Sailor Fountain Pens - Are The Nibs The Same?

[redryder]

Hi guys, I'm thoroughly confused about all the different sailor pens.

 

In terms of smoothness and ink flow, are the nibs the same?

 

• 1911 Standard Series
  
• 1911 Classic Series
  
• Sapporo
  
• Professional Gear
  
• Procolor
  
• Profit
  

 

I know the price difference is due to stainless steel nibs vs gold, but really do these pens feel the same when writing? I currently have a Sapporo Medium, and am looking to buy a Fine. The price of a 1911 classic series is almost double of the 1911 standard series, which is the same price as the Sapporo series. The Pro-colors are also about half the price of a Sapporo.

[freewheelingvagabond]

I can only tell you that there's not much difference in terms of performance between the 14k gold nibs on the Sailor Sapporos, and the 21k gold nibs on the 1911 Classic series and/or the Professional Gear. In fact, some members here prefer the 14k nib I think, as far as my recollection of the discussions generated in some earlier threads. The 1911 standard series probably has the same nibs as those on the Sapporo. I'm sorry, I can't tell you anything about the Procolor or the Profit.

 

 

Regards,

Anindya.

[gary-c]

I think both Profit and 1911 are referred to the same model and shape.

 

Both 1911 Classic Series and Professional Gear are using longer 21k nib but shorter than KOP. 1911 Classic is also known as 1911 Large Series and Professional Gear is known as Professional Gear Standard. These pens have more flex due to the longer nib. The is also Professional Gear KOP same as 1911 KOP with much longer nib.

 

http://www.sailor.co.jp/EXPORT/king_of_pens/images/hikaku_pen.jpg

 

http://www.sailor.co.jp/EXPORT/1911/images/hikaku_pen.jpg

 

http://www.sailor.co.jp/EXPORT/professional_g/images/hikaku_1.jpg

 

http://www.sailor.co.jp/EXPORT/professional_g/images/hikaku_2.jpg

 

1911 Standard Series has a 21k nib but the nib is shorter than the pen's nib from above.

 

Sapporo has a 14k nib. Sapporo is also known as Professional Gear Slim.

 

Procolor's nib is gold plated.

 

Hope this help.

Edited November 26, 2010 by gary-c

[timbrown]

The sections with the nibs can be swapped within a size, so you cannot swap a "standard" section with a "large" one.

My wife has a 1911 standard with a fine nib, and unlike me writes beautifully. She loves it, and also has a larger one in medium and loves that. She favors the fine for everyday.

[nicholasyeo]

Sailor nibs are generally very good in quality. I do however believe that sometimes these finer nibs

can get scratchy. Another note about 21K gold, I seem to feel that they get bent out of alignment

easier than the 14K. Probably about malleability. :bonk: My two Pro Gears are currently non-functional.

One is too scratchy to write with, the other is just simply terrible. I am having it sent back, hopefully.

[timbrown]

For $40-50 or so Mike Masuyama or Richard Binder could make those nibs really good.

[gary-c]

I have 6 Sailor pens and don't have any issue with them out of the box.

[saskia_madding]

Thank you to this thread - I got a second hand mini with a nib that is TOO FINE for me. I'm going to try buying a slim and seeing if the nibs swap. <3

[inkstainedruth]

I can't be of much help. I only have one Sailor pen -- a Pro Gear Slim with a zoom nib (just because I wanted something a little different). I like it, but I think I may need to use wetter inks in it.

Not sure if the OP is looking to see about swapping nibs between pens, or just looking for a different nib width (or recommendations for or against a specific nib width). Japanese nibs tend to run narrower than their European equivalents, but I have a Pilot Decimo with a Japanese F and it's not too skinny a line for me (I have a lot of vintage pens and my preference is for F nibs).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[minddance]

no, they are not the same. 14k is harder than 21k. But that doesn't mean 21k is for the writer to flex or have line variations by flexing because the nib alignment is very delicate and can lose its alignment easily if not careful.

 

For durability and ability to retain nib alignment and hardness for writing fast, I prefer the 14k.

 

For girth of the section, I like the 21k models.

[Intensity]

I love my 14k EF nib in the small Pro Gear Slim size, but I also want the larger section of standard Pro Gear. This ease of misalignment worries me though, as I'm also looking at EF nibs in the Pro Gear. I wonder if it's a struggle to keep proper alignment for EF nibs in 21K or if having a light touch while writing is sufficient. I tend to not press down on my nibs, unless they are broad cursive italic or flexible type. Maybe I should stick with something like 1911 Standard, as those have 14K nibs but still slightly larger sections vs. Pro Gear Slim.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Intensity

[TassoBarbasso]

Over the years I used two Sailor 14k EF nibs, one 14k M, one 14k zoom, and one 21k EF.

 

The EFs are all excellent: incredibly thin but never scratchy. The 21k one is my current go-to pen for note-taking (the chunky size of the pro gear makes it perfect). The 14k may be trickier to use due to the pens being thinner: they are harder to control.

 

The M nib was ok bit required some tuning. The zoom one is good, and on certain angles even excellent: smooth but with a tactile feel, and deliciously rich in variation. However it lays down so much ink that you can probably use it to write one or two pages max.

[Tom Kellie]

~ After reading through this thread I wrote a few line with the Sailor Shikiori Hisakata Uchimizu F nib on my writing desk.

It writes like a dream! Smooth, lovely feedback, no skipping, fine but not excessively so.

The richly blue, transparent pen stands out among many black pens, not only for its color, but for its reliable nib.

Tom K.

[philhygra]

I have a Sailor Profit 75 coming in from Japan. I bought it for the nib. The pen was quite cheap because of the wear on the carbon body. Some people call the nib as "made by Nagahara" - I assume this refers to design only?

[rogerico]

For $40-50 or so Mike Masuyama or Richard Binder could make those nibs really good.

 

 

With my King of Pen 8 nib Mike Masuyama did a great job five yers ago and by now this is my best nib, unbeatable.

[Intensity]

I now have both, the smaller 14K Sailor EF nib and the larger 21K Sailor EF nib. They write an approximately similar line width which is highly dependent on wetness and spread of inks used in their respective pens, and both are absolutely perfect. There is a difference in how they feel in writing. The 21K nib feels much softer. I don't mean that it's springy, it's just that it feels to have more yield and dampening. In comparison, the 14K EF is very rigid but not in a harsh way that a thick steel nib can feel rigid. I really like both and marvel at their perfect grinds: pleasant feedback and smoothness, precise and crisp lines on paper. The smaller 14K EF feels more like a precision instrument for small size writing and sketching. Currently have it inked up with KWZ IG Green Gold, and it's sufficiently dry to result in beautiful medium-light olive green with super fine lines. The larger 21K EF is luxurious for writing, currently inked up with KWZ Walk Over Vistula.

. . .

 

I should add that these are all delicate instruments, not to be approached like hardy Lamy Safari ball-tipping steel nibs and the like. They require a delicate hand to maintain fine lines and not wear out the tipping or misalign the tines. The same goes for most of my custom cursive italic grinds on various gold-nibbed pens, even by well-known and respected nibmeisters. The custom grinds are very precise, and gold alloys are generally soft, so one has to learn to be careful with pen orientation and pressure. It's a nuanced approach that's developed gradually, as first those who come from ballpoint pens tend to just mash their fountain pen into paper (like my significant other) and are best served with the aforementioned Lamy Safari or Jinhao pens with #6 nibs. Sailor's fine and extra fine nibs are safe for those who have learned to write more under the weight of the pen, just applying ink to the surface of the paper without pressing in.

 

I have Zebra Sarasa gel pens, and I would say my EF Sailors write approximately similar line width to Sarasa refills on non-absorbent textured paper, like Fabriano Bioprima. I was just thinking that if one wants the look of fountain pen ink in extra fine Japanese nibs, they might be better served by cheap Zebra Sarasa pens from their "vintage" colors series. Waterproof and I think archival, fade-resistant, easy to replace, no risk of misalignment of tines.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Intensity

[Olya]

I have a Sailor Profit 75 coming in from Japan. I bought it for the nib. The pen was quite cheap because of the wear on the carbon body. Some people call the nib as "made by Nagahara" - I assume this refers to design only?

No, it refers to the nibmeister, who invented the particular tipping style for the nib and likely ground it himself, he was employed in-house by Sailor. Nagahara nibs command a premium price compared to the regular nibs. They are also marked "N", eg a medium would then be "N M" instead of the regular marking "H-M" (or maybe even "N H-M", not sure, but there should be an "N" for Nagahara; "H" btw stands for "hard", there used to be "S" for soft, but those aren't made regularly anymore, only on some special nibs, which again command a premium, but the soft nibs are still fairly hard, just as additional FYI).

 

A Nagahara will write a touch broader compared to the standard, eg a Nagahara M is a bit broader than a regular Sailor M.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Olya

[philhygra]

Indeed, yes, but as there are quite a few of these made and there is no N in the nib, I am puzzled by the claim that they actually were made by him. The pen was produced to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the company, I understand.

[aurore]

On 12/11/2019 at 8:25 PM, Olya said:

No, it refers to the nibmeister, who invented the particular tipping style for the nib and likely ground it himself, he was employed in-house by Sailor. Nagahara nibs command a premium price compared to the regular nibs. They are also marked "N", eg a medium would then be "N M" instead of the regular marking "H-M" (or maybe even "N H-M", not sure, but there should be an "N" for Nagahara; "H" btw stands for "hard", there used to be "S" for soft, but those aren't made regularly anymore, only on some special nibs, which again command a premium, but the soft nibs are still fairly hard, just as additional FYI).

 

A Nagahara will write a touch broader compared to the standard, eg a Nagahara M is a bit broader than a regular Sailor M.

While your post is enthusiastic, it is also essentially incorrect, so, with all respect, I would rather (for a future reference) adjust the details.  
Nagahara indeed refers to the nibmeister, in this particular case to nibmeister Nobuyoshi Nagahara (father of nibmeister Yukio Nagahara) who created the "N(aginata)" nibs you were inaccurately referring to. "N" in case of these nibs means "Naginata", not Nagahara, which refers to an old weapon these special nibs somewhat remind in shape (or at least some of them do). These nibs are completely different in shape of the tipping (comparing to Western nibs) and some of them have some other special design features, as well shown in this video: 
Sailor Special Nibs (Naginata)

The most common kind of these nibs is Naginata Togi. And indeed for example Naginata Togi Medium (always marked as "NM" - just NM, there is no "H" or "S" and never was, none at all - it would actually make no sense to create a soft Naginata nib) writes - in a standard position - a bit broader than H-M, but above all it writes according to the angle you are holding the pen - eventually you can write from (roughly) F to B+ with NM. That said these nibs were mainly created for Japanese/Chinese writing. 

Indeed these nibs are much more expensive than standard Sailor nibs. 
Sailor "S" nibs ("soft" as the opposite to "H" - "hard") had existed roughly till early 2000s, they are quite rare and not only they are no longer made regularly, they are actually no longer made at all. Soft "S" nibs in case of 1911L (the larger of the 1911 pens, more or less a copy of MB 146 - at least in terms of size and shape), those btw were made only with 14ct gold, are reasonably soft and often semi-flex. That said early 1911L nibs (made since 1981 - since the 70th anniversary of the company), which were neither marked "H" or "S", nor for the size (just like MB nibs they were based on), are also often quite a lot springy and they were always made with 14ct gold (18ct and 21ct came much later, while 14ct is now discontinued for 1911L). And the shape of the tipping grind reminds MB 146 from 70s. Great nibs indeed. 

What you call a tipping style is rather a grind style, however some of Naginata nibs indeed have a very special tipping, for instance Naginata Cross Concord has got a tipping above the normal tipping.

As for the 75th Anniversary nib. It has nothing to do with "N"(aginata) nibs. Naginata nibs had not been created by 1986. It is a very standard nib of the era (a 1911L sort of nib) except for the titanium plating. "Nagahara" the seller was referring to in case of these nibs (btw the anniversary 1986 LE was fairly large - at least 7500 pieces) was a claim that Nagahara san grinded the whole LE himself. These nibs were made with 14ct gold, just like all Sailor 1911L nibs those days, and were marked only for the size (usually M), while some early 1980s Sailor 1911L nibs were not even marked for the size, as mentioned. Some sellers claim Nagahara san grinded all these 75th anniversary nibs - there is no proof, nor any such claim has been made by Sailor company. It might be true or not. Honestly Nagahara san grinded many thousands of nibs during his life, really many thousands, so anything is possible (but not officially claimed). In any case, they are lovely nibs and technically identical to all the other Sailor 1911L nibs of those years.

[mke]

@aurore

👍