"bunch Of Blues" Part One

[SamCapote]

I have long wanted to see how a bunch of similar colors would look when written with the same exact pen, Q-tip, and page scanned at same time. All the various resources like The Writing Desk and Goulet's Swab Shop are great, but they are swabbed, scanned, and adjusted separately, so it get's confusing as to what might be lost. So I got this idea to do all the blues that are kind of similar, and try writing with same nib, and scan on two pages with the same scanner settings. Well so much for theory when mapped into real production!!! This took friggin forever to do, since I had to develop a system where I could not cross-contaminate the inks, and had to make sure nib was totally clean and dry from previous ink. Then, I realized that the 0.7mm Brause Ornamental Dip Nib was laying down a pretty wet line, and I would need to also do a 0.5mm size to show practical line variations. So far I have at least 35 inks which are all sort of in this general blue category...but I think it will go up to 50 by the time I look at all the other blues I have, so this is sort of a test result to see how useful it is.

 

I used the Clairefontaine Pupitre tablet paper, but I think I am going to need to use my Laser printer to print out a better organized set of boxes so it looks "cleaner." I tried to adjust the Epson V600 Scanner to represent colors as close as possible on my Samsung Syncmaster XL2370 monitor, but like Greg Clark discovered, there is no substitute for the actual live paper sample. There are too many nuances that the eye can appreciate which a scanner has a hard time matching....but this image is pretty close by my reckoning. See what you all think as to how useful this is. You may find the larger photo gives more subtle comparisons. Trust me, that these "do not all look the same," so if everyone feels they all look the same, then it's probably not worth trying to do a project like this on scanned images. First thing you will notice is the grid on the paper does not show on this first version after I adjusted it to have better color accuracy. I'll post some other versions with various scanner settings. The scan on the right was how it first came through with default settings, and the paper does not have that violet tinge in between the grid. Maybe I should use a different paper.

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Bluess.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue1s.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited December 11, 2010 by SamCapote

[SamCapote]

OK, then here are 6 more variations in running scans trying to capture more accurate colors, so you can see the mischief involved with scanned image manipulation. At least they are all manipulated together.

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue2s.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue3s.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue4s.jpg

 

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue5s.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue6s.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue7s.jpg

[Alohamora]

I only own 2 of the inks you scanned, Eclat de Saphir and Everflo True Blue. I think the first large size image you posted looks very, very close for both of those in hue, just a little too bright. And the brightness probably comes from the brightness of my monitor compared to the brightness of my room lighting (natural light coming in the window right by my desk, cloudy sky).

 

Of the smaller images in the second post, the first, Blue2.jpg, looks closest to real life for me.

[ajcoleman]

Very nice! I appreciate the effort. I definitely think using the same pen, paper, and scan is the best way to compare similar inks. Thanks a bunch!!

[Sandy1]

Hello,

 

Thank-you very much.

 

I do not think that I can add all so much about the process or the result.

 

IMHO, there is a need to understand and support the intention/s of the viewers. Have they come to see the appearance of an ink? Or have they come to choose an ink of a certain nature amongst other similar inks? (especially amongst the Blue inks, where there is a surfeit of choice)

 

I think the appearance of an ink may best be depicted in the Ink Review/s: where various aspects of an ink are displayed, with a narrative and Member replies.

 

With comparisons, the importance is not so much the singular accuracy of one ink - but the relative accuracy amongst more than one inks.

 

So for comparisons, it may be OK to 'jazz-up' accurate scans to better portray the differences as perceived from the ink-on-paper-in-natural-daylight-by-a-person-with-perfect-colour-vision. Or not ...

 

I have yet to determine what, if any, sort of 'wrap-up' I'll be giving the OOTT series of Blue inks, so we'll see what comes to pass. Your OP has given me more to consider and procrastinate about.

 

Bye,

S1

 

EDIT - To add:

When I have my ink array to hand once again, I may see what sort of mischief I can get into.

(I know I'm on the Santa's Naughty List, so I might as well make the most of that situation for the next two weeks.)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/kcattx/woohoo.gif

Edited December 11, 2010 by Sandy1

[SamCapote]

Sandy, this is pretty interesting. I followed psfred's advice about using VueScan, and this scan is with default settings. Much more accurate than any of the Epson software settings I wasted an hour trying to get things accurate. I also ordered a couple of IT8 thingies from a guy in Germany to then do a calibration with the scanner. The thumbnail on below (and all images in first & second posts) go to larger images.

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/Inks/Blue8s.jpg

 

To answer your other question/point....my purpose with trying to put a bunch of colors on the same paper with the same pen nib, and all scanned at same settings was to eliminate the color portrayals that vary widely, often because of scanner quality and settings. These are not a substitute for the complete individual ink reviews....rather just a different slice at the apple.

Edited December 11, 2010 by SamCapote

[dcwaites]

This last lot looks much more accurate. Of the inks I have (Visconti, Asa Gao, Eclat de Saphir) in your batch, they look pretty much like what I get when using those inks.

 

OTOH I don't think it is possible to give an absolute impression of the colour of a written ink, because of all the variations in technology between thee and me. However, you can give an accurate impression of the differences between colours, so we can see that Eclat de Saphir is more purple than Visconti Blue, and Everflo True Blue is the same hue, but a lighter version of, Penman Sapphire.

[fjf]

Looks like the visconti blue is the most penman sapphire and baystate blue-like of them all. Is this the case in real life?. If so, that's the one I want to get.

[SamCapote]

Looks like the visconti blue is the most penman sapphire and baystate blue-like of them all. Is this the case in real life?. If so, that's the one I want to get.

 

Among this list of blues, yes it is the closest....but there are more blues to go before I sleep...blues to go before I sleep.

[Lefthand_Smudge]

Wow this is really really good. Shows me just how nice BSB actually is. Next step for me is to go and get some, the step after is to find a pen to put it in, that won't blow up.

[fjf]

And among others you know?. I've been looking for a baystate-like blue that can be used in pens with a color other than blue, because of the staining problem. A well behaved ink that does not look lifeless when dry, the common problem of most dye-based inks, and also of the noodlers pigmented inks I've seen (except maybe the kung-te cheng, but I cannot find that one for purchase). From what I've seen recently, maybe the visconti blue, the asa-gao and some of the private reserve inks can be the answer.

 

Looks like the visconti blue is the most penman sapphire and baystate blue-like of them all. Is this the case in real life?. If so, that's the one I want to get.

 

Among this list of blues, yes it is the closest....but there are more blues to go before I sleep...blues to go before I sleep.

Edited December 12, 2010 by fjf

[Truppi327]

Wow this is really really good. Shows me just how nice BSB actually is. Next step for me is to go and get some, the step after is to find a pen to put it in, that won't blow up.

 

Get a Platinum Preppy 03 and convert it to an eyedropper with silicone grease and an o-ring. Use nothing but BSB in it and you will have a pen that won't blow up and will write reliably and nice.

 

Incidentally you can get all the supplies you need for this operation from Goulet Pens for around $25 shipped I think*. Pen, ink, o-rings, silicone. BAM!

 

I'm a very satisfied customer and blog reader.

 

*Edited to add: Remember the fpn coupon code.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Truppi327

[Truppi327]

And among others you know?. I've been looking for a baystate-like blue that can be used in pens with a color other than blue, because of the staining problem. A well behaved ink that does not look lifeless when dry, the common problem of most dye-based inks, and also of the noodlers pigmented inks I've seen (except maybe the kung-te cheng, but I cannot find that one for purchase).

 

I'm pretty sure Kung Te-cheng isn't a pigmented ink, which would mak it unsafe for fountain pen use I believe. I don't think Noodler's makes pigmented inks.

[fjf]

I may be wrong, but I believe all bulletproofs are pigment inks.

[Truppi327]

I may be wrong, but I believe all bulletproofs are pigment inks.

That can't be true because then they wouldn't be safe for fountain pens. Standard Noodler's Black is bulletproof and is most definitely a dye based ink.

[SamCapote]

I may be wrong, but I believe all bulletproofs are pigment inks.

 

With respect, and to nip comments like this in the bud, your belief is absolutely wrong.

 

There is much misinformation thrown out about Noodler inks, as they are the only ones using the "bulletproof" designation.

 

There is also a misunderstanding 'bandied about' that if any ink develops a sediment over time, then it is a pigment containing ink, which is also incorrect as an absolute rule.

[fjf]

Well, (also with respect) then, please, inform me. Do you know the composition of those inks?. I have a bottle of britannia blue waves, and it certainly looks nothing like a soluble dye ink. It looks like paint. If you try to mix them, you get very odd results (unlike it happens with dyes). I use them anyway, being careful not to let it dry on my nibs, because I appreciate their properties. I see nothing wrong with pigments. Sailor and Platinum have new blue pigment-inks that I want to try.

 

You comments sound like I am guilty of defamation. Go to: http://www.richardsp...f/care/inks.htm and you can read: "The highest-maintenance inks of all, in my experience, are Noodler's "bulletproof" colors. These inks, although their dyes are in solution, contain suspended particulate matter (the stuff that makes the ink bond chemically with the paper), and they can sometimes have flow and clogging issues". Dont know want you think, but "suspended particulate matter" sounds a lot like pigment. Even if it is not, the consequences seem the same.

 

In any case, I dont want to start an argument here. As I said, I like those inks and I use them. They work very well.

Edited December 13, 2010 by fjf

[SamCapote]

Well, (also with respect) then, please, inform me. Do you know the composition of those inks?. I have a bottle of britannia blue waves, and it certainly looks nothing like a soluble dye ink. It looks like paint. If you try to mix them, you get very odd results (unlike it happens with dyes). I use them anyway, being careful not to let it dry on my nibs, because I appreciate their properties. I see nothing wrong with pigments. Sailor and Platinum have new blue pigment-inks that I want to try.

 

You comments sound like I am guilty of defamation. Go to: http://www.richardsp...f/care/inks.htm and you can read: "The highest-maintenance inks of all, in my experience, are Noodler's "bulletproof" colors. These inks, although their dyes are in solution, contain suspended particulate matter (the stuff that makes the ink bond chemically with the paper), and they can sometimes have flow and clogging issues". Dont know want you think, but "suspended particulate matter" sounds a lot like pigment. Even if it is not, the consequences seem the same.

 

My issue was your universal statement "believing all bulletproofs are pigment inks." I took issue because this thread has nothing to do with the subject of bulletproof inks, or your taking it in an inaccurate direction of saying (Noodlers) bulletproof are all pigmented inks. It is wrong, and doesn't belong in this thread comparing blues.

 

Let me just say that I have had many many conversations with Nathan Tardif on the phone about this exact subject, with other ink and pen experts, why some of his inks (& others) develop sediment over time, what is written on Richard's website, why some do not mix well, and have done my own testing and research, so I am confident in what I said. Richard does not know what is in proprietary ink formulas, and I refer you again to my previous post with the link showing sediment in some of the Diamine (Herbin, Omas, & a number of others) that he regards as top rated inks. You also need to read his outlined box statement carefully to see what is said. I would be very surprised Richard has used every single bulletproof ink, or is speaking in more general terms. Being unable to mix two inks well is not evidence of pigments. There are many other chemicals, pH variations and interactions going on. You have to evaluate each ink separately. I have never used Britania Blue Waves, so I cannot comment on it. Obviously there are some inks like Waterman that behave well, and are regarded highly.

[fjf]

Dang! Double post!

Edited December 13, 2010 by fjf

[fjf]

I dont see the issue. I love Noodlers bulletproofs. I use them.

 

Going back to your blues comparison, what's the most baystate-like blue you know?. I'd love to find a vivid, well behaved blue ink to use everyday.