

Many thanks in advance

[Frank C]

Steve, I am afraid we created a monster at the Las Vegas Pen Posse #2. The Nakaya I brought was XF. There is also an XXF. These are really fine. Here is a link for you: Tipping Sizes of Modern Pens. I have a couple of the Sailor Saibi-Togi. They are considered to be about the same as the Nakaya XXF. Richard Binder sells a 4XF "Super Needlepoint" 0.004 in. stroke (which is about 0.10 mm).

 

You are free to try the Saibi-Togi at the next Las Vegas Pen Posse you attend.

 

BTW did you get the link to the Tortoiseshell Pelikan? You could probably get Mr. Mottishaw to make a needlepoint nib for this pen as well. Best of Luck!

[sarahfar]

I really love Nakaya and have bought 3 from JM including one to arrive tomorrow that has me pretty excited. All three have different nibs. I think you will find them running considerably smaller than German or Italian nibs. They are pretty true to the chart. The other thing, to me, if anything on Rhodia 90 g paper they would probably run even a little smaller I really like the way the Nakaya nibs react, and if JM adds some flex to them its even sweeter.

 

Best

 

Oh the one tomorrow is a BB Decapod, cut to a twiner of a Cursive Italic and Left Oblique with Flex added.

[Frank C]

I really love Nakaya and have bought 3 from JM including one to arrive tomorrow that has me pretty excited. All three have different nibs. I think you will find them running considerably smaller than German or Italian nibs. They are pretty true to the chart. The other thing, to me, if anything on Rhodia 90 g paper they would probably run even a little smaller I really like the way the Nakaya nibs react, and if JM adds some flex to them its even sweeter.

 

Best

 

Oh the one tomorrow is a BB Decapod, cut to a twiner of a Cursive Italic and Left Oblique with Flex added.

 

That sounds like a nice pen. Will you post some photos and a writing sample?

[ethernautrix]

Ricky has a Nakaya with an SEF (Super Extra Fine) (probably it's XXF) which he uses as a daily writer.

 

I liked it and his EF and considered getting the EF, but at the last minute, I ordered a ruthenium-plated F (cos it seemed to me that the ruthenium-plated nib was a bit stiffer and (therefore?) wrote with an ever so slightly finer line.

 

I have a ruthenium-plated M nib on a Long Piccolo, and I regularly switch between writing with the nib as usual and writing with the nib reverse for a finer line.

 

Ricky had uploaded a photo of his SEF nib and sample of its writing. Pretty sure. I'm looking for it now.

[ethernautrix]

Here it is!

 

It is a UEF (Ultra Extra Fine), not SEF.

 

This photo shows both his UEF and EF nibs:

 

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8192758816_bd093ac994.jpg

small writing by AltecGreen, on Flickr

Edited January 16, 2013 by ethernautrix

[stevesurf]

Steve, I am afraid we created a monster at the Las Vegas Pen Posse #2. The Nakaya I brought was XF. There is also an XXF. These are really fine. Here is a link for you: Tipping Sizes of Modern Pens. I have a couple of the Sailor Saibi-Togi. They are considered to be about the same as the Nakaya XXF. Richard Binder sells a 4XF "Super Needlepoint" 0.004 in. stroke (which is about 0.10 mm).

 

You are free to try the Saibi-Togi at the next Las Vegas Pen Posse you attend.

 

BTW did you get the link to the Tortoiseshell Pelikan? You could probably get Mr. Mottishaw to make a needlepoint nib for this pen as well. Best of Luck!

 

Yes, you did; is it possible that writing with a range of nib sizes is good therapy? I keep thinking of how the extra fine Nakaya lines looked on the white writing pad. It was just so cool. Did I take a picture of it? I'll have to check. The last time before that I tried a nib that small was some stock pen I tried at Soga in the Yokahama train station. And yes the tortie is a must have because it reminds me of one of my cats, plus it is a wonderful design.

 

 

I really love Nakaya and have bought 3 from JM including one to arrive tomorrow that has me pretty excited. All three have different nibs. I think you will find them running considerably smaller than German or Italian nibs. They are pretty true to the chart. The other thing, to me, if anything on Rhodia 90 g paper they would probably run even a little smaller I really like the way the Nakaya nibs react, and if JM adds some flex to them its even sweeter.

 

Best

 

Oh the one tomorrow is a BB Decapod, cut to a twiner of a Cursive Italic and Left Oblique with Flex added.

 

Great, Mike, thanks. When you get them, let me know how they write on the dot paper, and if you need more.

 

Here it is!

 

It is a UEF (Ultra Extra Fine), not SEF.

 

This photo shows both his UEF and EF nibs:

 

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8192758816_bd093ac994.jpg

small writing by AltecGreen, on Flickr

Wonderful! This is what I needed to see. Looks like I can do with either UEF or SEF. Micro printing is just so cool; so many applications. I might even try my hand at circular printing

[sarahfar]

I'll try to do that tomorrow in between meetings and other junk. I think from the BB CI I currently have you'll find it very nice. It also does very well with the M Flex. I have had zero issue with it on 80 G/90G/100 G.

 

On Rhodia black pads and blank zero issue. On the dots zero issue too. I will try to post all 3 on the dot and then the blank Rhodia tomorrow, maybe some of the other Rhodia papers too. Best to all

Mike

[Frank C]

Steve, it looks like you are on the right track. To be honest, a guy like you needs an XF and an XXF, one for kon-peki, one for MB Irish Green or something like that. I look forward to seeing the circular printing!

 

As (the) ethernautrix says, "Nakaya, Nakaya, Nakaya!"

[AltecGreen]

Thanks Lisa for putting up my picture. One of these days, I'll make one with more Nakaya nib sizes. UEF and SEF are the same. Different people use both acronymns to denote the same nib. It's basically the Nakaya XXF.

 

 

 

One word of advice, if you want the very finest lines, do not add any additional flex to the nib. The extra flex will broaden the line a bit. Even with my touch, it's hard to maintain the thinnest line with the modified Nakaya UEF. I require much higher levels of concentration to maintain the thinnest line with the modified Nakaya versus say a Brause "Rose" nib.

[stevesurf]

I'll try to do that tomorrow in between meetings and other junk. I think from the BB CI I currently have you'll find it very nice. It also does very well with the M Flex. I have had zero issue with it on 80 G/90G/100 G.

 

On Rhodia black pads and blank zero issue. On the dots zero issue too. I will try to post all 3 on the dot and then the blank Rhodia tomorrow, maybe some of the other Rhodia papers too. Best to all

Mike

 

Thanks so much; glad to hear!

 

 

Steve, it looks like you are on the right track. To be honest, a guy like you needs an XF and an XXF, one for kon-peki, one for MB Irish Green or something like that. I look forward to seeing the circular printing!

 

As (the) ethernautrix says, "Nakaya, Nakaya, Nakaya!"

Veni, vidi, vici

[we came, we saw, the Nakayas conquered]

 

Thanks Lisa for putting up my picture. One of these days, I'll make one with more Nakaya nib sizes. UEF and SEF are the same. Different people use both acronymns to denote the same nib. It's basically the Nakaya XXF.

 

 

 

One word of advice, if you want the very finest lines, do not add any additional flex to the nib. The extra flex will broaden the line a bit. Even with my touch, it's hard to maintain the thinnest line with the modified Nakaya UEF. I require much higher levels of concentration to maintain the thinnest line with the modified Nakaya versus say a Brause "Rose" nib.

 

Great advice! Standard SEF it is

[Frank C]

The next question is: Which Nakaya? I know that you found the black portable to be a little boring. They do make many flashier pens.

[stevesurf]

The next question is: Which Nakaya? I know that you found the black portable to be a little boring. They do make many flashier pens.

I was thinking (in order of preference)

 

this

http://www.nibs.com/www/WEBSITE%20PICS/Nakaya%20Pens/Piccolo/NewPiccolo/PiccoloCigarAraishuCapped.jpg

 

this:

http://www.nibs.com/www/WEBSITE%20PICS/Nakaya%20Pens/Piccolo/NewPiccolo/PiccoloShuCigarCapped.jpg

 

this

http://www.nibs.com/www/WEBSITE%20PICS/Nakaya%20Pens/Piccolo/PiccoloCigarMidori_Capped.JPG

 

or this

http://www.nibs.com/www/WEBSITE%20PICS/Nakaya%20Pens/Piccolo/PiccoloCigarAkaTamenuriCapped.JPG

Edited January 17, 2013 by stevesurf

[Frank C]

You can't go wrong with a piccolo cigar (pen, that is). I have the ara-ishu piccolo writer with a fine nib. I usually don't post my pens, so a piccolo is about as small as I like to go. The polished shu, midori, and kuro-tamenuri are all very nice pens. I would recommend doing something fun with it, like getting a two-tone or ruthenium nib. I usually keep my carry pens in a shirt or jacket pocket, but a cigar (pen) would suit your use of pen rolls.

 

Plan C would be to send one of your Mont Blancs to a nibmeister to have him grind it down to a XXF. Of course, 2.7 mL of ink would last a very long time!

 

Nibs.com has all of those in stock now except the Kuro-tamenuri. They are getting low on many of their Nakayas, so I would guess they are getting an order from Japan, soon. Let us know what you end up with.

 

(edited for grammar)

Edited January 17, 2013 by Frank C

[stevesurf]

You can't go wrong with a piccolo cigar (pen, that is). I have the ara-ishu piccolo writer with a fine nib. I usually don't post my pens, so a piccolo is about as small I like to go. The polished shu, midori, and kuro-tamenuri are all very nice pens. I would recommend doing something fun with it, like getting a two-tone or ruthenium nib. I usually keep my carry pens in a shirt or jacket pocket, but a cigar (pen) would suit your use of pen rolls.

 

Plan C would be to send one of your Mont Blancs to a nibmeister to have him grind it down to a XXF. Of course, 2.7 mL of ink would last a very long time!

 

Nibs.com has all of those in stock now except the Kuro-tamenuri. They are getting low on many of their Nakayas, so I would guess they are getting an order from Japan, soon. Let us know what you end up with.

Thanks as always Frank; how do you know what nibs they have in stock? I can see the pen stock availability.

[Frank C]

Just go to the nibs.con Nakaya Main Page and click on the Availability Chart in the upper right hand corner. They probably have most every nib in stock. Mr. Mottishaw just has to install it in the pen. Nakaya requires that the nib and feed be steamed prior to insertion for a good fit. Do not try this at home; they are professionals.

[amberleadavis]

Frank and I are having an impromptu Pen Posse. We vote for all four.

 

If however, you are only purchasing one, I vote for the first because it looks like a cigar and I see the beauty of form.

[reprieve]

The standard XF nib is about as fine as I would want to go. It is very tiny. I use mine for grading and marginalia. I have a hard time imagining writing with the XXF, but I'd like to try one. My XF is very smooth despite its fineness.

 

I really like the araishu Piccolo! Such a pretty orange! And the kuro-tamenuri is a elegant and beautiful. Have you considered the unpolished shu? My unpolished shu Naka-ai has a really wonderful tactility; it is warm and smooth and almost velvety.

[amberleadavis]

Steve, after further examination, this one is my favorite. (However, you can have multiples of the others for the cost of my favorite.)

 

http://www.nakaya.org/products/IMAGES/BODY/12005(1).jpg

 

[sarahfar]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/mikefarha/IMG_0351_zps3f1f5643.jpg

 

These are 3 of my Nakayas, L-R Naka Ai Heki SM, Aka BB cut to a Stub/CI and the new one Decapod Kuro with a Left Oblique in between CI with Flex what pen. Please don't judge by my writing or Photos...

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/mikefarha/IMG_0352_zps942ade57.jpg

 

This is Behance Dot and it performs well, pretty true to size. The SM on lighter weight 80 G Rhodia though is a noticeably narrower line my pics were bad there so I didn't post

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/mikefarha/IMG_0360-1_zpsa4bbfcf6.jpg

 

and this is the new Kuro with this incredible nib like JM'S daily user on Rhodia 80 G, keep in mind this is a BB fire house wideout in terms of wetness and the M is exactly what I said, significantly more narrow, consistent with a MB fine.

 

I share some of the same tastes with JM, I love classic lines Omas Paragons and the Decapods and these are good sized pens.

 

I think you'll enjoy Nakaya Steve....

 

Best,

MIKE