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  1. A couple of years ago, I found myself on EBay bidding on two pens being sold by someone not familiar with fountain pens. As I recall, they had two Parker 45s and a Parker 61. Of the three, only the one Parker 45 with more in-focus photos was getting any bidding action. I zeroed in on what I hoped would be a double win. I was interested in the Parker 45 because, even though the photos were blurry and under lit, I could see that the nib was gold and that the cap was a nice stainless steel with a gold filled clip. Also, I have wanted to own a Parker 61 so I place bids on both and had over bid enough (I thought) to win the '61 as well as the '45. As it turned out someone else was waiting for the last 15 seconds and then out bid me on the '61. Oh well...I was going to get a Parker 45 with a gold nib! I paid the seller and waited. After about five days a plain manila envelope arrived with no absolutely no padding. I opened the envelope and was greatly disappointed. The barrel of the Parker 45 was in 3 pieces, two quite large and one so tiny that it was easily lost. I took photos and the seller refunded the purchase. I offered to return the broken pen but he said, "No, just throw it away." Well on closer examination, I realized that the cap was wrong! It was a Parker 61 cap! This meant that the person who out bid me on the '61 apparently received a Parker '61 with a Parker '45 cap. I took out the medium point gold nib and installed it in a nice black Parker 45 and put its stainless steel nib away. What to do? I listed the Parker '61 cap on Ebay. It was listed for nearly two months with no takers (that surprised me) so I eventually took it down. Then one day I thought, "what the heck." I got out the super glue and glued the barrel back together. They actually fit together quite nicely but the pen truly looked like "Frankenpen" what with the glue seams showing glaringly. After the pen had dried for about an hour (hey...I was experimenting and did not expect it to work anyway) I grabbed some 2000 grit wet or dry sandpaper and lightly sanded away at all of the seams under the kitchen faucet. What emerged was a pen barrel that at first glance looks totally fine. Closer examination will, however reveal the seams and one small, tiny, tiny, tiny (did I say tiny?) piece that had disappeared in the envelope and was too small to glue in there anyway. As you can tell in photos, the section of this pen has suffered from the plastic shrinking somewhat but I was able to fit the stainless steel nib that I had into this pen. I got a real cheap Jinao International converter (the short variety) and drilled out the opening to fit the Parker, loaded the pen with some Hero 232 Blue Black (a fine ink if you can find it anywhere anymore) and was pleasantly surprised. My little Parker 45/61 Frankenpen goes with us everywhere. It is aboard our boat each sailing season in the navigation drawer. All log entries are made with that pen. It has been in my carry on luggage to Europe and been loaned out a few times. It is a very smooth writing pen and believe it or not, the Parker 61 cap, while not feeling quite as secure on the barrel as a 45 cap does the job. The pen can sit idle for a week or so and still start right up. In addition to the Hero 232, I have run KWZ IG Blue #1, Sailor Jentle Blue, and Hero Carbon Black in the pen. It doesn't seem to mind. I was going to find a new barrel and section and then just move the nib over and create a "perfect Parker 45 with a new cap" but you know what? I love my lowly Frankenpen! So, in relating this story to you, it occurred to me that perhaps there are other Frankenpens out there that have a unique story and are actually being loved and used. Frankenpen anyone? The pen as it arrived: ...and after the glue job and wet-sanding...
  2. Hello again to all my FPN friends, When the original Moonman 80 came out, I resisted buying one because I already have more Parker 45s than I can remember. However, when the 80mini came out I knew it was worth a try, if only to be a recepticle for my favorite Parker 45 gold nibs. Although the quality isn't nearly as good as that of a real Parker 45, these pens still hold their own and nib swappability opens up endless possibilities. How cool is it that I can put a soft 14k UK Parker 45 OBB stub in a tiny pen that will fit in my pocketbook or even directly in my pocket?? Here are some of my impressions after taking the pen apart and playing around with it today: (This first page was written with the stock EF nib. Notice how hard it is to read due to how dry the pen writes.) (Problem solved with a quick and easy nib swap.) Size Comparisons: (top to bottom: Platinum Preppy 02; Pilot 78G; Delike Alpha; Moonman 80mini) Comparison of Nib Assemblies: (Parker 45 on the left; Moonman 80mini on the right) Notice the extra bits of plastic from the injection molding process still on the Moonman's feed and cowl. This leads me to believe that the Moonman will probably write much better if one uses a razor blade to scrape off the extra plastic bits and floss the channels. Moonman 80mini vs. my son's "moon man":
  3. This advert is COMPLETED!

    • For Sale
    • Used

    Hello All, For sale is a Parker 45 Flighter with gold trim and a truly extra fine 14k gold nib. The pen comes the original Parker squeeze converter, which actually holds quite a lot of ink. This pen is in excellent condition. There are no dings in the cap or gouges on the body, only a few micro-scratches and a little pocket wear at the end (see photo). It may be all matching original parts, as all parts are made in England and the nib has the correct matching collar marked with an ‘X’ for extra fine. About the nib: I bought this pen from someone in Japan and the nib appears to have been tuned to be more suitable for Asian scripts. It writes a finer line width than most Western EF nibs (somewhere between Japanese F and EF) and is a little on the dry side, perfect for writing truly fine lines. See details and pics below. PRICE: $55 (USPS Priority Shipping included, payment by Venmo, Zelle, or PayPal only) SALES TO CON-US ONLY. (Please do not ask me to ship outside of the Continental United States.) Details: Barrel: Metal w/ Gold Trim Grip: Plastic w/ Gold Trim Cap: Metal w/ Gold Trim Cap mechanism: Snap Cap Filling mechanism: Parker Converter or Cartridge (original converter included) Nib: Extra Fine (X) 14k Gold Nib (Made in England) Condition: Excellent Country of Origin: Made in England (including nib and converter)


    , California - US

  4. This advert is COMPLETED!

    • For Sale
    • Used

    Happy New Year Everyone! For sale is a Parker 45 in gray and gold trim with a smooth medium 14k gold nib. The pen comes the original, fully functional Parker squeeze converter, which actually holds quite a lot of ink. This pen is in excellent condition. There are no dings in the cap or gouges on the body, only a few micro-scratches from age. This is destined to be a great workhorse and perfect first vintage pen! See details and pics below. PRICE: $50 (USPS Priority Shipping included, payment by Venmo, Zelle, or PayPal only) SALES TO CON-US ONLY. (Please do not ask me to ship outside of the Continental United States.) Details: Barrel: Gray Plastic w/ Gold Trim Grip: Gray Plastic w/ Gold Trim Cap: Metal w/ Gold Trim Cap mechanism: Snap Cap Filling mechanism: Parker Converter or Cartridge (converter included) Nib: Medium 14k Gold Nib (Made in USA) Condition: Excellent Country of Origin: Made in USA (including nib and converter)


    , California - US

  5. So my pen dealer out of the blue messages me yesterday to tell me that she's got a NOS Parker 25 for me. We go back and forth with pictures and pricing and she also discloses the existence of a Parker 45 Convertible GT with a 14K gold nib that is also for sale. Resistance is futile and so I cave in! Today I picked up these two beauties: an old NOS Parker 25 Stainless Steel with black trim with original box, original Spanish sticker price hanging from the clip, and a clear tag identifying this pen as a 25 with a fine nib. Turns out the pen was made in England between 1975 and 1979 as there is no code in the cap. It is a flat top with no dimple. Lovely pen! And then, I get the Parker 45 which came with a black barrel, a 14K fine nib and an original metal squeeze converter. All these for just $53!! I already have a bunch of 45 pens, but none made in the US (only England and Mexico), and none with a gold nib or gold trim. I promptly switched the barrel to a Flighter one I had from a pen that came with a faulty section, since I already have an Arrow and a Convertible pen with a black barrel. What do you all think?
  6. Dip n Scratch

    Moonman 80

    Does the long Moonman 80 take genuine Parker cartridges with a good, tight fit. I have a pack of Parker Blue/Black cartridges to use up. It is sad that while the pen is a clone of the Parker 45 it isn't an exact copy when it comes to the nib unit. It wouldn't screw all the way into my Parker 45. It's 'M' nib is broader than I like.
  7. I would like an opinion about the prices for a couple used Parker 45 Flighter Deluxe I found someone selling. Would you buy? The first Parker 45 Flighter Deluxe is a 1960's vintage (black endcap) it looks very good, some signs of use but no deep scratches, pictures are not clear enough to notice small details. He wants $12 for this one. This Parker 45 Flighter Deluxe is a 1970's vintage (gold endcap) clear pictures of it, it looks like it is in excellent condition, no scratches and very minimal wear and tear, barely used or well taken care of, it includes the original Parker pen case. He wants $17 for this one. And honorable mention (because I don't think I want this one, but if you guys tell me to grab it I will for the heck of it and gift it to someone) Parker 45 GT (I think) has a navy gray body and a metal cap with gold trims, clear pictures on it and it looks ok, there are many scratches and details everywhere but nothing too terrible. He wants $10. What do you guys think? Should I buy? Seller is local BTW, so they won't do international shipping, I would share contact information otherwise.
  8. Inkysloth

    Parker 45 Desk Pen - Propeller Base

    Hi folks, I've just bought a desk pen from Ebay, and I'd like to know if there's a list anywhere of all the Magnetix desk bases Parker made? This is the propeller base, with a nice brass-ended desk 45, with a 14ct medium nib. Did 3rd party manufacturers make bases compatible with the Magnetix system? Parker 45 propeller desk pen by Robin Inkysloth, on Flickr Parker 45 propeller desk pen by Robin Inkysloth, on Flickr
  9. I suppose this could be the beginning of a debate but I have noticed something that is a bit surprising to me. My experience (so far, at least) would indicate that the Parker 45 is typically a smoother writing pen than the "51." Let me explain: About 5 years ago, I purchased my very first Parker 51, a1949 Aerometric from the daughter of its original owner, a man who obviously took good care of his Parker 51. The pen is the classic Forest Green with a 14K Gold-filled cap and is a wonderfully writing fountain pen. Since then, I have purchased two more "51s" truly "in the wild." Both of them are vacumatics. All three of my "51s" have the more common fine to medium fine nib and all three have about the same degree of writing smoothness with, perhaps, my first "51" being the smoothest. Just a few days ago I posted a response on this forum about Parker 45 converters and an experience I had with my first "45." All of this got me to thinking because I now have 4 Parker "45s" and, with the exception of one of them, they seem to write with a smoothness one would expect from a "51." In fact those three "45s" write smoother than all three of my "51s." So my question is this: Did Parker really perfect their expertise in "nibology" (is that a new word?) to the point that the somewhat inexpensive Parker 45 consistently writes with "51" or better smoothness or do I have three "51s" that are not characteristic of how smoothly a "51" can write? Granted, it seems that the "45" is typically a wetter writing pen and the finer nibs of my 3 "51s" would naturally "feel" less smooth because of a smaller contact surface but the question, I believe, is one worthy of comment by those of you with more experience in this area. Cliff
  10. I accidentally came across a nice pen which I want to have for quite sometime. A Parker 45: Gold Cap, 14K Fine nib, made in USA, black Barrel. The one I got is quite old, but writes very well. As you can see above, there are lots of mini (not micro) scratchings and rust maybe around the pen, turn up I bought it as the price is nice and I really love the shape of the 45. After writing some days, today I return her beauty. I need a princess, not a muddy frog... What I need? [1] Tamiya Compound, Course, Fine, and Finish. [2] Cape Cod polish cloth. (it is much better than the Autosol paste) [3] Some rayon eyeglasses cloth, or you can get some fine micro fibre cloth, or even just some cloth. [4] glove [5] cotton buds & paper towels. What to do? [1] Wear the glove. And wash the pen under tab, some mild detergent may help but I just use water this time, beware of flushing small parts away.... [2] dry the parts with paper towel [3] polishing the barrel [3.1] squeeze some Coarse Compound on the barrel or on the cloth and polish with a fine cloth, for a pen barrel, say 5 mins is good enough. [3.2] wash off under tap and slightly wipe dry with paper towel [3.3] repeat 3.1 & 3.2 [3.4] use another new cloth, repeat as Coarse, but using Fine and then Finish (so total you wash six times. for the section area, I use Fine compound for one more time as the scratches from the metal cap are severe. [4] polishing the metal parts [4.1] cut a little piece of Cape Cod is fine for a pen, in my case, about 3 x 3 cm is good. [4.2] when the metal part starts, everything will gone black, many oxidised powder will come out. Just continue to polish like 5 mins, until you feel fine. And during polishing the metal, you could wipe off the blackenings by a paper towel. [4.3] when it is done, wash your hand. then using the soft fine cloth to wipe off the blackenings from the metal surface. ATTENTION: if it is gold plated, I suggest a mild polishing procedures to be followed, otherwise if the plating is too thin, the plating could have a possibility to be wiped off by the polishing ingredient. For my case, although the cap is gold filled, I just have it polished slightly, so that there are still some micro scratches left behind. But anyway, it works really good already. And don't use too much force on polishing to avoid breaking the pen, man, the pen is old already. Quick, but not hard. upper left, use cotton bud to polish and dry the small parts. upper right, the compound paste bottom left, the size of the Cape Cod cloth bottom right, half way done, after Coarse and Fine Compound polishing. What I get? TADA! I use a brand new Sailor Professional Gear for comparison.
  11. This pen works really well. It's an achievement in terms of design and functionality. The more I use and understand it, the more I appreciate what the Parker 45 accomplished. Size - For everyday school/business use, the size works. It is unobtrusive but sturdy. Easy on the shirt pocket. The pen is big enough to use unposted but is just that much more comfortable posted. It is a slim pen.Weight - Unposted the pen is light and agile. Posted it feels solid but still a very easy writer.Nib - The semi-hooded nib ensures the pen stays ready to write. The screw-in nib-feed assembly locks in alignment and takes the guesswork out of nib maintenance.Cap - The friction cap is as simple and fast to use. The cap posts deeply so the posted length feels hardly longer than unposted. I haven't found that posting the cap scratches the barrel.Section - The section is long and smooth making it easy to grip anywhere that's comfortable.Filling mechanism - The pen uses cartridges or a converter, i.e., the modern standard. Here's my take on why Parker made the 45. I'd love to hear what people more familiar with the story have to say. By the mid 60s the Parker 51 was also showing its age. Nib maintenance on the Parker 51 was non-trivial and beyond what most owners could manage. If you wanted to change or repair a nib, you had to send the pen away for the work.The Parker 51 filling system required owners to have bottled ink on hand. If you were away from your desk when the pen ran out, you had a problem. I suspect lots of people carried a couple of pens to make sure that didn’t happen.The Parker 45 solved both of those problems. The screw in nib/feed unit made swapping nibs trivial. In a pinch, owners could do it themselves. Parker advertised a free nib swapping service for 30 days after purchase.The Parker 45 used ink cartridges. This meant users could easily bring along spare ink and never have to worry about the pen running dry. (It could also use a converter for bottled ink.)Parker also found ways to make the pen cheaper through new materials and improved manufacturing. The Parker 45 was a huge hit. It caught the market at just the right moment when people were looking for better, cheaper solutions. It was only discontinued in 2007! And Moonman? So why does this pen exist from a Chinese company? Blame it on Deng Xiaoping. National Archives and Records Administration [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons In the late 70s Parker decided they wanted to go to China. The market was showing signs of opening (thanks to Deng) and China offered interesting OEM possibilities. So they paid a visit and set up an exploratory project with Hero. As part of the deal they transferred the design and manufacturing process for the 45. Parker ultimately abandoned the effort but left the IP behind as compensation for Hero’s investment. Frank Underwater tells the story from the Chinese side of things. Hero didn’t let the knowledge go to waste. They made pens, notably the Hero 800 and now, it seems, the Moonman 80 as an OEM project for Shanghai Jindian 上海晶典. So the Moonman 80 is based on the original Parker 45 design but is produced as an authorized clone. Moonman 80 Writing Experience With the F nib (the pen also comes with an EF nib that I don't care for), the pen is a wet and generous writer. It requires little or no pressure. In fact, the less the better. The nib offers a useful sweet spot gives moderate feedback. Waterman Absolute Brown looks great with the F nib. The Moonman 80 costs ¥49.00 on Taobao or less than US$7.50. It is also available in lower-cost 80s variants that come with plastic caps. (The 80s mini looks alot like a Pilot 95 Elite.) All of the Moonman 80 models use the same nib units so they should write the same. Since I experienced the vintage Aurora 88, I’ve come to appreciate semi-hooded nib pens. The design represents an interesting approach to the problem keeping pens ready to write. If you're a Parker 45 fan, you probably know about the Moonman 80 already. If you are just getting into fountain pens and want to see what the business was up to in the 60s, the Moonman 80 can help shed some light. More photos and comments here.
  12. DasKaltblut

    Moonman 80 Vs. Parker 45

    I finally recieved my Moonman 80, a Parker 45 clone. It is in fact so much of a clone that the caps, bodies and converters are all interchangeable. There are 3 cap patterns, I got the striped. They fit perfectly on each other. Except for the metal part at the bottom of the Moonman, this is a near exact replica. It writes nicely, no issues with the nib either. I've compared it here with my father's old P45 that he wrote with so much he wore finger divets into the section. No idea how to fix the P45, but the Moonman will do for me in the meantime! Also, the box was really nice, which is somewhat unusual for Chinese pens.
  13. alexwi

    Grind And Rescue

    Hi y'all, Got a Parker 45 recently and it had a broken nib, so last Sunday I figured that I might grind it like there's no tomorrow. After all, I had nothing to lose. (I was in a grinding mood anyway, as I sharpened three knives earlier that day.) Started with a diamond knife sharpener I had lying around, to shape the nib, and then followed with the entire gamut of micromesh. the most challenging part was to get a flat section out of a concave object (remember, the tip of the nib was missing). The pictures show the result of each step, first with the sharpener and then as I polished with the micromesh (I love this stuff and hate that I barely have any time to indulge in this). I'm not sure that I have a pen smoother than this one now. After narrowing the tip of the nib as much as possible, I turned it into a stub or italic or whatever that's called. Symmetry could be a bit better, but it works, so I ain't touching it further. And without further ado, the pictures! alex
  14. gibbs

    Parker 45 Z Vs Y Nibs

    I own a number of parker 45 nibs and while looking on ebay to try and track down the missing ones I came across a Y nib I have however been unable to find any information on then although it does look kind of similar to the Z nib and wondered if anyone knew abit more about them
  15. I have a Parker 45 Flighter with a black tail that has deep bite marks on it. They are too deep to polish out. Already tried that. I wondered about buying a cheap Flighter, hopefully with perfect black tail, but first please can anyone let me know how easy is it to unscrew these black tail end pieces? Are they all the same size and fitting method whether they are English or USA made? Are they glued in as well as being screwed in? If there are differences that I need to know before I start, how can I tell them apart? Thanks.
  16. Hello! This is technically my second topic, but I only just found out about this introduction forum. I've been pretty active on reddit.com/r/fountainpens (my username is the same as on here) these past couple months, but I thought I'd join this forum as well! I've been using fountain pens since I was 13 I think, but around sometime last year I kind of started collecting more pens. Up to that moment I had written with a cheap (around 3 euros) fountain pen from a Dutch store. That one had been used and abused a lot, so I wanted to buy a new pen. At this point I didn't know much about fountain pens, so I got a Parker Jotter, thinking it would be a good pen (because it was a Parker). I also just really love Parker's arrow clip and have pretty small hands, so I thought I'd like it. I didn't, and started using my old pen again, mostly. Then later I got a Jinhao x750 (white) and a Lamy Safari (Petrol, F) and I really liked those. I started buying more inks, and ended up with a couple more Chinese pens, including a black matte x750, a Jinhao 992 and a Jinhao 911. A few days ago I got a Parker 45 CT Flighter with a 14K nib (a Fine, I'm pretty sure), which is my first "serious" pen, I suppose. I recently got a bottle of Rohrer & Klingner Alt-Goldgrün. I'm usually not a fan of bright colours, but this one is such a joy to use. Other than that I've been using Lamy Petrol, Pelikan Brilliant Brown and Waterman Absolute Brown a lot. I'm planning on ordering some iron gall ink and other permanent ink soon, I'm currently looking at KWZ Mandarin, Turquoise and Noodler's Black. The latter not being too exciting, but the only black I currently own is Waterman Intense Black and it's not permanent and not, well, intense enough for me. I'm planning on buying a black Pilot 91 with a SFM, FM or SF nib this month. I actually have a question about that to anyone who owns a Pilot soft nib: would you say it's suitable for quick, daily note taking? Or would I be better off with a stiffer, regular nib? Also, would you say a SFM would be too wet to use on cheap paper? I'm a college student, so being able to use it on cheap paper would definitely help. Sincerely, thespyingdutchman
  17. Hello, I recently got a Parker 45 Flighter with a 14K gold nib. I really love it, it has been a great writer so far. I'm really interested in trying some iron gall inks, because I like the permanence aspect to them, as well as the fact that they darken the longer they are on the page. I just really like the idea of them and would like to try some out. I was thinking of trying KWZ Turquoise and Mandarin in particular, because I love the colours and they're supposedly really wet inks, which I think would go well with the pretty dry, fine nib I have on the 45. I want to use them in the 45 because it doesn't seem to have any metal parts that could corrode, has a gold nib and is easy to take apart and clean. Anyway, are there any parts that could corrode that I might be missing? Or are there any other reasons why you'd advice against using iron gall in this particular pen? I know the risks of iron gall inks. I clean my pens very often and use them daily, so I think I'd be fine. I just don't want to ruin my pen because I missed something. Thanks.
  18. Hi FPN! I'm new on this forum (I usually browse reddit.com/r/fountainpens), so I'm still learning how all this works. This seems to be the right place to ask my questions. I just ordered a vintage Parker pen from a seller in my country (The Netherlands). Here are some pictures the seller provided. It looks like a Parker 45 Flighter to me, but I'm not sure and by no means an expert. I paid 20 euros for it, which is around $25. Can you help me identify the model of the pen? And is 20 euros a good deal? I think I read somewhere $20-$30 is a normal price for this pen. The seller said it does have a date engraved on the barrel, but as long as it's just a date I think it's actually pretty cool. And to anyone who owns this pen, would you recommend it as a daily carry for a college student? Thanks in advance! EDIT: I had a question about what converter this pen takes, but I've edited this out because I've found my answer.
  19. gibbs

    Parker 45 Clicking Nib

    I have a parker 45 fitted with an extra fine nib. While I was at work it rolled off my knee onto the floor, I am now starting to question whether its a rule that the rarer a nib is the more likely something is to go wrong as I've placed my TWSBI down in exactly the same way more time than I can count and it's never moved. The nib shifted slightly but with very gentle pressure from my thumbnail, it went back into place. Luckily I had brought my other 45 nibs into work with me to give them a dunk into some gold cleaner so I had something to compare it to. Even before I put it back into place it continued to write fine and still does after however, I noticed that it occasionally clicks if my angle changes past a certain point while writing. Now I am not 100% sure if it did click before the fall as I had only fitted the nib the day before and hadn't used it much. But I am wondering is it something that I should take steps to fix and if so what would be the best course of action. Or considering the fact that it writes fine should I just leave it be.
  20. H1N

    Parker 45

    Hello It's all about Parker 45! as a Pen, nib or any part... photos, links or even drawings will help us to know more about this mighty Pen and its variety models. Best regards H1N
  21. El Gordo

    What Does I7 On A Parker 45 Mean ?

    OK, it is weird, I own the P45 some 40-50 years and only noticed it today ... The pen has my name engraved (on the barrel), and when I look at my name, o vanity, I can not see the other engraving (on the section close to the barrel on the opposite side of my name. It reads I7 (or 17 sans-serif?) but this does not seem to be in the list of date codes for Parker ? Any idea ?
  22. I have found a Parker 45 propelling pencil. Can anyone advise if there's any lead that will fit it? Thank you
  23. chromantic

    P45 - Stampings On Caps

    I have four 45s, 3 US and 1 UK. All of the caps have "PARKER" stamped under the clip and "Made in US/UK" on the back. Two of them, 1 US and 1 UK, also have a large "45" stamped on each side between the front and back stamps. Might this indicate, approximately, when they were made? There are no yr/qtr stamps on them, like on my Frontiers.
  24. Any tips on tightening the clutch fingers on a Parker 45 to cure a loose fitting cap? I understand that taking the cap apart is the best method but I don't know if mine is held in place with a rivet or a screw-in jewell. (I do have a jewell top.) I have tried bending the clutch fingers by sticking a screw driver in the cap but can't seem to reliably "catch" on the fingers. Any tips? Thanks in advance.
  25. superglueshoe

    Are Parker 45 Steel Nibs Prone To Corrosion?

    I bought a new (supposedly nos) Parker 45 nib assembly in gold trim recently. It writes nicely but when I disassembled it, lo and behold underneath the nib are little craters of varying size. What could've caused this? Is it corrosion? Should I be careful what inks to use? It writes nicely so I want to save it haha.

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