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Section trim ring corrosion



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antoniosz

Ok. Viv has been the disciple against gold plated section rings close to the nib, and he is right. Parker Duofolds, Watermans and a whole slew of modern pens suffer from it. What are the recommended steps to avoid/minimize this? (other than not using the pen :)).

 

Not filling through the bottle is possible for C/C fillers, and it should help a little.

Some suggest to apply shellac on it but it is easily scratched.

A thick plating would help as it resists scratching and exposing the substrate. Does this mean that additional plating before usage would extend the file of the trim?

 

Anymore suggestions? Discussion?

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fibreglass_works

Honestly, This has been a Big problem. IMHO the inks are the cause. Plating does not help at all. logically the plating will still corrosed and they look even bad. :crybaby:

 

Ok. Viv has been the disciple against gold plated section rings close to the nib, and he is right. Parker Duofolds, Watermans and a whole slew of modern pens suffer from it. What are the recommended steps to avoid/minimize this? (other than not using the pen :)).

 

Not filling through the bottle is possible for C/C fillers, and it should help a little.

Some suggest to apply shellac on it but it is easily scratched.

A thick plating would help as it resists scratching and exposing the substrate. Does this mean that additional plating before usage would extend the file of the trim?

 

Anymore suggestions? Discussion?

 

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ZeissIkon
Gold plating is corroding from contact with the ink? Gold nibs don't do that... :unsure:

Does not always write loving messages.

Does not always foot up columns correctly.

Does not always sign big checks.

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antoniosz
Gold plating is corroding from contact with the ink? Gold nibs don't do that... :unsure:

 

The gold nibs that you are refering to are solid gold alloys. The trim ring is gold plated onto a substrate.

Pinholes in the gold coating allow for corrosion of the substrate and destroy the cohesion between plating and coating.

As a result the coating flakes off and further corrosion is possible and the trim is cosmetically kaput.

Thicker coatings help. But in many pens this is a true problem.

 

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antoniosz, there is a member here from Chile, I believe? (sorry, can't remember his name) that does plating/replating himself. Maybe he can chime in and explain it a bit more. Is true that the thinner the plate, the faster it goes, even if there is no ink involved. And a true shame and problem in the mentioned pens, among others.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
hazelmorse

I have the same problem with my Waterman Executive. Thought it was brassing (neophyte me) but figured out it's corrosion. There doesn't seem to be an answer yet. What is the material under the plate? Can the old gold plate be gently sanded off and the material underneath polished and sealed?

 

Ok. Viv has been the disciple against gold plated section rings close to the nib, and he is right. Parker Duofolds, Watermans and a whole slew of modern pens suffer from it. What are the recommended steps to avoid/minimize this? (other than not using the pen :)).

 

Not filling through the bottle is possible for C/C fillers, and it should help a little.

Some suggest to apply shellac on it but it is easily scratched.

A thick plating would help as it resists scratching and exposing the substrate. Does this mean that additional plating before usage would extend the file of the trim?

 

Anymore suggestions? Discussion?

 

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I was under the impression that pH-neutral inks would not cause this problem.

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I was under the impression that pH-neutral inks would not cause this problem.

 

 

pH is only one factor in corrosion effects. It's an important one, to be sure, but there are many other issues that can cause deterioration of metals. I discussed this a bit back in a thread titled Polymer and Metal Chemical Resistance.

 

 

 

John P.

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CurlyBarbie

My Montblanc JP Morgan is back to Hamburg because of the same problem. Its platin plated ring corrosed as well.

Just received word that they wont repair it as warranty :-) Costs 318 euro as it supposedly can't be replaced by itself.

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The theory is known. Thin gold plating has pores that allow for corrosion to occur. Thicker platings are susceptible to scratches. It is only the thickest plating that offers protection. Yes some inks are better than others but pH is not the only factor. The questin is - supposed that I have a pen X how do I delay this from happening. Additional plating is possible but not very practical. I am looking for "quick and dirty" solutions (if they exist).

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fibreglass_works

If so I guess a jewel custom a 14/18k ring should help.

Would share your X pen with us. :thumbup:

 

The theory is known. Thin gold plating has pores that allow for corrosion to occur. Thicker platings are susceptible to scratches. It is only the thickest plating that offers protection. Yes some inks are better than others but pH is not the only factor. The questin is - supposed that I have a pen X how do I delay this from happening. Additional plating is possible but not very practical. I am looking for "quick and dirty" solutions (if they exist).

 

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Opera Waterman - it is painful to see it :)

 

AZ

 

 

If so I guess a jewel custom a 14/18k ring should help.

Would share your X pen with us. :thumbup:

 

The theory is known. Thin gold plating has pores that allow for corrosion to occur. Thicker platings are susceptible to scratches. It is only the thickest plating that offers protection. Yes some inks are better than others but pH is not the only factor. The questin is - supposed that I have a pen X how do I delay this from happening. Additional plating is possible but not very practical. I am looking for "quick and dirty" solutions (if they exist).

 

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enjoyed the detailed post by PJohnP very much.. wondering, since I see the effects of plastics and metals held in confined, airtight space, without regard to temperture/humidity control-wonder how this factors in this corrosion?

is this occurring to all these pens? using specific inks? or is polymer offgas, in confined airtight space, then metal corrosion a factor? along with ink type?

p2p

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Gold plating is generally done via chemical or electrical means, preferably over either solid copper or silver but more often cheaper metals are first coated with these barrier metals and then gold plated.

I've seen gold plated metals without these barrier coats, only to have the gold flake off rapidly and the underlying metal thus corroding faster speeds up the process of the gold breaking free.

If the underlying metal is of poor quality, i.e. a porous alloy that isn't properly coated with these metals prior to gold plating, then the gold will sometimes get micro-fissures allowing oxidation under the gold.

Gold plating [gold in general] can be porous and while gold is less likely to oxidize/corrode than silver plating, it has the potential for underlying metals to whisker through the pours and even cause gold itself to "whisker", exposing more of the underlying metal and create greater problems later.

It's often better to plate metals with copper first, then with nickel, prior to gold, so the migration of underlying atoms of the metals into the gold plate takes longer.

It really depends on how the plating is done and on what materials.

Properly done, gold plating can last a lifetime, but this is usually not the norm in mass-production and is why I typically prefer hard nickel or silver/rhodium plated furniture to gold plated parts.

 

As for a "fix", other than completely stripping the old metal and doing the plating properly I can't think of anything offhand.

I've seen gold plated brass with no other barrier coatings, where the gold wears off with time and the underlying brass corrodes.

If by chance the underlying brass is close enough in color to the gold plate you can "sometimes" polish it enough not to be so noticeable.

“I view my fountain pens & inks as an artist might view their brushes and paints.

They flow across paper as a brush to canvas, transforming my thoughts into words and my words into art.

There is nothing else like it; the art of writing and the painting of words!”

~Inka~ [scott]; 5 October, 2009

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All good points that you are making Inka.

At this point the suggested fixes are complete, correct, replating (maybe impractical) or replacement with a custom 14/18 ring

Sometimes I think that the companies are now designing the pens to have a limited life when used ;)

 

 

As for a "fix", other than completely stripping the old metal and doing the plating properly I can't think of anything offhand.

I've seen gold plated brass with no other barrier coatings, where the gold wears off with time and the underlying brass corrodes.

If by chance the underlying brass is close enough in color to the gold plate you can "sometimes" polish it enough not to be so noticeable.

 

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Once repaired you could probably use a good pen wax to help seal the new gold plating.

I've been using waxes with as much pure Carnauba wax in them as I can find, but someone like PJohnP, an actual chemist by trade, may be the best person to say if that's a good thing or not.

Speaking only from personal experience I have found that good quality wax with mostly Brazilian Carnauba palm wax has given me good results in preventative measures even upon gold surfaces.

I'd be very interested in hearing from an expert if I should be using something else, considering the good results I've had so far and myself not wanting to use anything that could create a problem later.

“I view my fountain pens & inks as an artist might view their brushes and paints.

They flow across paper as a brush to canvas, transforming my thoughts into words and my words into art.

There is nothing else like it; the art of writing and the painting of words!”

~Inka~ [scott]; 5 October, 2009

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Joe in Seattle

For my part, I can accept some wear marks on a much used and much loved instrument. Were I concerned about this, I might try a coat of carnuba wax - it would, like shellac, protect the gold from the ink, but also could easily be renewed at minimal expense and convenience periodically.

"how do I know what I think until I write it down?"

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enjoyed the detailed post by PJohnP very much.. wondering, since I see the effects of plastics and metals held in confined, airtight space, without regard to temperture/humidity control-wonder how this factors in this corrosion?

is this occurring to all these pens? using specific inks? or is polymer offgas, in confined airtight space, then metal corrosion a factor? along with ink type?

p2p

 

Just on my way out the door for a business trip, so short shrift on answers for the moment...

 

Polymer offgassing is unlikely to be a culprit in metal corrosion issues. It might well have some influence over other, different, polymers in the pen construction, but likely nothing intense. Most offgassing from polymers would come from either residual monomer in very recently polymerised pellets formed into bars or sheets, or from plasticisers used to make the polymer more flexible. In any case, neither would likely cause the issues identified with gold plating.

 

If the gold plated material is coated with another barrier layer initially, before exposure to inks and a lot of air, it would likely provide some further (limited) protection. Wax or polymer coating of the gold plate would work to some degree in this application.

 

Increased temperature could add to the corrosion speed, but the rate limiting step is likely diffusion of the material attacking the base metal, so I'd not worry so much about temperature (unless you're leaving the pen in the toaster oven !). Humidity could be a factor in corrosion effects in certain cases, but since the inside of the cap area will be roughly 100% relative humidity when closed with evaporation of ink from nib, I'd not get too crazy on this either.

 

Have to run for the airport now. More maybe tomorrow.

 

 

 

John P.

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fibreglass_works

Honestly, No offence to all. None of your way will works cos at the end the corrosion issues due to wear and tear on coating, ink. Air... will happen. Constance cleaning by removing all parts when clean still stand a better chance to prolong the effect. BUT who did that? You are likely to break the pen with serveal attempts. :crybaby:

 

I still feel the 14/18k work better, but again $$$$ concern. :crybaby:

 

I must agreed but nowadays pen built does not last. :crybaby:

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