Naginata Togi Nm Nib

[daoud62]

Hi all,

Have any of you found that the Nakinata Togi nib in Medium is quite broad for a Japanese nib? I have it on my newly arrived Sailor Susutake :ltcapd: , and no matter what angle I hold the pen at, the line is wider than I would have thought. I have a M-F nib from Sailor on my Realo Piston Fill (a pen I love), and it writes finer than any EF nib I have.

Whatever the width, it writes beautifully so far; I filled it with some MB Sepia I managed to find!!

Grateful to hear your experiences.

David

[Nikolaos]

Hi David,

 

You are right about the Naginata Togi NM. It is wider that expected, but on my pens (Susutake & Realo 95th Anniversary) the width changes when I change the angle. The higher the angle the finer the line.

 

Nikolaos

[daoud62]

Hi David,

 

You are right about the Naginata Togi NM. It is wider that expected, but on my pens (Susutake & Realo 95th Anniversary) the width changes when I change the angle. The higher the angle the finer the line.

 

Nikolaos

 

 

Hi Nikolaos,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I've seen some of the other posts on FPN about this, and it appears this is common. Have you ever tried the M-F Naginata nib? I was wondering whether to swap this one out with John Mottishaw (from whom I bought it), but we have terrible problems in Oman sending stuff back, because they always try to impose duty on the way back no matter how many papers you fill out.

 

I tried writing with the nib almost 90 degrees to the paper, and of course, it is correct that this makes the line narrower. But, writing at that angle is not comfortable.

 

I only use my pens for writing; I am not a calligrapher or artist, but I must say that the shading with MB Sepia using this pen is AMAZING. Also the cross bars on the Ts come out very thick and dark. It's quite attractive. I only wish it were a little thinner.

 

What color ink do you use with your Susutake?

 

Cheers,

David

[Nikolaos]

Hi David,

 

Even though the line is thicker than both you and I thought, just like you, I really like the way the pen writes so I am not thinking of exchanging it. I haven't tried the M-F Naginata nib.

 

Writing at a 90 degree angle is almost impossible. To be fair I haven't used my Susutake a whole lot. Too many pens I guess

I have used the Realo much more and I like the smoothness and feel of the nib. However for daily use I tend to grab smaller pens like Hakase, Ohashi-do, vintage Pilot/Namiki, other vintage Japanese pens and so on. I really like Pilot inks, Aurora black and blue inks are great. Perhaps it's time to get a bottle of MB Sepia!!

 

Nikolaos

Edited March 13, 2012 by Nikolaos

[nicholasyeo]

I'm curious, what is the difference in the widths from the Naginata Togi M to the NMF?

I was intending to get one of those but I really do fear that because I am not used to

adjusting my writing angles to the pen rather than the pen to me, I cannot enjoy the

nib as much. However, it appears that the Naginata Togi can definitely make fine lines?

[daoud62]

I'm curious, what is the difference in the widths from the Naginata Togi M to the NMF?

I was intending to get one of those but I really do fear that because I am not used to

adjusting my writing angles to the pen rather than the pen to me, I cannot enjoy the

nib as much. However, it appears that the Naginata Togi can definitely make fine lines?

 

 

Hi there,

 

According to John Mottishaw, the broadest vertical stroke on a NFM is 0.4 mm and the broadest horizontal stroke is 0.6 mm. On a NM, such as I have, it goes from 0.55 mm to 0.65 mm. For comparison, a Pelikan M nib is 0.7 mm.

 

PS: I love Singapore. Are there good pen shops there???

 

Cheers,

David

[daoud62]

Hi David,

 

Even though the line is thicker than both you and I thought, just like you, I really like the way the pen writes so I am not thinking of exchanging it. I haven't tried the M-F Naginata nib.

 

Writing at a 90 degree angle is almost impossible. To be fair I haven't used my Susutake a whole lot. Too many pens I guess

I have used the Realo much more and I like the smoothness and feel of the nib. However for daily use I tend to grab smaller pens like Hakase, Ohashi-do, vintage Pilot/Namiki, other vintage Japanese pens and so on. I really like Pilot inks, Aurora black and blue inks are great. Perhaps it's time to get a bottle of MB Sepia!!

 

Nikolaos

 

I love the way the Susutake feels, so I am using it a lot. I wish we had pen shops here. There's only one I know of in Dubai, as well as the MB boutiques.

 

My oldest pen is a Namiki Maki-e (the Owl) which I bought myself as a birthday present about 10 years ago. The Namiki M nib on it is amazing. Like butter, as they say. I have a Hakase being made right now; the wait is killing me, but is good for my wallet. I also like the Nakaya nibs, though their M nibs are like F nibs in any other brand.

 

MB Sepia is hard to get because it's discontinued, but you may be lucky, depending on where you live. I got mine in Abu Dhabi, but I think I got the last bottle. That being said, MB Toffee Brown is quite nice as well. I bought some Pilot Tsukushi when I was in NY the last time, but I haven't opened it yet. I also have Hakase Real Sepia, and like it, but it is SO DRY. I've tried it in nearly 10 different pens, and it always is a very hard start.

Edited March 13, 2012 by daoud62

[TDL]

I have a Sailor Maya on order with a Naginata MF nib. It will be my first Sailor and I am very keen to try the Naginata nib as I have become used, very quickly, to the qualities of the Cursive Italic nibs John Mottishaw worked for me on my three Nakayas. Fingers crossed. The pen will hopefully be delivered next week when I get back over to London again.

[Dr.Grace]

The NT is wonderful, but very different from an italic nib.

[Pen2009]

I just received 6 new pens and 2 of them are Sailor Profit 21 Naginata Togi pens. The gold trim one is MF Naginata Togi and the rhodium trim is M Naginata Togi.

 

Based on my initial dip test, both nibs are super smooth.

 

MF: This is very suitable for a daily writer. The line width for MF is close to Pelikan M by my casual observation.

 

M: This is a very broad nib. I think the line width is as fat as the MB 149 B.

 

Now I have so many new pens in my hands, I am at a loss which pen I should start using.

[nicholasyeo]

I'm curious, what is the difference in the widths from the Naginata Togi M to the NMF?

I was intending to get one of those but I really do fear that because I am not used to

adjusting my writing angles to the pen rather than the pen to me, I cannot enjoy the

nib as much. However, it appears that the Naginata Togi can definitely make fine lines?

 

 

Hi there,

 

According to John Mottishaw, the broadest vertical stroke on a NFM is 0.4 mm and the broadest horizontal stroke is 0.6 mm. On a NM, such as I have, it goes from 0.55 mm to 0.65 mm. For comparison, a Pelikan M nib is 0.7 mm.

 

PS: I love Singapore. Are there good pen shops there???

 

Cheers,

David

 

Hello David,

 

Thanks for your very specific and definitive reply. I would be most glad to share with you some great

pen shops here in Singapore - there are quite a number, but some cater to the more upmarket and

"rich" crowd, so to speak... I personally like to visit one opposite the old Raffles Hotel. It's called

"Fook Hing". They might not appear as impressive but I have always gotten great pens and attentive

service from the guys over there. (No affiliation) They're more down to earth, a place that a student

like myself will not fear walking into... HAHA!

[mhosea]

Here's a photo that shows what the Naginata Togi Medium Fine does on Clairefontaine paper with Diamine Red Dragon. There's also a sample from a 14K Sailor H-M (medium) nib in Noodler's Blue.

 

Naginata Togi Medium Fine

[TDL]

I now have my Sailor Maya with the Naginata MF nib, but I need to work out how to control it. So far I can get reasonably narrow when I am taking notes all the way up to really thick. More practice required, methinks.

[daoud62]

Hi all,

 

I wanted to give an update on my Sailor Susutake (smoked bamboo) pen with the Naginata Togi NM ib,

 

The Sailor Susutake was my grail pen. When I heard that the grinder of the Naginata Togi nibs was going to retire this year, I thought I'd better save up and buy one. Reasoning that Japanese nibs are always one size smaller than European sizes, I ordered the Susutake with the NM nib. I wish I had read the comments on FPN before doing so.

 

After trying to love this pen for nearly a month now, my reaction is as follows:

 

1) The NM nib is far too broad, and I wish I had ordered an NMF. The measurements of the width of the line produced by the NM nib given on Classic Fountain Pens webste are not entirely accurate because, with certain inks, this Susutake with the NM writes broader than a Pelikan Toledo with an M nib (where the space between the tines is 0.70 mm in width).

 

2) I have used 4 different bottled inks so far in the cartridge converter: Montblanc Toffee Brown, Montblanc Sepia, Waterman Havana, and Diamine Eclipse. With all of these inks, the pen skips routinely, especially with the letters e, o and g and with any beginning upward stroke.

 

3) I have now inserted the Sailor cartridge (Black) that came with the pen, and I have experienced the same skipping, particularly on Rhodia paper.

 

4) There is no noticeable difference in width between vertical and horizontal strokes (except with Montblanc Sepia).

 

5) The writing is not as smooth as I expected; in fact, it's a bit rough, I feel, and you are always afraid that if you don't hold the pen exactly right, it will skip. I am used to Japanese nibs that can be used in any position and will feel like you're writing on air.

 

6) Most importantly, I discovered, after cleaning the pen, that there was a pink piece of gunk (looking like a tiny splinter of wood) stuck onto the back of the nib like glue. I flushed and flushed and finally it came loose.

 

I have to admit that for $1,300, I expected much more. I have contacted the dealer and they will exchange the nib for an NMF or for any other specialty nib (I have considered the Concorde Point, but I am reluctant to do so without trying it beforehand) or allow me to apply the purchase price towards a different pen. I am in a dilemma because I don't know what to do. On the one hand, I love the idea of this pen. On the other hand, this is not a museum piece, and writing with this Naginata Togi nib is not giving me any pleasure. Furthermore, the pen is extremely large, even for someone like me who has huge hands, and it is not a pen I can take along with me anywhere. I have had my eyes on the Nakaya Blue Dragon in the long version :embarrassed_smile:

 

What would you do?

 

David

Edited April 6, 2012 by daoud62

[JLS1]

It sounds like you're not happy with the Sailor's size and (far more importantly) the way it writes, so I'd be inclined to apply the funds towards another pen. Before you do that, would the store:

 

1. allow you to try the NMF nib on your pen for a while (say 1-2 weeks) and

2. if you didn't like the way the NMF nib wrote, could you still return the Sailor and apply the funds towards another pen?

 

If the answer to both questions is yes, I'd give the Sailor one more chance; otherwise, return it and get yourself a pen that makes you happy. IMHO, life's too short to try and convince yourself that you like a pen that's not working for you, regardless of what you spent on it.

 

EDIT: I had to correct an unintended emoticon...

Edited April 6, 2012 by JLS1

[TDL]

I have had my Sailor Maya with a Naginata MF nib for three weeks and I have had no problems with skipping. I have tried three or four inks in it so far, mostly a variety of Iroshizukus.

 

The NMF nib is a little broad, but I am learning how to use it to obtain different effects, but it does take practice. I have to say the more I use it, the more I enjoy it. But I must confess that my Nakaya Blue Dragon portable cigar with a Mottishaw Cursive Italic fine / medium nib is still my number one.

 

I hope you enjoy using whatever pen you decide to go with, but I would never dare to offer advice on which. Good luck selecting.

[lgreen]

"I have to admit that for $1,300, I expected much more. I have contacted the dealer and they will exchange the nib for an NMF or for any other specialty nib (I have considered the Concorde Point, but I am reluctant to do so without trying it beforehand) or allow me to apply the purchase price towards a different pen. I am in a dilemma because I don't know what to do. On the one hand, I love the idea of this pen. On the other hand, this is not a museum piece, and writing with this Naginata Togi nib is not giving me any pleasure. Furthermore, the pen is extremely large, even for someone like me who has huge hands, and it is not a pen I can take along with me anywhere. I have had my eyes on the Nakaya Blue Dragon in the long version "

 

Sorry to resurrect this old topic but I am interested in what you did in the end. Did you swap for the NMF and if so was that successful or did you give up on the Sailor and/or the Naginata Togi nib entirely?

[lgreen]

anyone?

[Dr.Grace]

I'm not the OP, but I did swap an NM for NMF several years ago. The NM was just too broad for me. I love the NMF, but it does take a little practice to get the most out of it. It's especially useful if you feel comfortable switching between more vertical and more horizontal pen holds or if you can learn the trick described in another thread by FPN member pixwriter.

 

Another issue for the OP is the Susutake pen design. This seems like a clumsy writing instrument and may be designed just as an expensive showpiece or gift item.

[Doug C]

I have the same issue with the nib being entirely too wide. I have the fine nib. Has anyone had experience with a nibmeister changing these into a true fine without nasty side effects?