Counterfeit Nib ?

[mstone]

"...I haven't found many references to green paint rationing other than the claims made by lucky strike, and given the enormous quantities that the US government burned through I can't believe it was a serious raw materials issue. (On the other hand, the insatiable demand by the Army for all things green may have just bumped up the prices through simple supply & demand.)

 

First, internet retrieved data gives me considerable pause; I would prefer a data source more credible than a website and a couple of liberal newspapers with an agenda.

 

Well, since you've thrown out "liberal newspapers with an agenda" this will be my last reply, as I don't have time for that kind of mindless kneejerk buzzwording (which has no place in any rational discussion, let alone on this forum). If you want to dig up paper accounts, go for it (the lucky strike thing is very well known, has been used as a case study for decades, and it shouldn't be hard to find--just make sure you find a source that doesn't begin and end with lucky strike's own marketing copy).

 

Secondly, almost EVERYTHING was rationed during WWII for one reason or another for civilians and non war related industrial production.

 

I do thank you for that bit of information, I was completely unaware of wartime rationing and this will certainly influence any further thought I give the topic.

 

(FYI- My very own father fought in WWII and my very own mother lived through it as a civilian; so I have received a lot of information from people who experienced it all first-hand- not to mention what I learned as a political science/history major at Franciscan University of Steubenville, {and then later, Ohio University}. Always remember, those who do not know their non-revisionist history are doomed to repeat it ).

 

Anyone who has to deal with first hand accounts will tell you that you need to take them with a grain of salt. It's very hard to separate reality from propaganda, from misconceptions, and from rumor. Ask a cop about eyewitness testimony, for example. I also have a wealth of family lore, and while all of it is good stories, I am well aware that some of it is simply not true (based on cross checking historical archives, conflicting accounts from various family members, etc.) Quite often people cling to the fictions the hardest, because they make the best stories. (E.g.: which is a better storyline: "lucky strike changed their package to save material for the war effort" or "lucky strike found that market research thought their old label was ugly and changed it". I know I certainly wouldn't be telling my grandkids stories about the exciting world of market research. )

 

At any rate, I already agreed that maybe rationing was a factor. I just caution against making a connection that isn't supported by any concrete data, as that's how idle speculation turns into misinformation. (Yes rationing could have been a factor, as could many other things, so it's better to say "we have no idea why they changed the color" rather than "it must have been rationing"--unless you find some actual documentation, in which case "bravo"!) So I guess there's nothing left to argue about.

[kathleen]

My parents also lived through WWII many changes occurred in civilian life and manufacturing to support the needs of the military. My grandmother went from manufacturing toy cap pistols at Kilgore's in Columbus, Ohio, to manufacturing real ammunitions. My mother was a high school student helping in scrap metal drives and as Sean has said, many, many things were scarce and/or rationed.

Edited January 18, 2011 by kathleen

[corniche]

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED! It was about nibs!

 

Hello Kathleen,

 

For your sake my friend, I'll hold my tongue. It isn't going to be easy, but I'll do it for you "Dorothy."

 

All the best,

 

Sean

aka, The Cowardly Lion of Estie-Land

[welch]

The main question remains: who faked Esterbrook nibs? When? Why? Was there an "Easterbook" pen, or do we just think we saw one?

 

I recall that other companies made Esterbrook-compatible nibs, but why call yourself "Easterbook"?

 

This is where I grumble that some of the best materials for social history dissapear when a company goes out of business and dumps its files. I wonder if Venus Pencil kept the Esterbrook files, and if they all went to Sanford...

[kathleen]

The main question remains: who faked Esterbrook nibs? When? Why? Was there an "Easterbook" pen, or do we just think we saw one?

 

I recall that other companies made Esterbrook-compatible nibs, but why call yourself "Easterbook"?

 

This is where I grumble that some of the best materials for social history dissapear when a company goes out of business and dumps its files. I wonder if Venus Pencil kept the Esterbrook files, and if they all went to Sanford...

 

Oh, yes the questions linger, Who? When? Why? It is a enigma wrapped in a conundrum and I am anxious for someone to find another one like it; I can not think this would have been a one-of-a-kind. If someone bothered to make one of these, they surely bothered to make hundreds. The problem may just be that they were so inferior to true Esterbrook nibs, they were soon thrown into a waste bin and an authentic Esterbrook nib was purchased to replace the impostor.

Edited January 21, 2011 by kathleen

[corniche]

This is where I grumble that some of the best materials for social history dissapear when a company goes out of business and dumps its files. I wonder if Venus Pencil kept the Esterbrook files, and if they all went to Sanford...

 

Greetings Welch, et al,

 

I know just what you mean John, I wish there was a national archive for defunct company records myself. However, the problem is there are very, very few actual defunct companies; just as you indicate, companies are usually absorbed into other ones and all the old company’s records become the proprietary information for the new company. The useful data is gleaned off and the rest is purged; the new, (existing), company would rather burn it than share it, just on the slight chance that what was garbage to them would be treasure to a competitor. This is why there are so many deep, dark secrets in Corporate America.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited January 22, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[Aysedasi]

Very interesting thread - hijack n'all!

[Bo Bo Olson]

I read back in the BC*...much less before websites. That Lucky had no need to change from green to read.

As a kid I'd been familiar with the Lucky goes to war advertisement in it seemed to be in some of the history of the time.

In the early '70's or early 80's I read other wise.

 

*BC either Before Color TV or Before Computers....

[pen2paper]

http://www.officemuseum.com/Pens.htm

hold on a minute.. is this significant? was the Easterbrook Steel Pen Manufacturing Compamy of Camden, New Jersey, still in business? date of 1866.

oops must have been an advertising typo.

Edited January 22, 2011 by pen2paper

[PDW]

"I recall that other companies made Esterbrook-compatible nibs". I know about Osmiroid, but who else's products should I be looking for?

 

And presumably if others made nibs, did they also Estie-compatible pens?

[Gloucesterman]

Venus also made Esterbrook replacement nibs. I bought one on fleabay for $6.50 including the shipping. Installed it today and it seems to work fine (yes it is a fine too). Time will tell if there are any snafus lurking in it's future.

 

I installed it in an Esterbrook M2 Aerometric pen I just fixed.

-S-

[MxMJ]

Venus also made Esterbrook replacement nibs. I bought one on fleabay for $6.50 including the shipping. Installed it today and it seems to work fine (yes it is a fine too). Time will tell if there are any snafus lurking in it's future.

 

I installed it in an Esterbrook M2 Aerometric pen I just fixed.

-S-

Venus bought out Esterbrook and continued to make nibs for a time. As far as I know they only made 'Fine' 'Medium' and 'Broad' though. The numbering system (and with it, the wide variety of choices) was discontinued.

[pajaro]

"EASTERBOOK." In runs of millions you have errors, misimpressions and humor on the part of the staff.

 

Oh, and DEFCON 5 would have been a relaxation of normal for us missile guys (Titan II ICBM, DMAFB).

 

Now, DEFCON 3 got our attention once upon a time.

 

EASTERBOOK is an interesting collectible. Some people have whole collections of stamps, for example, that concentrate on fakes, counterfeits and Cinderellas (Fantasy stamps). A collection of such pens would be an interesting and useful reference. If you faked or counterfeited Esterbrook stuff, you would have to make a whole lot of it to make a profit.

 

Interesting old thread.

[MaddyMarcel]

Fascinating find and thread. I did a quick Google, as I'm sure many of you - no obvious answers (nor 5 pages deep answers).

 

One active etsy listing for a box of "Easterbrook" relief nibs; box is shown, and it obviously says Esterbrook.

 

Cue new discussion on how nobody can read cursive anymore ...

[antoniosz]

Thanks for this thread!