How to replace an Esterbrook Sac

[OcalaFlGuy]

If is fairly well established that you ONLY pull an Estie nib section with the nib unit Still In the section. This prevents the otherwise easy to occur collapsing of the section on itself during the section pull.

 

The barrel of the pen was simply too hot, I think completely irrespective of whether the nib was still in or not. (That's is why you should hold the barrel right at where you're heating it, it will get too hot for your fingers before the end of the barrel starts to melt and your fingers act as a heatsink themselves.)

 

I'm curious if there was any shellac residue evident on the section or inside front of the barrel.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[pajaro]

There was no evidence of shellac in the barrel or on the section. It looks like it was a press fit.

 

When you are doing something for the first time, nothing is well known. I didn't have any trouble with the other three Js I heated up, that had the nibs out of them. Just the one with the nib in. So, that seemed to be the reason. I don't think I will do any more of these. Examining the wide mouth on the j's section that the sac has to fit over, I bought a sac spreader, soon to come with the sacs. Luckily the sacs in the pens either disintegrated into tiny pieces or came out whole. It was interesting to note, looking into the barrel, that you only have to move the lever to about a thirty degree angle to depress the bar fully squeezing the sac.

 

As the mainframe computer hardware techs used to say, "the problem was caused by the loose nut in the chair."

[OcalaFlGuy]

On your sacs;

 

Lube with some water or slobber on the nibble and practice putting on the sacs, it'll help a lot. I also put one on like that for 3-6 hrs before I install for real as I think that has the sac relax some for an easier install.

 

I've used a couple different styles of spreaders and I find they just get in the way. They always seem to be Exactly where You need to be to get the sac on with them. The pros I've heard comment on them say the same thing.

 

The method I use, and everyone will develop their own touches. If I know I need to do some saccing I'll let my fingernails grow to where I'd normally trim them for more grippage. Shellac the nipple, hold it with left thumb and forefinger. Hook the bottom edge of the sac under the bottom of the nipple having sac pointing downward about 45 deg. The fingernails help to keep the sac up against the nipple. I use a pair of sharp (but not the needle ones = Too sharp) pointy (not angle cut)

Revlon tweezers to grip the top of the sac and pull it on. The next second is critical when you drop the tweezers at the same time you scrunch the sac the rest of the way on. (It'll want to otherwise jump right off.)

 

Practice really does help, just a few times and you'll find yourself getting the feel for it and you won't so likely end up with shellac under your eyelids. :roflmho:

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Harlequin]

I don't have a heat gun, just a hair dryer. So, how long should i hold the pen in front of the hair dryer (on it's high setting), and about how far away? I've tried for up to a minute so far, and nothing was even close to budging. I'm hesitant to hold it there longer b.c I don't want to harm it in any way. So I figured I'd ask! ^_^

[OcalaFlGuy]

That's hard to give a good answer to.

 

Perhaps the biggest variable with a hair dryer will be it's outlet size, usually way larger than you really need for pen work. That's bad for two reasons, it dilutes the temperature level Where you need it and unnecessarily heats areas of the pen you don't need or want heated. The very small and aimable outlet on the hobby heat embossing guns is a big positive for them for these reasons.

 

The faster you bring the material up in temp to the highest safest temp and the shorter time the material is in that heat, the better, again, another positive for the heat guns over the hair dryer. (And of course, the heat guns are usually less than $20 too.)

 

Get the dryer as close as it takes for your fingers, holding the pen just aft of the say first 1/2" of the barrel you want heated, can barely stand the heat and turn the barrel in that stream so the whole portion around the barrel gets heated too. I myself wrap the nib and section with a piece of bicycle inner tube and tack it down with a sliver of making tape. This keeps heat OFF the section and allows it to expand from said heating slower than the barrel that's IN the heat stream. It also allows for extra secure gripping. (The bicycle tubes are thinner than car or motorcycle tubes.)

 

HTH,

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[derevaun]

This thread has been immensely helpful! I will only add an anecdotal lesson:

 

I found a copper LJ at an antique mall with the section only partially fitted into the barrel. After some fitful work, the section finally came out, leaving the sac in the barrel! It became clear that someone had resacked the pen, but pushed the new sac too far--it was over the nipple's shoulder and got pinched between the barrel and the section. Luckily, it didn't crack the barrel as far as I can see. It did stretch it and now it's a loose fit, so I asume I'll need to give the section a thin layer of shellac to build it up for a good friction fit?

 

So a cautionary tale--be careful to push the new sac only onto the nipple, not past it onto the part that friction fits with the barrel.

[hankosaurus]

My sincere compliments and gratitude to Chiro75 and all who contributed to this thread. I found a black Esterbrook J recently and looked here for help. How happy I was to find this thread!

 

By following the heat gun dialogue and using the rubber bands, I was able to remove the nib holding section safely. As warned, I found that it was indeed a struggle, but it eventually squeaked straight out with considerable on-axis twisting and hard pulling. I wonder if the hair dryer softened the barrel a bit, allowing it to stretch during that time. I didn't see any residue on the face of the part that came out. It appeared to be a friction fit, and smooth as glass.

 

Using an anvil, a hammer, a file, and a fine sharpening stone, I shaped a piece of coat hanger wire into a tool resembling the one shown by the OP to clean out the black crumbled stuff that was the old (original, I suppose) sac. That part went well. Now, I'm ready to order some sacs, talc, and the shellac.

 

The black plastic barrel and cap were pretty abraded when I got the pen. I polished that with bottled Turtle Wax and a piece of cotton fabric. Looks as shiny as new!

 

My mother had a similar, but green Esterbrook back in the 50s. I remember that she treasured hers and used it for "shorthand" writing. This one has the number 9668 on the nib, and it wrote smoothly when I dipped it and wrote a few words several days ago. I'm Looking forward to writing with the Esterbrook J.

[Noel249]

The hair dryer, I believe, helps soften the encrusted gunk around the nib so that it can be twisted without creating irreparable cracks.

 

I borrowed a cuticle pusher from my wife, which can be purchased for as little as a dollar, to clean out the old barrel. http://amzn.to/YVpkYO

 

I remembered seeing it in one of the bathroom drawers and when I saw the "special tool" for scraping out the barrel realized, "that should work." And it did. My wife happens to own the Tweezerman brand.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2013 by Noel249

[OakIris]

I, too, found this tutorial and subsequent discussion very helpful, and I was able to successfully resac a lovely copper Estie Transitional "J" this weekend. (I am hoping I have the correct model designation for my new Estie - it has the 3 band cap jewel.)

 

I used a different method to remove the section. This may not be "kosher" but after trying and trying unsuccessfully to use heat to remove the section - it didn't budge at all and I think I worked on it for over an hour - I ended up soaking the pen (water just barely covering the place where the section and body meet) overnight and was able to pull the section off with ease the next morning. This tip came from a fellow Colorado Pen Posse member who said that is how he has always loosened up the section on Esties for sac replacement. It worked perfectly, no harm to section or barrel, and everything fit back together as it should.

 

Now, it could be I was using the heat too conservatively, having recently had a terrible accident involving stupidity, heat and a now ruined Eversharp Skyline, but this soaking method worked so it is what I will definitely try in the future.

 

Other than the fact that there are some materials that should never be soaked in water, is there a reason why heat is recommended instead of soaking to release the section?

 

Holly

[OcalaFlGuy]

Actually Holly, that's a really good question IMO.

 

My first response is that soaking the pen doesn't do anything to help with the facts that the plastic may have shrunk some over the years and become more brittle while using heat Does help in those areas.

 

I will admit to the dirty little secret that I was first taught the soak method to remove Estie sections and while I've read The Pros argue against it, it worked ok most of the times for me when I was using it. I feel more comfortable now using heat though as I've done it enough times now to get used to it. I would also admit that While Still In The Learning Stage, using heat can probably be more risky than the soak method to a beginning repair person.

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Do it however you get clawed the least.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[hankosaurus]

I have a question for the group.

 

I am reading that orange shellac is the preferred adhesive for attaching a new sac in a fountain pen. I am also reading that shellac degrades. As soon as shellac comes in contact with alcohol (its solvent) it begins a degradation process called esterification in which the shellac resins convert to shellac esters. The more esters are created, the slower the shellac dries and the softer and more prone to water spotting the final film is (in woodworking). This process occurs whether the container holding the shellac has been opened or not.

 

Now the question:

Does the quality of orange/amber shellac becoming slow to dry (because it was past date when used) and remaining tacky present a problem in the application wherein it is used for attaching an ink sac to a fountain pen?

 

:hmm1:

[OakIris]

Actually Holly, that's a really good question IMO.

 

My first response is that soaking the pen doesn't do anything to help with the facts that the plastic may have shrunk some over the years and become more brittle while using heat Does help in those areas.

 

I will admit to the dirty little secret that I was first taught the soak method to remove Estie sections and while I've read The Pros argue against it, it worked ok most of the times for me when I was using it. I feel more comfortable now using heat though as I've done it enough times now to get used to it. I would also admit that While Still In The Learning Stage, using heat can probably be more risky than the soak method to a beginning repair person.

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Do it however you get clawed the least.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

Thank you for your response, Bruce. So water is a viable alternative but heat is preferred...as one very new at this pen repair game (only replacing sacs at this time) I will probably try soaking first and then use heat if that fails. I was using an embossing heat gun. I used it twice, the first time when I destroyed my Skyline :embarrassed_smile: and this second time when it failed to do anything. And then it died - great product, huh? Good for one and a half uses - so I resorted to a hair dryer. Apparently I need to invest in a much better heat gun that has temp settings instead of the "hobby" embossing heat gun I used. Hate to spend the money on something that I probably will seldom use, but worth it if it keeps me from destroying another vintage pen.

 

Holly

[pajaro]

Shellac is used as an adhesive where the parts must one day again be separated. The old sac must come off so that a new sac can be installed. You might use it to hold a section into a barrel. You might use shellac as a sealant, as in sealing the section threads of a Parker 51 to screw the hood on and prevent ink seapage. In all these cases you don't want a permanent bond, because the parts might have to be separated for later maintenance. If the shellac adhesion degrades, clean it up with alcohol and apply some more shellac. You might consider replacing the sac if that is the matter at hand, to restore the maintenance interval.

 

Jus a note, I have recently removed Estie sections on an SJ transitional and on a Transitional J and found that the sections could be pushed back after resac and they would stay in because there was a good friction fit, but not the usual killer fit. I am leaving them that way, because the next time someone does this job it will be easy. I am not going to shellac those sections in. The fit is tight enough.

Edited April 16, 2013 by pajaro

[hankosaurus]

... If the shellac adhesion degrades, clean it up with alcohol and apply some more shellac. You might consider replacing the sac if that is the matter at hand, to restore the maintenance interval.

Hello Pajaro.

 

Forgive me for being a little dense. Does the 3 year shelf life of mixed up orange shellac (shellac crystals + alcohol) matter in a pen sac replacement? What if the date of manufacture was 4-1/4 years ago? I have an unopened can that was manufactured in Jan of 09, and I'm not sure it's okay to use.

 

Thanks.

[OakIris]

... If the shellac adhesion degrades, clean it up with alcohol and apply some more shellac. You might consider replacing the sac if that is the matter at hand, to restore the maintenance interval.

Hello Pajaro.

 

Forgive me for being a little dense. Does the 3 year shelf life of mixed up orange shellac (shellac crystals + alcohol) matter in a pen sac replacement? What if the date of manufacture was 4-1/4 years ago? I have an unopened can that was manufactured in Jan of 09, and I'm not sure it's okay to use.

 

Thanks.

Here is a thread with good info about how long orange shellac will retain its properties: Orange shellac shelf life

 

Four and a quarter years old might be a bit too long, but I would say test the shellac, put a small amount on a non-porous surface and see if it dries hard, not gummy or sticky... If it is past its prime, get one of the small bottles of shellac available at places like Pendemonium or Richardspens, etc. Unless you plan to repair pens professionally, that small amount will last for a long time and won't break the bank if you have to replace it again!

 

Holly

Edited April 17, 2013 by OakIris

[hankosaurus]

Thanks for the guidance, Holly.

 

I will test it as you say. If it dries within an hour or two without being tacky, I'll use it. Otherwise I will get some fresh orange shellac.

[OakIris]

Thanks for the guidance, Holly.

 

I will test it as you say. If it dries within an hour or two without being tacky, I'll use it. Otherwise I will get some fresh orange shellac.

 

Glad that I could help.

 

Hope your shellac is still good - seems a shame to waste all of that hard work by the lac bug!

 

Holly

[hankosaurus]

Glad that I could help.

Hope your shellac is still good - seems a shame to waste all of that hard work by the lac bug!

Holly

Hello Holly.

 

The old shellac dried just fine. The pen is back together with a new sac, and is writing very nicely. Thanks to you and the Forum Members within this thread, I now have a beautiful, working Esterbrook pen in my modest collection.

 

Oh, by the way, if anyone has in mind to buy orange shellac in the can, he/she should know that the date codes for Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac (They call the orange shellac amber.) are a bit cryptic since its owner company, Rustoleum, departed from literal dates. Here is an example "decoded" according to an explanation I found on a woodworking website:

 

Lot S3107AN

 

I don't know what the "S" means. Shellac?

The "3" after it means it was manufactured in 2013.

The next digit ("1") means January. If it had read O, N, or D, it would have meant October, November, or December, respectively.

The next two digits ("07") mean the seventh day of the month.

I don't know what the "AN" means.

 

Perusing the Rustoleum site, I could not find any such information. Maybe I just don't know how to find it.

[JonSzanto]

Just wanted to give a shout to Bruce and the thread: I've had this on my watch list since inception, because I was ending up with Esties that needed sacs. I knew I'd eventually get around to it. I've had the supplies for a couple months. The other night, I performed my first ever fountain pen resaccing, completely successful.

 

Except it wasn't one of the many Esterbrooks needing a sac, it was a Waterman's Taperite. I just couldn't wait, I wanted to get this pen writing! Thankfully, it all worked out, but it is a *lot* more fragile than the Esties, so I'm glad I didn't muck it up.

 

Thanks for all the helpful info in the thread, folks.

[pen2paper]

Just wanted to give a shout to Bruce and the thread: I've had this on my watch list since inception, because I was ending up with Esties that needed sacs. I knew I'd eventually get around to it. I've had the supplies for a couple months. The other night, I performed my first ever fountain pen resaccing, completely successful.

 

Except it wasn't one of the many Esterbrooks needing a sac, it was a Waterman's Taperite. I just couldn't wait, I wanted to get this pen writing! Thankfully, it all worked out, but it is a *lot* more fragile than the Esties, so I'm glad I didn't muck it up.

 

Thanks for all the helpful info in the thread, folks.

it is a good thread.

There's nothing like owning, then resaccing your first estie.

 

Now I'm mentally preparing to redo a snorkle!