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Black Urushi


Johnson
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Oh, Johnson, now you've done it.

 

I LOVE the heki-tamenuri... <snip>

 

I love all the different colors for different reasons. I love the kuro because to me it is a very "metal" (as in the heavy metal music genre) type of pen, what with the deep black and red, and I love the straight black because of the zen like gothic void quality, and I love the heki because of its deep earthiness, its organic quality, which reminds me of the jamband type music I'm a fan of. don't know why I can so easily relate all the pens to music, its just what they bring to my mind.

 

since prices just went up I'm in no particular rush to purchase, though I am ready to buy at anytime. browsing and researching and asking questions and looking at pictures is part of the fun. so plenty of time to think!

happiness isn't caused

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I absolutely love the way my cigar Kuro-tamenuri looks. The color, the depth...it's so simple but incredibly satisfying. There's nothing like it, it really is a stunning pen. Unfortunately, I'm having problems with the nib. The fine nib was pretty toothy/scratchy and it wrote a bit on the dry side. I've had the nib swapped out or modified about 5 times now by Mr. Mottishaw, to try to get rid of the toothy-ness and increase inkflow. So far to no avail. It's driving me crazy. I think I'm going to just upsize to a medium and add some flex. Hopefully this will make the pen write on par with expectations.

Edited by Bambuko
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unfortunately I've read quite a bit about the scratchiness of nakaya F nibs. I'm using a steel pelikan XF right now for note taking in class and loving it. it's not exactly the smoothest nib in the world, but I write with a light touch and don't need the nib to be glassy smooth, so I hope the nakaya F works for me.

happiness isn't caused

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unfortunately I've read quite a bit about the scratchiness of nakaya F nibs. I'm using a steel pelikan XF right now for note taking in class and loving it. it's not exactly the smoothest nib in the world, but I write with a light touch and don't need the nib to be glassy smooth, so I hope the nakaya F works for me.

 

I think the key phrase really is "write with a light touch". As long as you really have a light touch when you write, I think the Nakaya Fine nib will suit you just fine.

 

I shouldn't have gotten a fine nib, but did through my own inexperience. I have big hands and frame and I tend to press down a bit too much that is ideal for a Nakaya fine nib. It was only through using other pens that I realized that. Nakaya nibs are precise enough that I can still make a fine line with a medium nib by just pressing lighter when I need to, and still have nice smoothness when pressing a bit harder in normal writing.

 

There's no substitute for experience :thumbup:

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unfortunately I've read quite a bit about the scratchiness of nakaya F nibs. I'm using a steel pelikan XF right now for note taking in class and loving it. it's not exactly the smoothest nib in the world, but I write with a light touch and don't need the nib to be glassy smooth, so I hope the nakaya F works for me.

 

 

If you like the Pelikan XF then go for the Nakaya M instead of the F. The Pelikan XF is comparable to a Nakaya M. The Nakaya M will be smoother for a larger range of writers.

 

If you want a Nakaya F to be as smooth as possible, then I recommend having the pen tuned in person (either John M. at a US Pen Show or in Japan at Nakaya or a Nakaya pen event). The key to the Nakaya experience is finding the right nib and tuning. Ask Ethernautrix about her experience with her first Nakaya.

2020 San Francisco Pen Show
August 28-30th, 2020
Pullman Hotel San Francisco Bay
223 Twin Dolphin Drive
Redwood City Ca, 94065

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Altec, I appreciate your advice, and I hate to second guess, AND I know measurements aren't everything, but Mottishaw has the Pelikan XF at .25mm, and the Nakaya F at .28mm, which would make me think they are the more equivalent tip sizes. the Nakaya M on the other hand is .49mm, making it almost twice

as wide as the Pelikan XF. I just need a pretty fine point for my class notes and don't want to end up with a

nib that's too wide.

happiness isn't caused

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The smoothness of the nib can be adjusted. I have Nakaya Fine Flex that writes very smooth. It is almost as smooth as my Nakaya Medium flex. You have to get the ink flow adjusted correctly to the way you write. My pen is setup where it will lay a line with a light touch. I think the fine is a better size for note taking than the medium nib.

 

I have used another Nakaya Fine that was setup more dry and the nib definitely had a different feel to it. It was setup for someone who would use a heavy writing pressure. They liked the way the pen wrote but I found that the pen required more pressure to lay a line.

 

If you will tell the person who is adjusting your nib your writing angle and pressure, you will have a pen that is setup more for your writing style.

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Altec, I appreciate your advice, and I hate to second guess, AND I know measurements aren't everything, but Mottishaw has the Pelikan XF at .25mm, and the Nakaya F at .28mm, which would make me think they are the more equivalent tip sizes. the Nakaya M on the other hand is .49mm, making it almost twice

as wide as the Pelikan XF. I just need a pretty fine point for my class notes and don't want to end up with a

nib that's too wide.

Alas, those tip measurements are a bit misleading because they do not directly correlate to the actual line that the pen lays down (tuning is an additional variable). My Pelikan EF makes the widest line of all my fines and extra fines, quite a bit fatter than that of my Nakaya soft Fine, and a lot wider than the Nakaya EF. At this point, I have two Nakaya EF's, one of which lays down a line that equates more to a fine, and glides better than the other one (I believe that this was entirely a matter of tuning). I write with both EF and F on a daily basis and would say that, if you need to write at speed for note taking, you would probably be better off with a F than an EF. The EF is so fine that there is not room for much tipping material and, as a result, it does not glide quite as smoothly or as fast as a fine. The pen length itself is another variable in how fast you will be able to write with it: the length must be just right for the hand. I bring this up because you mentioned a long cigar at one point. Too long slows you down; too short and the hand will fatigue faster. In order to come to these conclusions, I had to buy and use several Nakayas. If you are saving up for just one: the ideal would be if you could try before you buy.

 

ETA: Just reread your original post in which you said how much you like writing with the Pelikan EF. I agree with those who have suggested that a Nakaya Medium would likely be the equivalent.

Edited by Lady Spencerian
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Here are some writing samples.

 

 

I do not own a Nakaya with a M nib but I have a Platinum with a M nib. The nibs are the same size. The Platinum/Nakaya M is a tad wider than the Pelikan but the Pelikan nib is a bit softer so if you have a heavier hand, the line will be even wider.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6088/6151337717_77d4bf4d39_z.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since I had the camera out, a bonus Nakaya picture.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6173/6151337543_26b4ec8d8b_z.jpg

2020 San Francisco Pen Show
August 28-30th, 2020
Pullman Hotel San Francisco Bay
223 Twin Dolphin Drive
Redwood City Ca, 94065

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The smoothness of the nib can be adjusted. I have Nakaya Fine Flex that writes very smooth. It is almost as smooth as my Nakaya Medium flex. You have to get the ink flow adjusted correctly to the way you write. My pen is setup where it will lay a line with a light touch. I think the fine is a better size for note taking than the medium nib.

 

I have used another Nakaya Fine that was setup more dry and the nib definitely had a different feel to it. It was setup for someone who would use a heavy writing pressure. They liked the way the pen wrote but I found that the pen required more pressure to lay a line.

 

If you will tell the person who is adjusting your nib your writing angle and pressure, you will have a pen that is setup more for your writing style.

 

 

Alas, those tip measurements are a bit misleading because they do not directly correlate to the actual line that the pen lays down (tuning is an additional variable). My Pelikan EF makes the widest line of all my fines and extra fines, quite a bit fatter than that of my Nakaya soft Fine, and a lot wider than the Nakaya EF. At this point, I have two Nakaya EF's, one of which lays down a line that equates more to a fine, and glides better than the other one (I believe that this was entirely a matter of tuning). I write with both EF and F on a daily basis and would say that, if you need to write at speed for note taking, you would probably be better off with a F than an EF. The EF is so fine that there is not room for much tipping material and, as a result, it does not glide quite as smoothly or as fast as a fine. The pen length itself is another variable in how fast you will be able to write with it: the length must be just right for the hand. I bring this up because you mentioned a long cigar at one point. Too long slows you down; too short and the hand will fatigue faster. In order to come to these conclusions, I had to buy and use several Nakayas. If you are saving up for just one: the ideal would be if you could try before you buy.

 

ETA: Just reread your original post in which you said how much you like writing with the Pelikan EF. I agree with those who have suggested that a Nakaya Medium would likely be the equivalent.

 

Thanks Justin and Lady S for sharing. I think the key here is calling nibs.com and having a conversation with them about how I hold the pen, my intentions for using the pen, etc. I had not even considered an M before it was suggested in this thread, but I'll consider it now. For the record, the Pelikan XF I'm writing with now is definitely thinner then any of my Pelikan Fs I've owned. I wouldn't consider a Nakaya XF because I don't want to go any thinner then I am now.

 

The pen length is something I've struggled with, mainly between the long and portable. Something I really like about the long is the long section, it gives me lots of different gripping options. I don't really have any one way I grip the pen; sometimes I like gripping close to the nib, somethings I like holding it a bit further away. The longer section would give me this option. I've taken notes in the past with all kinds of different pens, from the aforementioned M100/M200 size to M800, VPs, Lamy 2000, Lamy Safari, and even an MB149 for a while. I honestly can't recall right now what effect the bigger pens had on my fatigue level. I'm sure there is an ideal size for me but I'm not sure what it is. I wish I could try before I buy I'm not aware of any pen shows that will be near me (gulf coast) anytime soon.

 

In the end it may be the portable, or even the piccolo, that ends up being right for me. But that long just speaks to me! I think I'd like the bigness without all the weight. I'm not sure if I've used a really big pen that wasn't also quite heavy, a la the M800/M1000 type.

 

Thanks everyone for the reality check. I'll seriously consider the M nib and see what the nibs.com folks have to say. I sent an email asking about the differences between rhodium and ruthenium earlier today, just getting the ball rolling.

Edited by Johnson

happiness isn't caused

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Couple of new posts popped up after I hit submit. :P

 

Here are some writing samples.

 

 

I do not own a Nakaya with a M nib but I have a Platinum with a M nib. The nibs are the same size. The Platinum/Nakaya M is a tad wider than the Pelikan but the Pelikan nib is a bit softer so if you have a heavier hand, the line will be even wider.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6088/6151337717_77d4bf4d39_z.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since I had the camera out, a bonus Nakaya picture.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6173/6151337543_26b4ec8d8b_z.jpg

 

now those writing samples are really illuminating, thank you! That Platinum/Nakaya M isn't wide at all, it looks even thinner then a Pelikan F line, if my memory serves. And your Pelikan XF line width in that photo looks very similar to the Pelikan XF I'm using now, so this is very helpful to me. Meanwhile that Nakaya F looks mighty thin, thinner then the Pelikan XF for sure. Like I said in my previous post, I don't want to go any thinner. Based on this picture, the M is the nib for me.

 

and based on the SECOND picture, that Araishu is awesome. I love that orange color.

 

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GwWhGdGmXA0/Tmz3R_lEw7I/AAAAAAAACq8/757wA9wC06w/s1600/photo.JPG

 

I love my kuro-keshi Densho

 

BLACK! man what a stunning finish on that densho, I love it! looks like you could just dive into it and become one with the massive empty void, and then have it dive back into you. :puddle:

 

man deciding on a Nakaya is hard work!

happiness isn't caused

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I realise that my Pilot 845 Custom Urushi may not have the same cachet as a Nakaya or Danitrio, but I find it hard to imagine anything with a deeper black gloss .... it makes my MB149 look a tad dull, even after a quick waxing!

 

Enjoy whatever you settle-upon :)

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

 

Don Marquis

US humorist (1878 - 1937)

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man deciding on a Nakaya is hard work!

 

It's the best kind of work, isn't it?!

...writing only requires focus, and something to write on. —John August

...and a pen that's comfortable in the hand.—moi

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First let me compliment you on your amazing taste in pens! Here are my three Piccolos in Heki-tamenuri, Black, and Kuro-tamenuri. The Black one was the first I bought and I immediately loved it. It was purchased used from another FPN member and it has a custom Kanshitsu grip section which makes the pen more comfortable to hold while writing. Like you, I also prefer the look of a silver clip with the Kuro-tamenuri, as pictured below. And all three of my Nakayas have two-tone nibs:

 

fpn_1316188434__img_3711.jpgfpn_1316188404__img_3710.jpg

The search for the perfect blue ink is a delicious and endless quest...

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First let me compliment you on your amazing taste in pens! Here are my three Piccolos in Heki-tamenuri, Black, and Kuro-tamenuri. The Black one was the first I bought and I immediately loved it. It was purchased used from another FPN member and it has a custom Kanshitsu grip section which makes the pen more comfortable to hold while writing. Like you, I also prefer the look of a silver clip with the Kuro-tamenuri, as pictured below. And all three of my Nakayas have two-tone nibs:

 

so you are saying this is where I will end up eventually, with a pen in each color? so it doesn't really matter what I start with. ;)

 

beautiful pens, I love the silver clip with the kuro, looks fantastic!

happiness isn't caused

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so you are saying this is where I will end up eventually, with a pen in each color? so it doesn't really matter what I start with. ;)

 

 

Yes, it works something like that. Each of the tamenuri colors has its own appeal, and we each have our favorite (mine is Aka-tamenuri). The more important thing at this point is getting the body style that suits you best. If I stress this, it is because I have gone through an expensive Goldilocks progression (too long, too short, just right) in Nakayas. Measure the most comfortable pen in your current collection and choose a style that is close to it. (The Nakaya website has a handy table that includes the length of the pen without its cap.) The piccolo an exception to this rule because it has the same grip diameter as the longer pens and is therefore easier to hold than most short pens.

 

Like you, I have a preference for an elongated section. Since I also like a pen that is approximately 5" in length, I chose the Kuro-tamenuri Neo Standard as my first Nakaya. The extra quarter inch of length over 5" is just a tad too long for my hand. It can be awkward to write with if I am tired or in a hurry. My next Nakaya was an Aka-tamenuri piccolo, and I love it to bits, even though it is a tad too short to be comfortable for lengthy writing sessions. (BTW, I thought I would object to the shortened section on the piccolo: it feels fine. The fact that the fingers end up partially gripping on the threading is not a problem: urushi-coated threading feels nice.) Writing with both these sizes for the past couple of months has convinced me that Nakaya's original portable cigar is probably the optimal length for the average hand.

 

It is easy to dismiss pen length as a secondary concern when a pen's body styling catches our fancy. We all have pens of various lengths in our collections, and write with them. Among those, there are a few that feel absolutely right the moment the fingers enclose the section: weight, length, and grip are all in perfect balance. That is the feel that you want in your first Nakaya. If you get it right - just one might be enough...maybe...Nah! :rolleyes:

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so you are saying this is where I will end up eventually, with a pen in each color? so it doesn't really matter what I start with. ;)

 

 

Yes, it works something like that. Each of the tamenuri colors has its own appeal, and we each have our favorite (mine is Aka-tamenuri). The more important thing at this point is getting the body style that suits you best. If I stress this, it is because I have gone through an expensive Goldilocks progression (too long, too short, just right) in Nakayas. Measure the most comfortable pen in your current collection and choose a style that is close to it. (The Nakaya website has a handy table that includes the length of the pen without its cap.) The piccolo an exception to this rule because it has the same grip diameter as the longer pens and is therefore easier to hold than most short pens.

 

Like you, I have a preference for an elongated section. Since I also like a pen that is approximately 5" in length, I chose the Kuro-tamenuri Neo Standard as my first Nakaya. The extra quarter inch of length over 5" is just a tad too long for my hand. It can be awkward to write with if I am tired or in a hurry. My next Nakaya was an Aka-tamenuri piccolo, and I love it to bits, even though it is a tad too short to be comfortable for lengthy writing sessions. (BTW, I thought I would object to the shortened section on the piccolo: it feels fine. The fact that the fingers end up partially gripping on the threading is not a problem: urushi-coated threading feels nice.) Writing with both these sizes for the past couple of months has convinced me that Nakaya's original portable cigar is probably the optimal length for the average hand.

 

It is easy to dismiss pen length as a secondary concern when a pen's body styling catches our fancy. We all have pens of various lengths in our collections, and write with them. Among those, there are a few that feel absolutely right the moment the fingers enclose the section: weight, length, and grip are all in perfect balance. That is the feel that you want in your first Nakaya. If you get it right - just one might be enough...maybe...Nah! :rolleyes:

 

It was this picture in SamCapote's excellent review that made me decide on the Long size:

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/pens/Nak/Nak9.jpg

 

The pen I'm currently using is a Pelikan of similar size to the M200 white tortoise pictured (I called it the M100 earlier in this thread, but I think it might be an M150? regardless it is M200 sized) and I usually write with it posted. In fact I almost always write with my pens posted, even up to sizes like the M800. I do not intend to write with the Nakaya posted, so it appears that unposted it will be a good length for me.

 

I am thinking the M nib will be what I go with, the writing samples tell the story for me.

happiness isn't caused

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The pen I'm currently using is a Pelikan of similar size to the M200 white tortoise pictured (I called it the M100 earlier in this thread, but I think it might be an M150? regardless it is M200 sized) and I usually write with it posted. In fact I almost always write with my pens posted, even up to sizes like the M800. I do not intend to write with the Nakaya posted, so it appears that unposted it will be a good length for me.

 

I am thinking the M nib will be what I go with, the writing samples tell the story for me.

 

It sounds as if you have carefully considered all the important variables, prior to making a choice. I wish you many happy hours writing with your new Nakaya, when you get it.

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I am biased, there is no plastic look to urushi. Below are some pictures of black urushi pens, all have a special feeling and shine to them. Go and get one! (Nakaya is the second from below and the right most nib) Good luck, Ruud

 

 

 

http://www.rhkoning.com/penpics/varia/four%20black%20urushi%20closed_600.jpg

 

http://www.rhkoning.com/penpics/varia/four%20black%20urushi%20open1_600.jpg

 

I must say this picture is making me salivate....I thought I was torn between the KOP and the Emperor black Urushi...but that Danitrio looks pretty sweet also.

 

Do you know how many layers of Urushi or used in each pen? Probably overkill information, but I'm really curious and I think it helps be a differentiator as the KOP and Emperor are priced around the same amount. Is the particular Danitrio in your photo more or less expensive than the Sailor or Namiki?

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