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Need Help Selecting My First Japanese Pen(S)


CAPT LOVE
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Hello all, :notworthy1:

 

This is my very first post on the FPN after sneaking around gathering valuable informations for a while.

 

I am quite new to FP, but is picking up the pace(thanks to a wealth of knowledge gathering from all of you wonderful people. My current small collection includes a Lamy 2000(F), Pelikan M215(Very Fine M), old Sheaffer Targa(Very broad M), a bunch of Heroes(for disection), and a few Lamy Safaris of various nib sizes. It is true that my collection is a bit all over the place, but only because I now reside in the land of smile(Bangkok Thailand), where number of specialized fountain pen shop is equal to ZERO. Department stores doesn't carry that many brands around here either, and when you asking more than a few questions, the clerks start looking at you in a funny way like "geeze it just a pen"... so now you all know my limitations.

 

Having gather a wealth of informations from FPN regarding pens of different nationalities, their unique characteristics, and some of their quirks, I have now decided to make a first batch of purchase(3 pens) through my dear friend who will be visiting Japan during the second week of April(can't wait!!). These are three pens I will be purchasing.

 

1) Pilot Custom Heritage 912 (SFM/FA/SM???)

2) Pilot Custom 91 (M) (Though I have heard that it is now out of production, in which case a Custom 74 will do)

3) Sailor Professional Gear (M)

And yes, I am a sucker for silver trim black pens.

 

Having seen aged old fued on FPN, as to who make a better FP between Pilot and Sailor, I have decided to purchase both to settle my own score. But honestly, it is very difficult decision-making process for myself by just researching without having an opportunity of test driving them, as both brands are highly regarded and that prefering one over another maybe down to personal preference.

 

I have looked at Sailor Professional Gear Naginata Toki (NMF) before, but concluded that it is not suitable for my smallish-medium hand writes. Therefore the only nib I will try from the Sailor camp this time will be the M nib only.

 

As for the Pilots, I have heard wonderful stories about its sweet pens and nib selections. I have always ben intrigued by the FA nib, but am a bit cautious of its tendency to skip due to insufficient feed(I write mostly in English, with a few Thai writing once in a while). Which brings me to the wonderful praise from various credible FPN members(Sandy1, Hari317 to name a few) over the "Pilot Soft Nibs". Bringing me to my main question of the night(finally!!) Are the number 10 soft nibs (SFM, SM) write about as wide as their number 5 counterparts? I only want to confirm, since most of the reviews I read are based on the number 5 soft nibs, that the SM write a bit on the wide broad side(which won't be suitable for my hand write), I just want to check from whoever is running those nibs in number 10 that the same law from number 5 does also applied. And if so, would SFM be more ideal?( I prefer standard Western Fine, or standard Japanese M?)

 

Any comment and/or suggestion will be greatly appreciate, and please forgive my long post and terrible English as a second language. :embarrassed_smile:

 

Thanks in advance,

 

CAPT LOVE

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Not offering any advice - just a very warm welcome to FPN :W2FPN: As a second language, I think your English is wonderful. :thumbup:

Whatever is true,whatever is noble,whatever is right,whatever is pure,whatever is lovely,whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things.

Philippians 4.8

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No idea about the soft nibs, but my Pilot's #10 hard M nib writes about as broad as my Pelikan M. I've heard that Pilot's nib sizes run closer to their western counterparts.

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No idea about the soft nibs, but my Pilot's #10 hard M nib writes about as broad as my Pelikan M. I've heard that Pilot's nib sizes run closer to their western counterparts.

 

:hmm1: Interesting, I have always been under the impression that Pilot Custom M (VP line excluded) is just slightly broader than Sailor M, which is most equivelent to a western F. Does this mean that the Soft will even be broader due to it's wet nature?

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Are the number 10 soft nibs (SFM, SM) write about as wide as their number 5 counterparts? I only want to confirm, since most of the reviews I read are based on the number 5 soft nibs, that the SM write a bit on the wide broad side(which won't be suitable for my hand write), I just want to check from whoever is running those nibs in number 10 that the same law from number 5 does also applied. And if so, would SFM be more ideal?( I prefer standard Western Fine, or standard Japanese M?)

 

 

Hi Capt Love,

 

I have used only a few nibs of same width between the #5 and #10. I would say that the "non soft" nibs write the same. with soft nibs like SM, the size of the nib plays its part and with pressure the #10 nib writes wider. In my view the SM nib is equal easily to a western fat medium nib with my writing pressure, it is a Western medium with the absolute light pressure.

 

I found that SF and SFM have very little line width diffrence, the SM was suddenly larger. but it must just be the ordinary nib width tolerance at play.

 

With the FA nib, you should be ok as long as you dont really try to flex the nibon huge downstrokes.

 

Warm Regards,

Hari

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

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Hi,

 

One of the Pilot Custom 74 pens that I have is fitted with the № 5 SFM nib. That nib was quite a revelation, to me at least.

 

I write with a light brisk hand, with more emphasis on speed than style; I do not pretend to be a wisp of a calligrapher. My overall preference continues to be firm nibs of a Western M designation, such as the current Parker Duofold, and Sheaffer's conical Triumph nibs & inlaid nibs. I also acquired some pens with softer nibs, such as the earlier Pelikans and the Waterman W5 & № 2/A, but I found them a bit 'squishy' - rather like an under-inflated vehicle tire - just a bit too slow. But I did like their line quality, with its subtle line-width variation, so they started to sneak into my hand more often, but not with regularity.

 

I thought I had enough firm nibs (Ha!), so tried the older Pilot 'Script' nibs, which lead me to try a softer Asian nib. And there I found the Pilot C74 with the SFM nib. Now it is one of my go-to pen+nib combos when I want to write 10+ A4 pages with a darker ink of high-ish saturation / low shading potential.

 

The pen is of 'normal' girth and its mass is that of an all-plastic c/c pen, with ergonomics I find comfortable. The feed gives an exceptionally even flow, even when used to quickly sketch long lines.

 

If one writes with the intention of generating line-width variation, then I suggest going towards nibs of a more narrow designation. Also, the softer nibs slow my pace, slightly reducing my character spacing, so the narrower line keeps my writing from looking too crowded.

 

I've used that pen in a few of my Ink Reviews, so performance and line-width can be seen relative to other pens used [poorly].

 

From the recent review of Diamine Ancient Copper:

 

Depiction of nibs' line-width and pens' relative wetness.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/72dc89aa.jpg

Pens: L ➠ R:

  • Esterbrook J + 9551 steel XF nib.
  • Pelikan P99 Technix + steel F nib.
  • Pilot Custom 74 + SFM nib.
  • Parker 45 + g-p steel M nib.
  • Sheaffer Prelude + steel B nib.
  • Waterman's Crusader (?) + № 5 14K Ideal nib.
  • Waterman's 52 1/2 V + № 2 nib.

8mm row spacing.

The originals are 57.2 x 45.1mm

 

From the rigid Estie XF Posting nib - no line-width variation:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/1351fd13.jpg

 

 

From the C74+SFM - slight line-width variation:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/f59fa88d.jpg

 

From a flexi Waterman 52 1/2 V - quite high line-width variation:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/e5d9da32.jpg

 

= = =

 

Other samples from the C74+SFM:

 

Original is 57.2 x 45.1mm

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/Comparison%20-%20Sheaffer%20Skrip%20Blue%20TO%20MBRB/Ink%20Review%20-%20Herbin%20Lie%20de%20The/657e217a.jpg

 

Original is 60 x 30mm:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN_2012/Ink%20Review%20-%20RK%20Verdigris/7adcde2a.jpg

 

Bye,

S1

Edited by Sandy1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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I love this post, Sandy1. Man look at that Waterman's 52 1/2 V + № 2 nib....

"One always looking for flaws leaves too little time for construction" ...

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Not offering any advice - just a very warm welcome to FPN :W2FPN: As a second language, I think your English is wonderful. :thumbup:

 

:blush: Appreciate your warm welcome Lorna.

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Hi Hari, Sandy, and everyone.

 

Appreciate both of your insightful and kind advices. :)

 

Hari's answer regarding the FA nib caught my attention, because deep down.. I have always wanted to acquire the FA nib myself, but just don't know what to expect of it's tendency to skip or railroad or not being suitable for everyday use. As I am not in a position to acquire these expensive pens as an experiment toy to draw a few lines per week.. All of my pens need to be able to perform as my daily writer, should I have an urge for it to do so. (from taking quick notes in the meeting, to recording multiple shipment confirmations, and preparing long and elaborate speeches) And by the way, I write moderate to quick speed with relatively low hand pressure.

 

So here comes more questions..

 

1) If I should only be in a position to acquire only one Pilot FP, would the SFM nib be a good representation of the whole Pilot line up? Another word, would a plain vanila M nib be better suit for such task as my very first Pilot, to get a glimpse of the whole deal? (and of course, another task of serving as my daily writer)

 

2) How large is the line draw by the FA nib at light hand pressue, in comparison to.. say other Pilot nibs or other western nib standard?(I keep asking you this because I still really really really want the FA nib) Would the 912 FA be able to serve as my daily writer as efficiently as the SFM or regular M nib? By the way, the size of the line draw by Sandy's 74 SFM is PERFECT for my hand write and preference.(very similar to my Lamy 2000 F.. just perfect)

 

Appreciate all of your kind help

CAPT LOVE

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2) How large is the line draw by the FA nib at light hand pressue, in comparison to.. say other Pilot nibs or other western nib standard?

 

Just dragged across the page, with only the pen's weight on the nib, the 743FA's line is similar to what my Pilot F nib makes when dragged similarly.

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

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Welcome to the insanity! I've found that Pilot's nibs do run closer to their western equivalents, as someone else already noted. If going the soft route, I would go for the soft fine. As for the falcon, I have one in the #15 size. The tip is about the same size as a fine medium. I love the pen, but it's somewhat a novelty item. I don't see much more flex than a soft fine, though the #10 size falcons tend to be slightly more flexible. For general writing, I would go with a soft fine or a firm fine medium on the Custom Heritage 912. If you're considering Sailor, I have a professional gear in a fine, and I love it. So smooth, even thought is a narrower tip. If given a choice between a Sailor PG in a fine medium and the Pilot 912 in a soft fine, I'd go with the Pilot just because I love the sf #10 nibs. They are a bit sensitive, however.

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Hi all,

 

Appreciate all of your kind advices. :)

 

After much careful considerations and data comparisons, I have firmly made up my mind on playing safe, and selecting the SFM nib 912. Mostly due to Sandy's awesome scanned samples and many of your kindly supplied datas, through out various related topics. I can't thank all of you guys and the FPN enough for such a great learning and information sharing opportunities.

 

Another question remin; As I have also plan to acquire a Sailor Professional Gear with an M nib, along with another Pilot Custom 74 as a real workhorse, for my complete first three Japanese pens acquisition. Would you recommend me buying the 74 with another soft nib as well? I understand the mentality that we should continue learning and experiencing new things, but I fear that if I were to purchase the 74 with a regular plain hard M/FM nib just for differentiation purpose, I would feel like a complete idiot for not getting both 912 and 74 in Soft nib(If I ended up liking Soft nib more than regular hard nib). This is totaly pure assumption, as the lamy 2000, the softest nib that I currently use is probably a nail compare to Pilot soft(but I still prefer it over other harder nib I own, and wish it could be even softer). What is it like to write with a Pilot's soft nib? Is it offer similar sensation to writing with Pilor's own hard nib, only springier? Will it be as suitable as a regular Pilot hard nib as a daily workhorse? or is there anything else I need to consider before making a decision to buy two of my very first pilots in soft nibs? Or would you suggest otherwise?

 

Comments and/or suggestions are greatly appreciate. :huh:

 

CAPT LOVE

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you might want to check Platinum's pens also. I have one (president #3776) which I wholeheartedly recommend.

On a quest to find the best black ink there is {on hold until i come up with good criteria}. Test subjects:

Caran d'Ache Carbon; J. Herbin Perle Noire; De Atramentis Black Edition - Black; Lamy Black; Montegrappa Black; Parker Quink Permanent Black; Pelikan Brilliant Black 4001; Sailor Kiwa-Guro Pigmented Nano Black.Not final list, PM me with further worthy test subjects

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Hi all,

 

Appreciate all of your kind advices. :)

 

After much careful considerations and data comparisons, I have firmly made up my mind on playing safe, and selecting the SFM nib 912. Mostly due to Sandy's awesome scanned samples and many of your kindly supplied datas, through out various related topics. I can't thank all of you guys and the FPN enough for such a great learning and information sharing opportunities.

 

Another question remin; As I have also plan to acquire a Sailor Professional Gear with an M nib, along with another Pilot Custom 74 as a real workhorse, for my complete first three Japanese pens acquisition. Would you recommend me buying the 74 with another soft nib as well? I understand the mentality that we should continue learning and experiencing new things, but I fear that if I were to purchase the 74 with a regular plain hard M/FM nib just for differentiation purpose, I would feel like a complete idiot for not getting both 912 and 74 in Soft nib(If I ended up liking Soft nib more than regular hard nib). This is totaly pure assumption, as the lamy 2000, the softest nib that I currently use is probably a nail compare to Pilot soft(but I still prefer it over other harder nib I own, and wish it could be even softer). What is it like to write with a Pilot's soft nib? Is it offer similar sensation to writing with Pilor's own hard nib, only springier? Will it be as suitable as a regular Pilot hard nib as a daily workhorse? or is there anything else I need to consider before making a decision to buy two of my very first pilots in soft nibs? Or would you suggest otherwise?

 

Comments and/or suggestions are greatly appreciate. :huh:

 

CAPT LOVE

Hi,

 

I'm glad you found our contributions to be of use.

 

I suggest that you wait about six months before your next purchase. In the interim, use the pens you have for whatever purposes you have, then determine your actual needs & preferences. Also give consideration to ink, and papers that you choose and those which are encountered.

 

Plans are good to have, but need constant revision to be relevant. :happyberet:

 

Bye,

S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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you might want to check Platinum's pens also. I have one (president #3776) which I wholeheartedly recommend.

 

Hi Keyser,

 

I am also thinking about the Platinum as well, the President maybe my ticket to enter the platinum family. As my girlfriend is also preparing a trip to Japan during June, I will have plenty of time deciding, making a more prudent decision based on trying-out my Pilots, which I wil be acquiring in about a couple weeks, and collecting data from FPN excellent source. :thumbup:

 

Decision decision decision.. :hmm1:

 

CAPT LOVE

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Hi all,

 

Appreciate all of your kind advices. :)

 

After much careful considerations and data comparisons, I have firmly made up my mind on playing safe, and selecting the SFM nib 912. Mostly due to Sandy's awesome scanned samples and many of your kindly supplied datas, through out various related topics. I can't thank all of you guys and the FPN enough for such a great learning and information sharing opportunities.

 

Another question remin; As I have also plan to acquire a Sailor Professional Gear with an M nib, along with another Pilot Custom 74 as a real workhorse, for my complete first three Japanese pens acquisition. Would you recommend me buying the 74 with another soft nib as well? I understand the mentality that we should continue learning and experiencing new things, but I fear that if I were to purchase the 74 with a regular plain hard M/FM nib just for differentiation purpose, I would feel like a complete idiot for not getting both 912 and 74 in Soft nib(If I ended up liking Soft nib more than regular hard nib). This is totaly pure assumption, as the lamy 2000, the softest nib that I currently use is probably a nail compare to Pilot soft(but I still prefer it over other harder nib I own, and wish it could be even softer). What is it like to write with a Pilot's soft nib? Is it offer similar sensation to writing with Pilor's own hard nib, only springier? Will it be as suitable as a regular Pilot hard nib as a daily workhorse? or is there anything else I need to consider before making a decision to buy two of my very first pilots in soft nibs? Or would you suggest otherwise?

 

Comments and/or suggestions are greatly appreciate. :huh:

 

CAPT LOVE

Hi,

 

I'm glad you found our contributions to be of use.

 

I suggest that you wait about six months before your next purchase. In the interim, use the pens you have for whatever purposes you have, then determine your actual needs & preferences. Also give consideration to ink, and papers that you choose and those which are encountered.

 

Plans are good to have, but need constant revision to be relevant. :happyberet:

 

Bye,

S1

 

 

Hello Sandy,

 

:blush: "Useful" would be hopelessly understated for the great help and warm hospitality you guys have given to a newbie(newly bitten by an FP bug) like me.

 

It is also your superb ink review, which introduced me to my current ink of choice, the Waterman Floida Blue, which may sound borring to many of you Noodler's and Private Reserve users, but is the best possible ink that remains available here in Thailand, the land of Smiling Ballpoints. I experiment with as many ink I can lay my hand on around here.. so far the list is unimpressively boring to say the very least.(Pelikan 4001, Parker Quink, Sheaffer Skrip, Lamy etc.. and the Waterman). As for papers, Rhodia and Clairfontaine aren't exist around here either.. So practically EVERYTHING from the pens, to ink, to papers, have to be self imported.. quite a tiringly repetitive process to be honest. Sometimes I even thought to myself, maybe I have truly chosen a wrong hobby(or the wrong country to reside :gaah: ).

 

CAPT LOVE :sick:

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✄ snip ✄

Hello Sandy,

 

:blush: "Useful" would be hopelessly understated for the great help and warm hospitality you guys have given to a newbie(newly bitten by an FP bug) like me.

 

It is also your superb ink review, which introduced me to my current ink of choice, the Waterman Floida Blue, which may sound borring to many of you Noodler's and Private Reserve users, but is the best possible ink that remains available here in Thailand, the land of Smiling Ballpoints. I experiment with as many ink I can lay my hand on around here.. so far the list is unimpressively boring to say the very least.(Pelikan 4001, Parker Quink, Sheaffer Skrip, Lamy etc.. and the Waterman). As for papers, Rhodia and Clairfontaine aren't exist around here either.. So practically EVERYTHING from the pens, to ink, to papers, have to be self imported.. quite a tiringly repetitive process to be honest. Sometimes I even thought to myself, maybe I have truly chosen a wrong hobby(or the wrong country to reside :gaah: ).

 

CAPT LOVE :sick:

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

It seems that my wee Ink Reviews are sometimes useful for pen/nib selection!

 

As for ink, I think that with the brands that you have available, you should be able to meet all your practical requirements. Also, as those inks are 'safe' dye-based inks, with solid performance profiles, that should allow for some personal mixes, dilution, etc. to meet colour preferences. (FPN has a trove of mixes here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124467-ink-recipes-mixed-inks-homemade-inks/ )

 

In addition, consider small job [off-set] print shops as a source of paper: they may give/sell off-cuts so you can sample some papers, then approach them to buy a quantity of whatever size & type you've chosen.

 

Bye,

S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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✄ snip ✄

Hello Sandy,

 

:blush: "Useful" would be hopelessly understated for the great help and warm hospitality you guys have given to a newbie(newly bitten by an FP bug) like me.

 

It is also your superb ink review, which introduced me to my current ink of choice, the Waterman Floida Blue, which may sound borring to many of you Noodler's and Private Reserve users, but is the best possible ink that remains available here in Thailand, the land of Smiling Ballpoints. I experiment with as many ink I can lay my hand on around here.. so far the list is unimpressively boring to say the very least.(Pelikan 4001, Parker Quink, Sheaffer Skrip, Lamy etc.. and the Waterman). As for papers, Rhodia and Clairfontaine aren't exist around here either.. So practically EVERYTHING from the pens, to ink, to papers, have to be self imported.. quite a tiringly repetitive process to be honest. Sometimes I even thought to myself, maybe I have truly chosen a wrong hobby(or the wrong country to reside :gaah: ).

 

CAPT LOVE :sick:

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

It seems that my wee Ink Reviews are sometimes useful for pen/nib selection!

 

As for ink, I think that with the brands that you have available, you should be able to meet all your practical requirements. Also, as those inks are 'safe' dye-based inks, with solid performance profiles, that should allow for some personal mixes, dilution, etc. to meet colour preferences. (FPN has a trove of mixes here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124467-ink-recipes-mixed-inks-homemade-inks/ )

 

In addition, consider small job [off-set] print shops as a source of paper: they may give/sell off-cuts so you can sample some papers, then approach them to buy a quantity of whatever size & type you've chosen.

 

Bye,

S1

 

You are always my source of knowledge Sandy :thumbup:

 

By the way, I have read in many of your ink reviews, when you dilute.. say a PR American Blue with 50% water. How do you start about doing it? Just pour half ink and half cold tab water into a cup?

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You are always my source of knowledge Sandy :thumbup:

 

By the way, I have read in many of your ink reviews, when you dilute.. say a PR American Blue with 50% water. How do you start about doing it? Just pour half ink and half cold tab water into a cup?

 

Not Sandy but for dilution, I prefer to use distilled water (either the type you get at a chemist's or the bottled version which is available at grocery/convenience stores.)

 

I'm also from the SE Asian region and depending on water treatment facilities in your city, the stuff from the tap can either be chlorinated or hard.

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Welcome to the "nut house"! We all have to be nuts(crazy) to go on about fountain pens like this.

 

Your English composition is far better as a second language, than those of us using English as a first and in most cases the only language.

Regards

 

Jeff

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