Noodler's Ink & Chemical Corrosion

[jmj75]

I've read several of the threads surrounding Noodler's inks and their ability to damage and clog feeds, e.g. Baystate Blue vs. Lamy Safari feeds. My own story involves Baystate Blue in a Lamy 2000. After ~two weeks of use the pen literally fell apart. The metal section housing the feed and nib just "fell off". It looked like the plastic part that screws into the body had been corroded. I had owned the pen for several years and always carried it in a hard leather case, so I am certain it was the ink that caused the damage. Recently I say this post on Greg Minuskin's bolg http://gregminuskin.com/?p=2426 illustrating the chemical corrosion of a feed by Noodler's ink. The pictures are quite shocking.

 

Noodler's has frequently used it's neutral pH as a marketing tool, I seem to remember there being a demonstration on the Noodler's web-page illustrating various corrosive inks eating Aluminium foil while Noodler's does not. On the whole I was satisfied with Noodler's until my Lamy 2000 incident. I now rarely use Noodler's ink and do so with caution (BSB is a color I could not move away from even after my Lamy 2000 bit the dust).

 

I am curious if anyone else has any troubles with Noodler's ink, e.g. clogging and chemical corrosion. If for any reason to have a database in a thread as to what pens (brands/plastics) and ink combinations are likely to result in possible damage.

 

As I said, I still use BSB, cautiously, in a Pelikan M250 . I was motivated to give it a try after reading a post from an FPN member who used it in her white tortoise shell Pelikan with no problems.

 

I'd like to emphasize that I am not looking to start a thread "bash or defend Noodler's ink". I am more interested in people sharing their experiences with combinations that have resulted in damaged pens.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Once bitten, twice shy.

 

I Don't have any BSB, nor will I ever buy it. Some folks say....used it for years every thing ok....others have something like your story.

It's cheaper for me to learn from others.

 

Why are you still using it?

 

Can't you find some other glow in the dark ink, that don't eat pens at midnight.

[jniforat]

I've read several of the threads surrounding Noodler's inks and their ability to damage and clog feeds, e.g. Baystate Blue vs. Lamy Safari feeds. My own story involves Baystate Blue in a Lamy 2000. After ~two weeks of use the pen literally fell apart. The metal section housing the feed and nib just "fell off". It looked like the plastic part that screws into the body had been corroded. I had owned the pen for several years and always carried it in a hard leather case, so I am certain it was the ink that caused the damage. Recently I say this post on Greg Minuskin's bolg http://gregminuskin.com/?p=2426 illustrating the chemical corrosion of a feed by Noodler's ink. The pictures are quite shocking.

 

Noodler's has frequently used it's neutral pH as a marketing tool, I seem to remember there being a demonstration on the Noodler's web-page illustrating various corrosive inks eating Aluminium foil while Noodler's does not. On the whole I was satisfied with Noodler's until my Lamy 2000 incident. I now rarely use Noodler's ink and do so with caution (BSB is a color I could not move away from even after my Lamy 2000 bit the dust).

 

I am curious if anyone else has any troubles with Noodler's ink, e.g. clogging and chemical corrosion. If for any reason to have a database in a thread as to what pens (brands/plastics) and ink combinations are likely to result in possible damage.

 

As I said, I still use BSB, cautiously, in a Pelikan M250 . I was motivated to give it a try after reading a post from an FPN member who used it in her white tortoise shell Pelikan with no problems.

 

I'd like to emphasize that I am not looking to start a thread "bash or defend Noodler's ink". I am more interested in people sharing their experiences with combinations that have resulted in damaged pens.

 

bahaha, i think rita did that. right?

 

anyways, I have some BSB (only used about three refills worth in three pens, and those pens are no longer "alive", as it were. so, no it sits with no use, and that makes me happy.

[Silvermink]

Can't you find some other glow in the dark ink, that don't eat pens at midnight.

 

There just isn't another blue as vibrant as BSB. Or, at least, I've never seen one, and I've seen a lot of blue inks.

[jmj75]

 

Why are you still using it?

 

Can't you find some other glow in the dark ink, that don't eat pens at midnight.

 

 

I still use it by personal choice. I find it to be a great color for taking notes. It may or may not damage my Pelikan, and that's a risk I am willing to take. If it fails in the future, then I'll stop using BSB.

 

Initially, I did not suspect BSB as the culprit in damaging my Lamy 2000. In fact several threads have been posted discussing cracks that develop on some Lamy 2000 near the nib section. I based my suspicion of BSB on most of the threads I've read regarding its ability to damage some materials. In my original post I say that I am "certain" that BSB was the cause. It may be more accurate to say I am "suspicious that BSB was likely the cause". I should also add that this occurred shortly after BSB came out, at which time there weren't post discussing damage other than staining (that I was aware of).

 

In any case, I am curious to hear other instances of pen/feed damage, perhaps with pictures.

[pajaro]

Noodler's Luxury Blue killed a couple cheap modern pens of mine. I'd never use Noodler's in any vintage pen, not one that I liked anyway. YMMV.

How did it kill them?

 

- the solvents melted the plastic feed

 

So the ink worked in pens owned by many many other people.... you put it in "a couple cheap modern pens" and the feeds melt...

Of course the ink (which has not harmed any other pens that we know of) HAS TO BE the culprit and not the cheap feeds on the cheap pens...

When BSB was blamed for melting Lamy feeds, Lamy ADMITTED to a problem with the feeds and changed the material they were made from

 

The above quote is from a post in the Parker forum, https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/161951-is-noodlers-bad-for-my-p51/

 

It might have relevance to your issue. I am not trying to start anything here, but you might read this topic. Clearly the topic of any ink being bad for pens is going to get people worked up. There is money at stake. The topic tends to upset me until I remember that I have used a lot of inks in my pens in over 50 years of using fountain pens, and never yet had one destroyed as yours were.

 

I am beginning to regret finding this network. Ignorance is bliss, sometimes.

[jmj75]

 

The above quote is from a post in the Parker forum, http://www.fountainp...bad-for-my-p51/

 

It might have relevance to your issue. I am not trying to start anything here, but you might read this topic. Clearly the topic of any ink being bad for pens is going to get people worked up. There is money at stake. The topic tends to upset me until I remember that I have used a lot of inks in my pens in over 50 years of using fountain pens, and never yet had one destroyed as yours were.

 

I am beginning to regret finding this network. Ignorance is bliss, sometimes.

 

Point taken, I only posted my original query after reading the post on Minuskin's blog, i.e. his remark "I can only go by my years of experience with this ink (Noodler's) in that it is quite caustic to pens, at least the pens I have dealt with." I was curious to hear what sorts of issues other's have had with respect to corrosion.

 

I see your point on how these kinds of topics can get people worked up. I am more interested in comments on the kinds of damage people have encountered.

 

If it makes for a more neutral thread, then I'd suggest not limiting the discussion to Noodler's inks.

[pajaro]

At this point, this thread is pretty neutral. I did see the reference to Lamys in the Parker thread, so quoted it for you. Maybe the manufacturer will do something for you.

 

I don't know about including other inks. Some of the Montblanc folks got me scared of MB blue-black, an issue that the iron gall, probably a wetting agent, would corrode pens. I used this ink since I bought my first Montblanc in 1983. I almost drained my Parkers and Montblancs that had blue-black in them, then said to myself, "Wait a minute. Remember the Carter's red?" The Carter's red apparently got into one of my 51s years ago, and started to turn up recently when I flushed the pen. Whatever. No damage. It just got dried up in the pen in the 70s. It still comes out when I flush the pen.

 

I sympathize with you about the pen. I would be really angry with the ink maker and the pen manufacturer both. I think they all should test their products--test pens with all available inks. There might be some real liability issues. What if you had an expensive limited edition pen destroyed by an ink. Lawsuit. Class action lawsuit. It's the manufacturers of pens and inks who should worry, not the pen user.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I've been reading about smoke and fire of BSB, for two years.

Lots of ignorant folks once believed the world flat. No sailors though. They had sea monsters...since killed.

 

BSB is still alive and eating.

 

 

 

Sure I want to try BSB; where do you live? I'll use your pen, if you don't mind. Mine cost me money. Yours didn't cost me money. :embarrassed_smile:

[freehand]

Has anyone tested the pH of Noodler's Bay State Blue? That seems like the obvious next step.

[tonybelding]

Recently I say this post on Greg Minuskin's bolg http://gregminuskin.com/?p=2426 illustrating the chemical corrosion of a feed by Noodler's ink. The pictures are quite shocking.

 

They are. However, all he seems to know about the ink is that his client told him it was some kind of Noodler's, but apparently didn't say which ink. That's pretty unhelpful, since Noodler's inks vary a lot in their formulas and characteristics. It would be great if he could find out which ink that was and pass the info on to Nathan Tardiff.

 

 

Noodler's has frequently used it's neutral pH as a marketing tool,

 

Most Noodler's is pH neutral, but BSB is not advertised as being one of those. It's mildly alkaline with the pH value written on the label: "approx 8 to 9 pH range".

 

 

(BSB is a color I could not move away from even after my Lamy 2000 bit the dust).

 

You mean even though it's the most notorious Noodler's ink, and the only one that's been specifically documented as attacking certain plastics? Not sure I follow the logic there. (But then, I'm not that fond of its color either.)

 

BSB does work quite well in dip pens, and I'm not worried about it melting them.

[RLTodd]

This has been going on a too long and I think it is about time someone said this:

 

Why not get a couple of bottles of Bay State Blue and some glass containers.

 

Apportion out the ink to the containers.

 

Place various types of plastic and metal in the containers.

 

Report back here in 30,60,90, etc...... days.

 

The subject can be talked to death, but until someone is willing to put the effort into somekind of "experiment" it is just going to be a waste of bandwidth.

 

 

There, the ball is in someone elses court.................

[Lloyd]

... the post on Minuskin's blog, i.e. his remark "I can only go by my years of experience with this ink (Noodler's) in that it is quite caustic to pens, at least the pens I have dealt with."

Richard has far more experience with this and he hasn't sent up a warning. With all due respect, Greg hasn't been a restorer for very long...he was a nib repairer and (top notch) watch repairer for far longer.

[jmj75]

Recently I say this post on Greg Minuskin's bolg http://gregminuskin.com/?p=2426 illustrating the chemical corrosion of a feed by Noodler's ink. The pictures are quite shocking.

 

They are. However, all he seems to know about the ink is that his client told him it was some kind of Noodler's, but apparently didn't say which ink. That's pretty unhelpful, since Noodler's inks vary a lot in their formulas and characteristics. It would be great if he could find out which ink that was and pass the info on to Nathan Tardiff.

 

And this the reason I wanted to start this thread. So other's can post their experiences with various Noodler's (or other brand) inks that the believe caused damage. I know we'd probably need a detailed analysis to determine whether or not the ink was to blame, but if there are many stories that correlate a particular combination of pen-ink damage then that would point to a possible link. Which would be beneficial to both the community and the pen/ink manufactures (e.g. the Lamy Safari and BSB issue).

 

That said, I like RLTodd's suggestion

 

 

Noodler's has frequently used it's neutral pH as a marketing tool,

 

Most Noodler's is pH neutral, but BSB is not advertised as being one of those. It's mildly alkaline with the pH value written on the label: "approx 8 to 9 pH range".

 

 

True, but my comment was in regards to Minuskin's post. I've seen a few threads that refer to Noodler's inks causing some problems with feeds. As mentioned, my original post was meant to inquire about Noodler's inks in general. My story happened to deal with BSB.

 

Regarding pH, while true that high a liquid with high pH can damage plastics, there are also other compounds that don't affect pH (or have neutral pH) that can cause damage...

 

 

(BSB is a color I could not move away from even after my Lamy 2000 bit the dust).

 

 

You mean even though it's the most notorious Noodler's ink, and the only one that's been specifically documented as attacking certain plastics? Not sure I follow the logic there. (But then, I'm not that fond of its color either.)

 

Personal choice, I am very fond of the color and am willing to take the risk.

[kwpalzang]

Ooh, that's a paradox. With all due respect, I would suggest considering you take up use of the other colours again. The only Noodler's ink massively reported to cause damage is BSB, as far as I recall. True or not, I'm just saying... The general public consensus would probably be that if you can use BSB, you can most definitely use the other colours without adverse effects. In fact, I would think that most people would either avoid Noodler's altogether if they had your issue (including BSB) or avoid just BSB. It's your choice though, I'm not criticising you at all. As a last note, I would recommend reading into things further if you read a post criticising something, as there are two sides to every story, but not just leave it at that. Use your personal experience too. Remember the famous fountain pen-er's motto: YMMV

[farseer911]

Good God, not another topic about the Bad evils of Noodlers...

 

If it isn't how noodlers is the ______ of ________ or destroyed some small third world country, it is about the new TWSBI being the greatest thing since sliced bread and how it has been rumored to cure hair loss in men....

 

 

Can we move on already there are enough threads about BSB that is should be a null issue....

 

And the TWSBI, well let see how it likes BSB!!!!

 

Then we can merge the annoying topics at least into the same thread!!!

[bassopotamus]

Baystate Blue kills puppies and forgets to put the toilet seat down.

[Truppi327]

Good God, not another topic about the Bad evils of Noodlers...If it isn't how noodlers is the ______ of ________ or destroyed some small third world country, it is about the new TWSBI being the greatest thing since sliced bread and how it has been rumored to cure hair loss in men....Can we move on already there are enough threads about BSB that is should be a null issue....And the TWSBI, well let see how it likes BSB!!!!Then we can merge the annoying topics at least into the same thread!!!

 

Hate to break it to you but it was already covered . BSB was tested in a TWSBI (one of the first from before the presale) and there was no trouble.

 

I wish I knew how to use the search and quote functions better to link you too them.

[tonybelding]

Good God, not another topic about the Bad evils of Noodlers...

 

Hey, don't look at me. . . I started a thread a while back about my multiple experiences with Private Reserve SITB and ink turning to cement -- but somehow it just doesn't stir the emotions that Noodler's does.

 

A while back we had a post that described Waterman ink (it's acidic, apparently) eating on metal parts. . . and everybody yawned, pretty much. It's not interesting when a non-Noodler's ink harms somebody's pen.

[riff raff]

Isn't Noodler's a somewhat popular ink? You'd think that pens would be dropping like flies...

 

And yet, that doesn't seem to happening. Odd...