Vaseline For Pelikan Piston?

[wtlh]

I have recently stumbled across the advice in Montblanc forum that silicone grease will cause micro-cracks on the Montblanc resin. This advice seemed to be coming from Maxpens and Tom Westerich, two very much respected pen restorers. Some more digging on this forum found that Maxpens also suggests that silicon grease is bad for PMMA, which is perhaps the basis of the material used for the precious resin and I believe also that used on Pelikan pens. They recommend one to use Vaseline. Originally I thought this advice was just for Montblanc, but after some searching, I found this article from the penboard.de, which you can also see from here

 

http://www.caprafico.com/pens-88/pelikan-pen-restoration-275

 

I quote the line relevant:

 

Pelikan 400 and 140 barrels feature friction fit piston mechanisms.

 

Knockout tool and knocked out piston of a Pelikan 140

These have got to be pushed out from the front. Grabbing the piston mechanism with a set of pliers and pulling it will result in a cracked piston. You need to unscrew the entire nib unit, insert a metal pin of the exact diameter and knock out the piston. Moderately heat the barrel, up to a max of 80 degrees Celsius.

(funnily, the situation with friction fit Montblanc pens from the 60ies is exactly the opposite: knocking the pistons out would crack the interiors, they in fact need to be pulled out from the back. )

Here is a common defect, occuring when ink dries inside the barrel:

you find the turning knob came off the barrel.

this is a rather simple operation:

seems, the piston got glued to the barrel, by dried ink,

then, by forcing the turning knob, the piston got loose -

there is a friction fitting of the piston rod to the turning knob,

which breaks loose before all the rest breaks in pieces.

 

You need to knock out the remainders of the piston from the front (after screwing out the nib unit)

Having knocked it out, push back the piston rod into the turning knob,

re-assemble the mechanic and push it all back into the barrel.

Don´t forget to throroughly clean barrel and piston,

then - from the front, give a very thin layer of vaseline fat to the barrel.

After doing this, insert some tissue to take off any excess grease.

Make sure not to grease the part of barrel, where the piston is friction fit.

 

It seems that the recommendation also applies to Pelikan pens.

 

I am quite confused, and a bit worried as I have been lubricating my pens with 100% pure silicone grease always, and knew that petroleum based oil or jelly (what Vaseline is) will damage rubber and many plastics. However this is advice coming from two very experienced restorers, so I would not dismiss it straight away. I also know that Richard Binder recommends the opposite, and he explicitly wrote on his website that one should never use Vaseline but should use 100% pure silicone grease. So there seemed to be some contradicting believes. What do other experts think?

 

Thanks.

Edited February 6, 2011 by wtlh

[Ernst Bitterman]

I've seen the effects of Vaseline on various plastics, and I'll happily stand behind Richard's banner on this question. Frankly, apart from making horrible messes that defy cleaning, I can't think of an actual use for Vaseline. For pens, stick with the silicone.

[mholve]

Personally, I would never use Vaseline in a pen. It eats rubber, being petroleum-based (as I'm sure other things). Perhaps not so much silicone rubber, but still.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Pen Repair book, pg 194.

MB

'''the gasket some silicon grease to allow smooth movement in the barrel.""""

 

pg 192 Pelikan

""" after drying off excess liquid paraffin, cover it in silicone grease and re-install.....

 

pg 198 Soennecken.

coat the soaked in paraffin oil cork,...with a small amount of silicon grease.

 

Well is is possible MB's delicate problems need Vaseline, as said.

[Rick Propas]

Vaseline as grease for a pen of any type is a bad idea.

 

I respect Tom, but not on this issue.

[mr goldfink]

I concur with Rick on this. Vaseline is not something I'd recommend for skin never mind precious resin. ;-)

[1000km]

Vaseline will destroy your Pelikan - do not use it. As for your Montblanc - go ahead. One less Montblanc in the world can only be a good thing.

[PJohnP]

Simply put, vaseline or similar petroleum based materials are not compatible with most fountain pen polymeric materials in terms of long term material stability. The effects can manifest slowly, or if the materials are already compromised in some fashion, rather quickly, but the use of vaseline is inadvisable.

 

Silicone lubricant, where it's the pure material not otherwise mixed with a petroleum based lubricant, is likely the best available material to use, understanding that there are compromises of many kinds for lubricity effects (the science and engineering of tribology is too large a topic to delve into here). That said, the aging process with moving/twisting/capping/uncapping parts, stresses of pistons sliding up and down the barrel, torquing of the pen body when the nib is pressed to paper, all of these will cause the pen material to subtly degrade over time regardless of the lubricant. What's pretty clear for me is that using and enjoying the pen takes a higher priority to me than keeping it pristine in a box, never to lay down a smooth line of ink.

 

YMMV, of course.

 

 

 

John P.

[jgrasty]

Silicone grease is the proper lubricant for a pen. Vaseline would be a disaster.

[eric47]

I have recently stumbled across the advice in Montblanc forum that silicone grease will cause micro-cracks on the Montblanc resin.

 

In case anyone is interested, I believe this is the original thread (from 2007) in the Montblanc forum regarding silicone v. vaseline in MB resin pens. There's a reply from Tom W.

 

Tom is here at FPN, one could always send him a PM or email to ask whether or not that 3+ year old advise is still valid.

Edited February 7, 2011 by eric47

[wtlh]

I have recently stumbled across the advice in Montblanc forum that silicone grease will cause micro-cracks on the Montblanc resin.

 

In case anyone is interested, I believe this is the original thread (from 2007) in the Montblanc forum regarding silicone v. vaseline in MB resin pens. There's a reply from Tom W.

 

Tom is here at FPN, one could always send him a PM or email to ask whether or not that 3+ year old advise is still valid.

 

 

Sorry, may be I should have linked the original threads as a reference. This is the thread posted recently that actually triggered my interests/worries. It seems that most MB people still believe in vaseline. Also check out this thread, which is also posted recently, and This one, which Max (reply #5) suggested which I quote:

 

Very good idea to use Silicone, but only if you like to destroy your pen. Montblanc Resin and Silicon do not fit together, Silicon activate/form hairline cracks within the Montblanc Resin. And not only in the Montblanc Resin, most of the PMMA´s in this group of Resin do not like Silicon. On the other hand the capillary`s of the feed also do not like Silocon. Maybe you have a good working piston, next problem is the inkflow. Also it can be a problem that you can not remove the nib and feed like in the Pelikan pens.

The idea is good and maybe it works with Pelikan, but you can be sure that this is not good for Montblanc pens.

 

The highlighted line is what worried me.

Edited February 7, 2011 by wtlh

[ralfstc]

Frankly, apart from making horrible messes that defy cleaning, I can't think of an actual use for Vaseline.

 

Ummmmm . . . .

 

 

Lip salve?

[rogerb]

yes, I thought of that...and cork-grease for saxophone mouthpieces!

Both tend to have a little added perfume or 'flavouring'.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Seeing I'm writing a western taking place in 1881....the 'new' Vaseline was the greatest thing going....wonderful stuff. "Up to Date!"

 

Not that 'good' women wore more than a whisper of make up only though if Old, but it gave a glisten to the lips and eye lids.

 

Lady's of the Evening best friend. Make up could be repaired in a jiffy. Applied to the eye lid, made a great base for some teal eye make up.

 

Lots of things....out side of pens.

 

I do hope my MB 234 1/2 Deluxe (52-55 only) stays healthy. It has such a great semi-flex KOB nib.

Well I think it looks better than the 146-9 New Balance clones, my self.

 

I do have to admit, IMO it looks better more 'up to date' sleeker than the 139.

All in all a great pen, standard sized, fantastic nib, nice girth, great back weighted balance, and last but not least....good looks.

 

It took me a bit of time for that 'odd looking' to my noobiehood, sort of ugly pen, to revile itself as the true beauty it is.

 

Like the first time I tried dirty tasting sour French Bordeaux Châteaux wine. ...yep now I really like dirty tasting sour French wine.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[Possum Hill]

I've seen the effects of Vaseline on various plastics, and I'll happily stand behind Richard's banner on this question. Frankly, apart from making horrible messes that defy cleaning, I can't think of an actual use for Vaseline. For pens, stick with the silicone.

Vaseline is very useful for lubricating O-rings for assembly and sometime for holding parts together lightly. But not in pens. Silicone is good.

[stefanv]

I was looking through some of the threads linked above, and found this quotation:

 

I went for a touch of Vaseline on the advice of an ex MB worker who made reference to silicon grease 'possibly' being the cause of some pens suffering cracks from the use of this.

 

Notice that 'possibly' has quotes around it. Someone probably decided that all the MB pens with cracks had been lubed with silicone grease, and therefore that was possibly the cause of the problem. Well guess what, all the (probably many more) MB pens without cracks were also lubed with silicone grease.

 

'Possibly', the cracks in the MB pens were caused by using ink in them. One should never put ink in one's pens. All the pens I've ever seen cracks in have had ink put in them. :)

 

It seems to me that when there is a problem with an unknown cause, arbitrarily changing something (in this case, the type of grease), to something that is known to be bad (petroleum-based grease for plastic) is not a wise move. Perhaps MB simply had a less-precious-than-usual batch of resin?

 

On the other hand, maybe "silicon" grease was indeed the problem. Any grease with fine particles of sand in it is going to cause problems in a plastic pen. But "silicone" grease should be fine.

[rockspyder]

Does anyone make a Teflon-based grease that might work? :hmm1:

[PJohnP]

Does anyone make a Teflon-based grease that might work? :hmm1:

 

Really really difficult issue with PTFE (generic name for Teflon®) as it's a solid at room temperature, so it would necessarily need to be a suspension of quite small particulates (and we'd also have to find a suspension material, another headache). The particle size would have to be extremely tightly controlled, or it would leading to clogging issues, probably fatal ones as there would be no solvent or temperature able to clear the blockage that wouldn't obliterate most of the pen body.

 

Good idea, and I'd be keenly interested in the lubricant if you could overcome those challenges...

 

 

 

John P.

Edited February 9, 2011 by PJohnP

[Pelikanyo]

Vaseline as grease for a pen of any type is a bad idea.

 

I respect Tom, but not on this issue.

 

Bad idea...no petroleum products on pens.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Pelikanyo

[jorgerp1]

I only use pure silicon grease on my works!