Ink Fades Out

[Lloyd]

Regarding Herbin: My Rose Cyclamen would fade at astonishing rates if left in room light.

[BayBee]

Regarding Herbin: My Rose Cyclamen would fade at astonishing rates if left in room light.

I suspect that Herbins are not designed to last forever, since they don't have much color pigments in them in the first place.

Thanks Lloyd, I love your avatar.

[BayBee]

Thank you for the link, cubic archon! It's very helpful.

[piper10]

I had several papers that contained sample writing from different colors of inks. The papers got shuffled around on my cluttered desk for 2 or 3 months and were not in direct sunlight. When next I looked at them, I was surprised to see that the Diamine Pink had almost totally disappeared!

[BayBee]

I had several papers that contained sample writing from different colors of inks. The papers got shuffled around on my cluttered desk for 2 or 3 months and were not in direct sunlight. When next I looked at them, I was surprised to see that the Diamine Pink had almost totally disappeared!

 

Yes! Fading inks do exist. It's not that the paper I use is full of acid or something (or I am losing my mind).

 

Thank you, piper, it makes me feel much better. I am not alone to observe such mysterious disappearance.

 

It might make a good practical joke. To write or draw something with a disappearing ink, so with time the phrase or drawing will change its meaning or shape correspondingly.

[cubic archon]

I taped a sample of some inks to an east-facing window a little over two weeks ago, which I've just taken another look at, and I was surprised to find that the Lamy Blue-Black (bottled, so it's supposed to have iron gall components) has faded really drastically. It's still visible, just, but it's very faint.

[BayBee]

Thank you, cubic archon! It's a very valuable observation, since black inks are generally more fade-resistant than others. I thought that blue-black inks would be tough too.

[pharmacist]

Thank you, cubic archon! It's a very valuable observation, since black inks are generally more fade-resistant than others. I thought that blue-black inks would be tough too.

 

The problem with modern blue-black iron gall inks they contain only gallic acid, which does forms a not so stable ferricgallate pigment compared to the much more stable ferricgallotannate in the original government document ink (Urkundentinte). The reason for choosing only gallic acid as the base for the ink is the fact that ferrous gallate is much more stable over time and requires considerably less acid to stabilise the ink. I have reproduced this old government document writing ink and after now more than two months of using this in on a irregular base, the ink behaves remarkedly well in my 3 test fountain pens. No clogging and immediately ink flow when the point touches the paper surface. Only after a week of non usage I have to scratch a few times over the paper to have the ink flow back again, and then the ink line is considerably darker (almost black) due to partial oxidation, but the ink flow soon restores to its usual dark blue colour. I find the ink flows much better than Lamy blue-black which is a very dry ink compared to my "Urkundentinte" iron gall ink, which flows much better even after a week of non-usage. With Lamy blue-black I have to press the piston of the converter to push some ink through the ink mechanism to free the clog.

[BayBee]

 

 

The problem with modern blue-black iron gall inks they contain only gallic acid, which does forms a not so stable ferricgallate pigment compared to the much more stable ferricgallotannate in the original government document ink (Urkundentinte)...

 

I have reproduced this old government document writing ink and after now more than two months of using this in on a irregular base, the ink behaves remarkedly well in my 3 test fountain pens...

 

I find the ink flows much better than Lamy blue-black which is a very dry ink compared to my "Urkundentinte" iron gall ink, which flows much better even after a week of non-usage...

 

That's remarkable! You reproduced "Urkundentinte"!

 

Is there a recipie that we can use or it's a trade secret?

[pharmacist]

 

 

The problem with modern blue-black iron gall inks they contain only gallic acid, which does forms a not so stable ferricgallate pigment compared to the much more stable ferricgallotannate in the original government document ink (Urkundentinte)...

 

I have reproduced this old government document writing ink and after now more than two months of using this in on a irregular base, the ink behaves remarkedly well in my 3 test fountain pens...

 

I find the ink flows much better than Lamy blue-black which is a very dry ink compared to my "Urkundentinte" iron gall ink, which flows much better even after a week of non-usage...

 

That's remarkable! You reproduced "Urkundentinte"!

 

Is there a recipie that we can use or it's a trade secret?

 

Nothing secret about it. Just have a look at the last page of the sticky of home brewed inks. The problem is that most people won't be able to get the chemicals, because gallic acid is the base of producing LSD and depending on the territory you will need a special license to get it. I use Lamy black ink (about 30-50 ml per 500 ml of total ink) as the dye base, so to make the writing visible, because the initial ink is almost colourless and this will give the ink body. It is very difficult to get a extreme pure anilin blue, because any impurities (not completely sulfonated anilin blue) will cause a formation of sediment in a few days time. When the ink is well formulated the ink will keep for many years without depositing a sediment or sludge on the bottom. The secret is to get the purest chemicals (pH. Eur quality) to be successfull.

 

Unlike most commercial iron gall inks, the Urkundentinte formula is totally waterproof and even the dye component is fixed upon the paper structure along with the ferricgallotannate pigment.

[BayBee]

That's the most comprehensive description related to home ink production I ever read! Thank you very much, pharmasist!

 

 

The problem is that most people won't be able to get the chemicals, because gallic acid is the base of producing LSD and depending on the territory you will need a special license to get it...

 

Considering that I am already accused of sniffing BSB and getting high on it, that indeed would be a risky enterprize...

Edited August 29, 2010 by BayBee

[pharmacist]

Maybe I should sell this ink, with the following german text on the label:

 

Apotheker's Urkundentinte für Füllfederhalter

Eisengallustinte Categorie I

Ausserordentlich dünnflüssig

 

Pharmacist's Document fountain pen ink

premium quality iron gall ink

extra-ordinary limpid

 

Is 6 euro for a bottle of 30 ml a good price ?

[BayBee]

Maybe I should sell this ink, with the following german text on the label:

 

Apotheker's Urkundentinte für Füllfederhalter

Eisengallustinte Categorie I

Ausserordentlich dünnflüssig

 

Pharmacist's Document fountain pen ink

premium quality iron gall ink

extra-ordinary limpid

 

Is 6 euro for a bottle of 30 ml a good price ?

 

Definitely!

[nxn96]

I seem to recall that when Parker was developing Quink, they discovered that ink tended to dry more by absorption into the paper than evaporation when exposed. Assuming I've got that right, fading is probably more common when you're using "harder" papers that resist absorption versus "softer" papers that will absorb more of the ink before it dries. Think about how an index card reacts to fountain pen ink vs. a piece of stationery with high cotton fiber content.

[wallylynn]

Maybe I should sell this ink, with the following german text on the label:

 

Apotheker's Urkundentinte für Füllfederhalter

Eisengallustinte Categorie I

Ausserordentlich dünnflüssig

 

Pharmacist's Document fountain pen ink

premium quality iron gall ink

extra-ordinary limpid

 

Is 6 euro for a bottle of 30 ml a good price ?

6 euro ~ 7.5USD. I'd buy it. I'm trying to finish up my bottle of Lamy B-B(50ml). It'd be cool to have a nearly transparent ink in my Vista that writes black.

Shipping and handling usually kills the deal unfortunately.

[BayBee]

I seem to recall that when Parker was developing Quink, they discovered that ink tended to dry more by absorption into the paper than evaporation when exposed. Assuming I've got that right, fading is probably more common when you're using "harder" papers that resist absorption versus "softer" papers that will absorb more of the ink before it dries. Think about how an index card reacts to fountain pen ink vs. a piece of stationery with high cotton fiber content.

 

Thank you, nx96!

 

That's a very interesting observation. You have introduced a new parameter here - not only a possibility of chemical reaction between ink and paper, but also the way it physically penetrates it.