Double Feed or Over Feed Pens

March 4, 2005

As the subtitle says, this is a question that is the product of having too much time on my hands...

In recent corresponce with Don Tendick about Century pens, he suggested that Century was selling double feed pens perhaps as late as 1920. Though 1920 is a bit uncertain, I have a copy of a billhead from 1915 in which Century still proudly proclaims "double feed pens" right under the name of the company. I was very surprised by this date - it is much later than I would have ever thought that anyone was selling anything other than under fed pens.

So, I was just wondering if anyone knew of an other pen makers who were still selling either over fed or double fed pens anywhere near this late. Does anyone know (even approximately) when Wirt stopped selling over fed pens? I'd love to hear what anyone knows about this topic (of course, since it is just idle curiosity, please don't go to any trouble).

March 4, 2005

As for Wirt, he moved to the underfeed pens in 1903. But I imagine that the older over feed pens would still have been available for quite some time. Wirt sold all of his pens to a Mr. Robins and his partner (Whose name escapes me at the moment) and they inturn had a large network of distributors.

Earlier George K. had asked about the term "Loop Feed". This term was mentioned in the Article that Bloomsburg Historian George Turner was citing in the the thread about Wirt Vrs. Waterman.

In another article that was published in the "Historical and biographical annals of Columbia and Montour Counties, Pennsylvania" contains another reference to a "Loop Feed" This article was published before 1921 when Karl Wirt, Pual's son died. The article states that Wirt's pens have a "Loop Feed" so it is rather safe to assume that they are refering to the common Wirt under vented feed.

I have the article on my website:

http://www.kamakurapens.com/Paul_Wirt/Paul...ompany_bio.html

But to answer your question.... Overfeed pens and over-underfeed were nearly eliminated by the 1910's. 1920 seems very late to find them, except for Japan where the fountain pen market was just getting started and over-underfeed pens would survive until the late 1920's.

Nevertheless I am sure there were dozens of exceptions in the States and Europe and George and Rob will delight in edgucating us on who they were. I sure hope so, this is an interesting subject.

Stay Well

March 4, 2005

Ron:

Your answer is about what I had expected, though I was a bit surprised to read that Wirt stopped producing over fed pens already in 1903 (of course they would have been availible for some time after that). It makes it all the more surprising to me that in 1915 Century was still so proudly proclaiming itself the company of the double feed pen. By the way, thank you for the additional Wirt information - though I have more foci than pens in my collection, I do enjoy learning about Wirt. (In case you were unaware, there is a nice Wirt HR tapercap with VV slip-on clip at eBay which is ending within the next couple of days - wish that I had some money lying about).

Dave

March 4, 2005

Hi Dave,

You're probably aware of the fact that there are some companies that still make overfeeds and/or double feed pens/nibs, like Sailor. Some of Nagahara's nibs have overfeeds.

Also, if I remember correctly, Nathan Tardiff made a double or even triple feed nib a while back, and there is at least one other company that made a pen with double feed not all that long ago. Unfortunately, the name escapes me at the moment...

FWIW, kind regards,

Wim

March 4, 2005

Hi, I have an onoto de la rue pen (english) from 1918-1920 that has an overfeed. i purchased the pen at the washington show from melbourne pens. :blink:

March 4, 2005

Would be nice if someone could post a picture or direct me to one showing the overfeed design - perhaps the Wirt design... Never saw one myself. I would be interested in a picture of the nib itself...

Gerry

March 4, 2005

Gerry:

Take a look at:

http://www.kamakurapens.com/Paul_Wirt/Paul_Wirt_Feeds.html

This is a link to Ron Dutcher's site. If you poke around, you'll find lots of pictures of Wirt pens with the overfeed.

Enjoy,

Dave

March 4, 2005

Thanks Dave. I can't believe I missed the feeds tab, since I browsed the Wirt info on that site before posting...

Saw several whole pen pictures but it was difficult to see the nib and feed details. This reference is very explicit.

Gettin' old I guess (sigh)

Gerry

March 5, 2005

In case you were unaware, there is a nice Wirt HR tapercap with VV slip-on clip at eBay...

Dave, it's not a V.V. slip-on clip. It's an A. K. Watts slip-on clip, patent no. 883,767.

George.

March 5, 2005

Wimg, aunt rebecca, George K, and Rob - I owe you all replies. I'll tackle these in a single post...

Rob:

As always an interesting post. I would like to comment on a couple of aspects. First, what you say (i.e., that manufacturers kept producing double feed pens as uncatalogued and unadvertised items for some time to be sold to the technologically conservative crowd) is certainly plausible. Do you have hard evidence in support of this assertion (e.g. production records, etc.)? Second, the character of Century's continued selling of double feed pens is a bit different. The logo on the billhead is:

" The Century Pen Company.

Manufacturers of

The Century Double-feed Fountain Pen

Whitewater, Wis."

So, in 1915, Century is not carrying some double fed pens as an uncatalogued and unadvertised part of their line, but producing them as a featured item. Though in his Pen World article Fultz described Century as never a market leader, this "logo" puts Century off the back of the pack as far as being a market follower. I would really have to guess that Century was alone in extolling the double-feed pen in 1915.

George:

Thank you for the correction on my ID of the clip - any day that I get to learn something more about pens is a fine day, indeed. I've printed the patent for the Watts clip to add to my references; thank you for taking the time to provide the number.

aunt rebecca:

Thank you for the information on Onoto. My collection is still pretty small (only about 150 pens), and except for two Conway-Stewart pens, I have not ventured into foreign waters. Onoto has piqued my interest of late, so I will try to broaden my collection.

Wimg:

I was acually completely unaware that there are still companies (Sailor) making over feed pens. I have only three modern pens, and I haven't purchased a modern since I bought my first vintage. So, I am just very out of touch with what is going on with modern pens. So, thank you for the pointer.

Sorry to do the bulk reply like this. I love this forum, but i have to say that the set-up of Pentrace makes it quite a bit easier to reply to individual postings. Thank you to all for the information.

Dave

March 5, 2005

Hi Dave,

Just fine with me, the multiple reply. It works, after all .

Anyway, here is a link to a Stylophiles article on a Sailor nib with overfeed, metal overfeed, mind you, with beautiful shots by Bill R. (ok, pleonasm, I realise that ):

Sailor with overfeed

Just scroll down a bit.

You'll find another pic etc. on Jim Mottishaw's site:

Sailor nib page on Jim Mottishaw's site

Scroll to bottom as well.

There was another article, with even more pictures, of all the nibs with overfeeds, but can't find that right now.

Furthermore, but I haven't been able to find it (yet), some company brought out a special edition sometime between now and the last 10 years or so, i think, with a proper over- and underfeed in BHR. I'll find it, I'll find it....

When I do I'll let you know.

Kind regards,

Wim

March 5, 2005

I'm starting to get the picture, thanks all.

The Sailor nib that Wim has shown is then an interesting variation. Since it does not appear to bring ink from the section or resevoir to the nib, but seems to capture some from the nib slit itself and store until needed, may make this a questionable overfeed candidate. See J. Mottishaw's site - he mentions the storage aspect.

Don't know if I have it quite right, but I am making the assumption that to be an overfeed or double feed, that feed must be essentially parallel to the underfeed function, and therefore able to supply the nib (more or less) independently.

Regards

Gerry