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Yes Virginia, there IS a Parker Penman Sapphire substitute;


OcalaFlGuy

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There has been an ongoing off and on thread for about a year or so about any substitute(s) for the discontinued,

hard to find and EXPENSIVE when it is, Parker Penman Sapphire.

 

David, DCWaites, originally came up with a recipe using Noodler's Azure Blue as the main base with bits of PR Tanzanite and Blue Suede. His scans of this recipe next to his original Penman showed In The Scans, to be Dead On.

 

I tried some of that recipe but wasn't happy with how the Noodler's was working with a couple pens of mine and talked some

more with David. We adapted another recipe he had using PR American Blue as the main base with bits of Waterman Green and Quink Blue/Black.

 

While I DO have some original Penman cartridges, they have evaporated some and I just haven't gotten around to precisely reconstituting them to their original strength.

 

In the meantime, Pendleton Brown sent me a micro-vial of The Real Deal from a bottle so thusly at it's original non-evaped strength. (Thanks! PB!)

 

I was lucky enough to have another FPNer send me a full bottle of Parker Quink B/B to work up this recipe from who was

also interested in how the recipe would turn out. I am working on a short thank you letter back to him now.

 

I do not have easy access to a scanner. Perhaps he does and I'll make sure he sees this post. For now, you'll just have to take my word for this.

 

I just did a dip test, side by side, using the same pen (a Sheaffer Cadet M nib) with The Real Deal Sapphire and the DCWaites/Barge Faux Penman recipe.

 

They are absolutely, 100%, indistinguishable, The Same. :bunny01: :clap1: :bunny01:

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, David Waites, you ARE the man! Thank you! :notworthy1:

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

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Hello,

That's interesting news. If you would be so kind, could the recipe be made available?

Also, as we know, a dip is not equivalent to a swab , to a ink-up. Please take a moment to see how the mix performs in an FP, ditto PPS.

I have some of 'The Real Deal', 1 bottle & a bit, so am in no nutty panic to get more or conjure-up a faux version, but I am interested in the mix to see what's up.

Best Regards,

S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

 

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Hello,

That's interesting news. If you would be so kind, could the recipe be made available?

Also, as we know, a dip is not equivalent to a swab , to a ink-up. Please take a moment to see how the mix performs in an FP, ditto PPS.

I have some of 'The Real Deal', 1 bottle & a bit, so am in no nutty panic to get more or conjure-up a faux version, but I am interested in the mix to see what's up.

Best Regards,

S1

 

Of course,

 

40 parts PR American Blue, 8 parts Waterman Green, 5 parts (New formula) Quink B/B [4 parts if Vintage Quink]

 

As to your second request, not possible on my end. I don't (as indicated in the OP) have enough of The Real Deal for a full fill. [i have a few pens filled with the Faux Recipe but the color differs a tad from pen to pen depending on nib, flow, etc; The closest *I* could easily do was a dip test using the same paper, same pen and the two different inks.]

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Edited by OcalaFlGuy
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I have already found that both Noodlers Blue and Private Reserve American Blue are quite close to Penman Sapphire as they come right out of the bottle. Sapphire exhibits a smidge more shading, but it's subtle. Sapphire was great stuff in its heyday, back before Noodlers or Private Reserve even existed. By today's ink standards, it's not such a big deal.

 

I've rather lost interest in other blues since I got hold of Texas Blue Bonnet, anyhow.

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I have already found that both Noodlers Blue and Private Reserve American Blue are quite close to Penman Sapphire as they come right out of the bottle. Sapphire exhibits a smidge more shading, but it's subtle. Sapphire was great stuff in its heyday, back before Noodlers or Private Reserve even existed. By today's ink standards, it's not such a big deal.

 

I've rather lost interest in other blues since I got hold of Texas Blue Bonnet, anyhow.

 

I will say, if one didn't want to go to the effort of mixing their own (and I understand that, beleive me) that PR DCSSB is remarkably close to Sapphire on it's own.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

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I would never mix inks from different manufacturers. This are chemicals and as I'm not sure what would be long term impact to my pens, I would never use cocktail like that.

I admire your courage, but no thanks.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just finished a cartridge of Penman Sapphire, and I was quite good. Reminds me of several current inks -- PR American Blue and Noodlers "plain" blue are, indeed, close. Maybe Penman Sapphire was not the all-time champion blue, at least when compared to the many current "micro-brew" inks, but it looks nice. I would use it today if Parker still offered it.

 

Must try Super-Show, I guess.

Washington Nationals 2019: the fight for .500; "stay in the fight"; WON the fight

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I would never mix inks from different manufacturers. This are chemicals and as I'm not sure what would be long term impact to my pens, I would never use cocktail like that.

I admire your courage, but no thanks.

If you're careful it is usually a safe endeavor. There are inks that really should not be mixed, but those have warnings posted all over the Fountain Pen Network. I've been mixing Noodler's inks with Private Reserve inks for years now without bad effect. Two inks of neutral pH are a good starting point for mixing. I have run into a problem with Waterman Florida Blue and Noodler's Gulf Stream Blue, a Swisher Pens exclusive, but no real problems other than that.

 

I've been using some mixtures of Noodler's and Visconti inks for some months now and they've been all right. I've got a Noodler's and Pelikan mixture I'm using right now that I should probably post in the ink recipes section.

 

For a few years I mixed Noodler's Black with no-name black cartridge ink from Poland with no problems at all. I've mixed blue/black inks based on Noodler's Black and all sorts of other manufacturers' blue inks and they've all been fine.

 

I'm even experimenting with mixing Noodler's Black with some ink powder that I had to first add water to before it was actually ink, and that seems to be working all right so far.

 

Of course when in doubt it's always good to mix the ink in some sealed vial and leave it there for 48 hours or more to see if anything counter productive happens. But for the most part mixing inks is pretty harmless and can produce all sorts of great looking ink mixtures :puddle: .

On a sacred quest for the perfect blue ink mixture!

ink stained wretch filling inkwell

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I only wish there were people out there trying to find something closer to Penman Emerald than the (not terrible) PR Ebony Green.

 

I loved the Penman Emerald when it was available. The closest currently available ink I've found is PR Sherwood Green.

"how do I know what I think until I write it down?"

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Oh boy, will have to try the recipe! Then maybe I'll stop hording my stash of Penman and start using it!

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  • 4 weeks later...
I was lucky enough to have another FPNer send me a full bottle of Parker Quink B/B to work up this recipe from who was

also interested in how the recipe would turn out. I am working on a short thank you letter back to him now.

 

I do not have easy access to a scanner. Perhaps he does and I'll make sure he sees this post.

 

Access, and EVENTUALLY he gets around to using it. The part of the letter anyone cares about is below, the sample was written on the very nice Staples bagasse paper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/takematsu/FauxSapphire.jpg

Ravensmarch Pens & Books
It's mainly pens, just now....

Oh, good heavens. He's got a blog now, too.

 

fpn_1465330536__hwabutton.jpg

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Thanks a lot for the scan, Bitterman, the second example is indistinguishable. I would say that the first is indistinguishable from Diamine's Majestic Blue, isn't it?

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I would never mix inks from different manufacturers. This are chemicals and as I'm not sure what would be long term impact to my pens, I would never use cocktail like that.

I admire your courage, but no thanks.

 

Oh, c'mon. It's not like this "cocktail" could be any worse than BayState. If I had hesitations about using either I would just make sure not to leave it in a pen for very long or to try it in a pen I don't care about.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks so much for this recipe. I mixed a small batch today and this is a great color and, so far, a very nice, well-behaved ink. I'll be mixing more, much more - this will become a regular ink for me.

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Erm, this looks like a very nice substitute and must have taken quite a bit of effort to perfect. For that reason, having contributed nothing to the discussion, it's a bit cheeky for me to ask, but.... has anyone found a faux Parker Penman Sapphire containing a bulletproof component? :blush:

 

I know that if the ink is washed away, only the permanent element woud remain fixed in place, but I could very happily live with that.

 

We could have the joy of using this magnificent colour, with the knowledge that at least part of it is archival quality :)

 

Thanks in advance.

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Erm, this looks like a very nice substitute and must have taken quite a bit of effort to perfect. For that reason, having contributed nothing to the discussion, it's a bit cheeky for me to ask, but.... has anyone found a faux Parker Penman Sapphire containing a bulletproof component? :blush:

 

+1

 

... and perhaps an alternative comment that even good water resistance would suffice.

 

I've tried BSB with some enjoyment in a testbed pen, but it did have drawbacks (which many others have discussed at length and sometimes great heat). A (reasonably) water resistant or (semi) bulletproof ink with a Penman Sapphire colour would be an incredible coup.

 

None of this is to take away from the great skill in creating a Parker Penman Sapphire substitute - hats off for that achievement - but simply asking if there are some alternatives with such wonderful colour...

 

 

 

John P.

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Sapphire was great stuff in its heyday, back before Noodlers or Private Reserve even existed. By today's ink standards, it's not such a big deal.

I have to agree. I had a sample of PPS a few years ago and, to me, it was no great shakes. Noodler's Blue is a truer blue, PR DCSS more dazzling, and J. Herbin Bleu Myosotis more subtle, in my view. PPS's novelty as one of the first highly-saturated FP inks has probably helped inflate its legend.

 

How much will a NOS bottle of Baystate Blue fetch 60 years from now, I wonder?

Viseguy

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Sapphire was great stuff in its heyday, back before Noodlers or Private Reserve even existed. By today's ink standards, it's not such a big deal.

I have to agree. I had a sample of PPS a few years ago and, to me, it was no great shakes. Noodler's Blue is a truer blue, PR DCSS more dazzling, and J. Herbin Bleu Myosotis more subtle, in my view. PPS's novelty as one of the first highly-saturated FP inks has probably helped inflate its legend.

 

 

I think that for those who truly 'get' PPS, there's nothing like it. Now this may sound mad, but in my opinion, it's the perfect colour. :rolleyes: Now if only there was a permanent version :unsure:

Edited by parkerstylo
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