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Parker 51 Fraud.....


Rockyrod
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yes, that is another fake indeed from this seller. Really unbelievable what people are prepared to pay for these pens (check also his feedback, his fake pens sell for astonishing prices).

I previously posted on a fake nassau green P51 from this seller:

P51 Nassua green

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is this a fake pen? or is it a genuine item but misdescribed as first year?

 

The blind cap is clearly marked like a first year blind cap... with the number 1.... as stated the color did not exist in 1941

This seller is well known to some members of the hobby as a major fraud...

He apparently is producing these pens and laser engraving the markings....

This information has been bought up before on other pens he has sold....

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Pretty good forgery though...they reach crazy prices for fakes. The seller could still sell them at a good price, even if he stated that they are fantasy reproductions. Probably nib is original and cap too.

" I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein

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It's too bad you cannot permanently exclude listings from a seller on eBay.

"One always looking for flaws leaves too little time for construction" ...

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is this a fake pen? or is it a genuine item but misdescribed as first year?

This is real fake! As Rockyrod mentioned, mustard was not a first year colour and this seller is well known for his fake pens.

 

I actually do not know the right word for these pens: is it fake, is it remake, is it fraud? It all depends on how you present the item.

The pens of this seller are recently made pens, they possibly contain some vintage parts. The pens have all fake imprints that copy the 1930-40 imprints of the original Parker pens (P51 & Duofolds, see his sold items). The seller of these pens fails to state clearly that his pens are recent remakes of a vintage pen. So is this fake? I think it is.

 

This seller is active on Ebay since a long time and I am really surprised that people pay so much money for these pens. Given the positive feedback of this seller, his buyers are either not aware of the fake nature of the pens or they simply don't care whether it is genuine vintage or not.

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It angers me that he misrepresents them.

 

OTOH, to me they are freekin' beautifully done.

 

It's been touched at before. It'd be nice to acquaint him with the works of Chris Thompson and Ralph Prather, And the prices they get for their art and the concept that true craftsmanship brings nearly the same price as a misrepresented fake. It'd be nice for Truthiness to prevail with his work and there's no real reason for it not to.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

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Thanks for the inputs.

 

I am curious... he could very easily research the correct first year colors etc and make them, why does he make these obvious fundamental errors, are these intentional?

 

who might be the people who pay top dollar for his items on ebay?, surely they do a little bit research or know a thing or two before putting down so much money, or all these bids shill bids?

Edited by hari317

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

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I think the "crime" here is misrepresentation. I think the seller should state what his pens really are, high end reproductions. They appear to be really well made. Surviving pen companies make all the time reproduction of their vintage models. As long as it is clearly stated what one is selling, there should be no problem. If the buyer is willing to pay over $700 for a fantasy pen, it is his/her choice. If the buyer is thinking to buy a vintage pen, there is a problem.

As we all know, Kullock is making nice fantasy reproduction barrels for P51s, and some of us enjoy playing with them and creating our own DJ P51, maybe in bright yellow, with broad nib etc. or maybe a demonstrator.

I think the seller in question does not want to state that they are fantasy reproductions because he thinks he can make more money this way, and this is misrepresentation. But after all it is always best to be an informed buyer, in any transaction that one undetakes in life...

" I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein

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Thanks for the inputs.

 

I am curious... he could very easily research the correct first year colors etc and make them, why does he make these obvious fundamental errors, are these intentional?

 

who might be the people who pay top dollar for his items on ebay?, surely they do a little bit research or know a thing or two before putting down so much money, or all these bids shill bids?

The Nassau 51 had technical flaws. It allowed us (me) to tell it was fake but we (I) refused to publicly state the mistakes. I believe he figured it out to some extent since the pen reappeared with one of the problems corrected. I do suspect he/she reads here.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next great pen show is on schedule for August 27-28-29, 2021. If we all do what we need to do...you can Book your travel and tables and make SF 2021 the Return. 
 

 My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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I can't speak for anyone else but before I spent $900 on a pen I would do a bit of research first. It would not be difficult to find that Mustard wasn't a color choice in 1941 so whoever bought the item won't have an easy time of getting their money back. Of course that assumes someone actually bought it and it wasn't some fake bid.

Rod Rumsey

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The Nassau 51 had technical flaws. It allowed us (me) to tell it was fake but we (I) refused to publicly state the mistakes. I believe he figured it out to some extent since the pen reappeared with one of the problems corrected. I do suspect he/she reads here.

 

If he does read here, I would very much hope that he would consider switching to making custom fantasy pens. That's what I'd do, quite aside from the ethical/legal issues of selling deliberate fakes.

 

The market for higher-end vintage pens is pretty small (smaller still, if your strategy is to sell expensive pens to collectors who can't tell real from fake). The market for custom pens is significantly larger, and the buyers willing to spend substantially more. Prather-made customized 51s go for serious money; ditto for fantasy pens by Torelli and his ilk. And the market for custom pens is one that is likely to grow steadily, just as the market for fakes is destined to shrink, as word gets around.

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  • 3 months later...
The Nassau 51 had technical flaws. It allowed us (me) to tell it was fake but we (I) refused to publicly state the mistakes. I believe he figured it out to some extent since the pen reappeared with one of the problems corrected. I do suspect he/she reads here.

 

If he does read here, I would very much hope that he would consider switching to making custom fantasy pens. That's what I'd do, quite aside from the ethical/legal issues of selling deliberate fakes.

 

The market for higher-end vintage pens is pretty small (smaller still, if your strategy is to sell expensive pens to collectors who can't tell real from fake). The market for custom pens is significantly larger, and the buyers willing to spend substantially more. Prather-made customized 51s go for serious money; ditto for fantasy pens by Torelli and his ilk. And the market for custom pens is one that is likely to grow steadily, just as the market for fakes is destined to shrink, as word gets around.

Advise all buyers that they have bought fakes from this seller.

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The Nassau 51 had technical flaws. It allowed us (me) to tell it was fake but we (I) refused to publicly state the mistakes. I believe he figured it out to some extent since the pen reappeared with one of the problems corrected. I do suspect he/she reads here.

 

 

Why refuse to publicly state the mistakes? :blink:

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The Nassau 51 had technical flaws. It allowed us (me) to tell it was fake but we (I) refused to publicly state the mistakes. I believe he figured it out to some extent since the pen reappeared with one of the problems corrected. I do suspect he/she reads here.

 

 

Why refuse to publicly state the mistakes? :blink:

So he does not correct the flaw on the next round.

 

Not to mention how odd it is for one person to have so many examples of very unusual or one-of-a-kind pens in near perfect condition all seemingly sourced from Asia.....

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next great pen show is on schedule for August 27-28-29, 2021. If we all do what we need to do...you can Book your travel and tables and make SF 2021 the Return. 
 

 My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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This guy changed his eBay name, so I guess he must think people were catching on to his game - even though he still has good feedback ratings. He still uses essentially the same sales pitch in fractured English, which is confusing enough that he could probably claim that he said he manufactured the pen himself. I am not sure if that is his intent, or if he just can't speak English very well.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana." - Groucho Marx

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