To Shake Or Not To Shake

[River]

Thanks both of you.

[Gobblecup]

One thing you can try is a bit of dilution of the ink that concerns you. Yes, these are notoriously saturated inks. Diluting the bulletproof inks does not in anyway damage their waterproof quality. Less of the ink particles that bind will be laid on the page, but depending on the color and the nib width/flow, in all likelihood you'll notice no difference at all. But you may have slightly less film in the converter.

 

I'm not talking about a big dilution. Play with it perhaps. Start out with something like 1:5 water to ink and see if the color still suits and the ink behavior is still as you would like then check the signs of saturation that are troubling you. With WP black for example, I would imagine that for most users that are not drawing but simply want a good waterproof ink for writing, you could get away with a 1:3 water to ink it is that dark. if you're drawing and need a really fine dark line - probably less so.

 

just a thought. May or may not alleviate any issues.

 

In the case dilution will not affect the bulletproof qualities of my Noodler's inks, I will proceed to DILUTE!

 

Thanks for letting me know this, I was avoiding diluting my bulletproof inks.

[physicsgirl]

When you reach my age, shaking is no longer optional.

 

 

:roflmho:

 

:roflmho:

 

I shake my inks, but I make sure to check them out first. I always uncap and check for SITB (then recap) and then give them a little shake.

[SamCapote]

When you reach my age, shaking is no longer optional.

 

 

:roflmho:

 

:roflmho:

 

I shake my inks, but I make sure to check them out first. I always uncap and check for SITB (then recap) and then give them a little shake.

 

Very wise first step! I always forget to mention that.

 

Remember too that not all SITB is obvious and floating on top, or visible in darker inks. It is one of the reasons I have have developed KCat's habit of pipette transferring a sample to a small plastic vial (see pinned topic on Ink Sample Exchange, or get them from Goulet Pens) checking for the ominous slimy stranding as you withdraw, and use a bright LED light behind the plastic vial. You can always wash out and reuse the pipette/vials (may want to add a disinfecting step with bleach, alcohol, or Sporicidin - and re-rinse).

[kahhoewan]

is Nathan from noodlers a fountain pen member? maybe he can give us a definitive answer.

[DanielCoffey]

is Nathan from noodlers a fountain pen member? maybe he can give us a definitive answer.

 

To what? And remember, this is not a Noodler's discussion thread.

[marvinreader]

Just my take on Noodlers: I lost a Lamy Safari fine filled and partially used with Summer Tanger (Noodler's) a year and a half ago. Just found it again. It actually still wrote and cleaned up easily. Maybe combo of pen and ink, but obviously in the extreme of sitting for 18 months capped and lost in a sofa, still worked.

[tanalasta]

Inks should not sediment.

 

Inks that do sediment, don't look crystal smooth or have any floating bits on the top go in the bin.

 

I've been bitten once and realise it's not only the risk of clogging a pen, but the cost of sending even one pen to be cleaned and serviced properly after contamination for me to be happy far exceeds a bottle (even several) of ink. I'm not the biggest fan of Noodler's inks, despite having used them for several years - as an avid believer - as I find consistency better in my less saturated inks. And I keep spilling the darned ink when I open the full bottle.

 

That said, Noodler's have very innovative and a wide range of colours and the bulletproof nature of their inks is not replicated by many, except pigment inks which have their own inherent maintainence issues.

[Possum Hill]

Inks should not sediment.

 

...

 

Or we could see what an ink manufacturer has to say about it.

[SamCapote]

Inks should not sediment.

 

...

 

Or we could see what an ink manufacturer has to say about it.

 

Good quoted reference!

 

Also this thread pokes a hole in the "should not sediment" sentiment.

 

Basically, there is good and bad (i.e. fungal contamination) sediment, and a "gray zone" in between where one needs to be aware that a certain ink may do better in better flowing pens, may require more frequent use (don't let sit for a week), and more careful/frequent monitoring and maintenance. Then there are the nano sized pigmented inks (Sailor & Platinum) that have behaved well for most people. Absolute rules are rarely logical, certainly not when it comes to evaluating ink. It's better to have flexible consideration from ink to ink; brand to brand. Some inks work wonderfully in one pen, but the same bottle does not work well with another pen.

[AlecG]

I feel I have no option, using a particle ink (Sailor Kiwa-Guro). I also use the Parker Penman bottle, so I need to tip it over in order to be able to fill my pen. But also the original Sailor bottle needs to be tipped over, more or less "shaking" things up.

Usually I swirl it a bit, than turn it upside down and back a few times and let it stand for a minute to get most of the ink out of the cap and have not to many bubbles.

 

If you have any sediment (certainly in dye inks) or slime (in any ink), I wouldn't think of even using it, I would just dump it in the bin and get the pen apart, rinsing everything very very carefully wit a little ammonia in the water. I don't want to risk my Sailor 1911 Realo Naginata Togi or a Pelikan 1931 or 1935.

[Possum Hill]

If you have any sediment (certainly in dye inks) or slime (in any ink), I wouldn't think of even using it, I would just dump it in the bin and get the pen apart, rinsing everything very very carefully wit a little ammonia in the water. I don't want to risk my Sailor 1911 Realo Naginata Togi or a Pelikan 1931 or 1935.

With a very few exceptions, dye inks eventually develop what appears to be sediment. Generally, agitation reverses the separation.

[SamCapote]

If you have any sediment (certainly in dye inks) or slime (in any ink), I wouldn't think of even using it, I would just dump it in the bin and get the pen apart, rinsing everything very very carefully wit a little ammonia in the water. I don't want to risk my Sailor 1911 Realo Naginata Togi or a Pelikan 1931 or 1935.

With a very few exceptions, dye inks eventually develop what appears to be sediment. Generally, agitation reverses the separation.

 

It is impossible to dispel the belief a limited number of people have that any and all inks with any sediment is bad, and requires disposal. Of course this is not true, but if they wish to waste their money tossing ink, that is their right. The link to my thread with photos I took in my previous post did not include every reputable brand I saw it in.

 

Nor would I use highly saturated inks with a propensity to develop a sediment if left sitting for months/years in a prized vintage pen, especially with a piston/sac filler. Some have more sediment than others, and form sediment faster than others. These are higher risk inks, but using the pen regularly, flushing sooner than your normal time are ways to safely enjoy these inks.

 

.

Edited June 16, 2011 by SamCapote

[AlecG]

As a user of inks I dont have the time nor the desire to find out exactly what sedimenting or seperating inks can or can't be used. I just make the simple calculation that tossing an ink worth $10 or even $25 in rare cases is more sensible than risking to clog a $500-$1000 pen like a pelikan 1931. Or even the $300 sailor.

And in 30 years of using fountain pens, I've had one bottle of ink that had some slime in it. I think that was a red Herbin, but I'm not sure. So that is one bottle in 30 years and I've had at least 200 bottles. So <0,5% is not so costly that I should risk pens for it.

It's different when you bought 50 bottles in 25 colors and discover in half of them slime within a month orso. But even overhere that might be an exception.

 

I know Sam has an enormous amount of knowledge, experience and done quite some research into inks, slime, sediments and separation, but I for one don't have that knowledge, nor the time or background as a chemist to grasp all that happens in those inks. So I use inks that work (almost perfect) for me and go on with writing.

 

Edit: the pelikan 1931/1935 is a (more or less) true copie of the originals, so these are no vintage, but are quite pricey never the less. I bought them new but with a 60% discount as the had been laying in the shop for 8 years orso. If I know would need to buy them at nibs.com (I saw them there last week orso) it would be well out of my price range.

Edited June 16, 2011 by alecgold

[Possum Hill]

 

It is impossible to dispel the belief a limited number of people have that any and all inks with any sediment is bad, and requires disposal.

 

...

True, but it seems a little too opportunistic and self-serving to tell them to send the questionable ink to me for proper disposal without even suggesting they could still use it themselves.

[Joane]

A couple of times I've found sediment in the bottom of a bottle of ink and I prefer not to have sediment in my pens. What I do is pour off the clear ink into a glass, rinse out the sediment from the bottle, dry the inside of the bottle and pour the clear ink back in.

[SamCapote]

Alec/Joane/et. al., those are perfectly legitimate strategies, and people should always do what works best for them. Sorry if that sounded personally directed, or of a negative tone.

 

I was more wanting to poke a hole in the "absolutely always bad" idea regarding sediment in inks that is perpetuated without legitimate evidence. If I had to guess, (other than the three bad batches of a certain German ink) I would say that < 1% of the time I have seen a sediment, (pipetted it out, and checked sediments under the microscope) did it turn out to be bad (contaminated or ink breaking down chemically). Most inks are well designed and include an effective biocide, making a worrisome contamination quite rare. Most people will never have a bad (contaminated and/or chemical breakdown) bottle of ink.

 

I think a reasonable strategy getting back to this topic title, if people see a sediment, dip a clean plastic rod, toothpick, or metal rod/pick to see if there is any slime/goo. If not, then shake the bottle to mix the sediment. Let it sit for a day and see if it returns. If not, then use it. If it does return, then follow Joane's strategy of decanting the liquid ink (and/or run through a coffee filter), rinsing the sediment out, and return the ink.

 

I will say with certainty that gooey slime or mucous type contamination is always bad.

Edited June 17, 2011 by SamCapote

[bjcmatthews]

I always take my ink like James Bond: Shaken, not stirred

[Kaptenmork]

I bought a bottle of Noodlers orange today, and the lady in the shop advice me to shake it before use.

[DanielCoffey]

The Noodler's inks really do need shaking because they are so saturated... especially those with any of his bulletproof black component in it which settles out in a matter of days.