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Repair "don't"s


Guest Denis Richard

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Guest Denis Richard

Based on the awful things you must see sometimes, when you have to fix amateur repairs, why would you say are the worst things to do to a pen ?

 

Denis.

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Bad repairs...let me count the ways...

 

If a lever bar is stuck in place, DON'T force it up... the pen will have to be disassembled and the petrified sac will have to be removed. Do this on a vintage Waterman and you will crack the lever box in half...it ain't pretty.

 

Contact cement is evil stuff and I only use it for a few things as it is really hard to remove. DON'T even get me started on Loctite.

 

DON"T practice your nib working skills on good nibs foras good as I may be, I cannot repair everything... buy some junkers and experiement on those.

 

DON'T use india ink in a fountain pen. It will choke to death.

 

In short... if you are uncomfortable performing any repair DON'T do it until you really know what you are doing.

 

Most people who do repair pens will share their knowledge freely although I have been known to charge a virtual quarter.

 

:D

Please visit http://members.shaw.ca/feynn/

Please direct repair inquiries to capitalpen@shaw.ca

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And of course... there are pliers that work well on pens and pliers that don't.

 

One has to know the difference to prevent scarring perfectly good pens for life. My pliers from hell look hideous but they are actually as gentle as can be.

Please visit http://members.shaw.ca/feynn/

Please direct repair inquiries to capitalpen@shaw.ca

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What not to do hhhmmm.........

 

Don't try to remove a "cold" section. always use a little heat to help ease it out first. This will save you a lot of cracked barrels.

 

Don't grab the sides of the nib and twist/pull trying to remove it. If you'r not going to use a knock out block always hold the nib in your thumb and index finger. Thumb on the feed and nib lying flat on your finger in betewwn the first and sceond joints

 

never flush your pens with bleach. Use instead a 1/5 ratio or water and amonia. NEVER NEVER NEVER MIX BLEACH AND AMONIA!! Chlorine gas can kill you!!

 

regular unpadded pliers are the worst thing for a section.

 

Never grab the nib/feed with pliers of any kind

 

NEVER HOLD A PEN IN YOUR TEETH!!!

 

(IMHO pen chewers should be thrown screaming from a hovering helicoptor......lol)

 

Like Keith said no rubber cement or locktite...nasty stuff to be sure. There are only a couple of rare times you'll need rubber cement.

 

Thats all that comes to mind at the moment, i'm sure something else will hit me later.

 

Dennis

THE PEN DEN

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I'm confused.

 

I don't think of "contact cement" and "rubber cement" as the same thing. Many of the instructions for snorkel repair include rubber cement. it comes up often in discussions of pen repair as a good sealant that is easily removed and therefore safe.

 

of course, never drop a nib in the bottle of rubber cement. Especially not a Mont Blanc nib. :( (we won't go there)

KCat
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Venerable are letters, infinitely brave, forlorn, and lost. V. Woolf, Jacob's Room

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ain't the 'net wun'erful.

 

Yes, I can see why this would be a big "no-no" around FPs. Like "superglue."

 

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/de...id=148&plid=613

KCat
Save animal lives - support your local animal shelter

My personal blog https://kcdockalscribbling.com

My nature blog https://kcbeachscribbles.com
Venerable are letters, infinitely brave, forlorn, and lost. V. Woolf, Jacob's Room

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  • 2 weeks later...
ain't the 'net wun'erful.

 

Yes, I can see why this would be a big "no-no" around FPs. Like "superglue."

 

It is, although sometimes a mixed blessing ;)

 

Regarding Glues, perhaps it would be a good idea to put material regarding glues / adhesives in a glue only thread for reference. I'd certainly enjoy reading of experiences people have had with glues that we could learn from.

 

I'd like to try out a generalization on the forum though - and that is; "there are no 'bad' glues, just glues that are not intended for the application", think of 'Post It Notes' - a failed glue that ultimately found its place in everyone's life.

 

Suitability is of particular concern in the FP field where some of the pen materials are sensitive to some glues, where the parts are intended for infrequent (but necessary) dissassembly, or when polishing or flexibility are properties of interest - indeed the permanence of the glue may be a particular concern.

 

What we've seen mentioned so far include:

Cyanoacrylate - CA - 'Superglue', many FP applications, strong, hard, takes a polish well.

Contact Cement - (Locite?) - no obvious applications for FP. (Note - Locktite makes many adhesive products - is not a synonym for Contact Cement).

Rubber Cement - Originally a paper cement - good sealer, poor adhesive - good removability.

Shellac - Originally a wood finishing product - good sealer for sac's (some sections) solvent alcohol/heat, removeable.

 

Other Glues:

Epoxy - Strong, some FP applications - consumer grade epoxy doesn't take a polish well. Purity a consideration (life of repair). Dental two part resins are expensive, and the best to use for professional results.

Polyurethane - Good adhesive, used in pen kit-building, cementing brass tube in turned barrel. Flexible and gap filling - expands to fill voids.

 

Solvents:

Used to repair by dissolving the plastic, then welding parts together through evaporation. Difficult to find the appropriate solvent for every plastic.

Acetone: common, volatile chemical - some caution needed in use.

MEK (Methyl Ethyl Keytone) - strong volatile chemical - caution needed in use.

 

Perhaps others would care to correct, comment or add to this initial listing of glues etc.???

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Now, what about silicone?

Me and my obsessive search (click on THIS LINK if you're that curious :) ) to find silicone "grease" has led me to products at the local hardware store that are labelled "silicone adhesive" or "silicone sealant".

 

Any comments on them? Are they really "glues" or.....?

 

I shudder to think what would happen if a pen repair newbie put them on a piston-filler rod, thinking they were silicone "grease" instead :o ...

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Rubber Cement - Originally a paper cement - good sealer, poor adhesive - good removability.

Gerry,

 

Which Rubber Cement are you referring to? Here we have the Dunlop Glue which is really rubber in a dissolved form. And a poor adhesive it is not. Once dried, there is no way you can pull the items apart unless you use a solvent.

T-H Lim

Life is short, so make the best of it while we still have it.

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Now, what about silicone?

 

Any comments on them? Are they really "glues" or.....?

 

I shudder to think what would happen if a pen repair newbie put them on a piston-filler rod, thinking they were silicone "grease" instead :o ...

indeed they are "glues" of a sort. Most are actually for caulking or otherwise forming a water-tight seal. And yes, whenever the talk of silicone grease comes up I try to remember to warn against silicone sealant. In fact, in my search for the grease a couple of years ago a well-meaning young man in an auto parts store led me to the "100% silicone sealant" aisle. And I did see one post on PT a long time ago - someone said "I found (name of silicone sealant.) Is this the stuff I use to fix my Pelikan piston?"

 

needles to say - lots of frantic "ACK! NO!" responses.

KCat
Save animal lives - support your local animal shelter

My personal blog https://kcdockalscribbling.com

My nature blog https://kcbeachscribbles.com
Venerable are letters, infinitely brave, forlorn, and lost. V. Woolf, Jacob's Room

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Rubber Cement - Originally a paper cement - good sealer, poor adhesive - good removability.

Gerry,

 

Which Rubber Cement are you referring to? Here we have the Dunlop Glue which is really rubber in a dissolved form. And a poor adhesive it is not. Once dried, there is no way you can pull the items apart unless you use a solvent.

Perhaps here in Canada it's understood to be a product to be used for both temporary and more permanent paper to paper adhesion. You might use it to mount photographs or for cut and paste applications like scrapbooks. If you apply it to one surface and attach, it is very removable, if applied to both paper surfaces, it's much stronger. Often made by Carter or Ross.

 

It is not the 'rubber cement' used for attaching patches to tires, for example - which is probably the one you are referring to, and which would be a real problem with pens.

 

Gerry

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Now, what about silicone?

Me and my obsessive search (click on THIS LINK if you're that curious :) ) to find silicone "grease" has led me to products at the local hardware store that are labelled "silicone adhesive" or "silicone sealant".

 

Any comments on them? Are they really "glues" or.....?

 

I shudder to think what would happen if a pen repair newbie put them on a piston-filler rod, thinking they were silicone "grease" instead  :o ...

Yup, they are glues and caulking material, and automotive gasket material, among dozens of other applications. Want an idea of how good they can be as a glue? Check out a pet store that has large aquariums for sale - really large - note that they are made out of plate glass (sometimes 1/2" or more thick) glued only at the edge against the other glass plate. That's Silicone Glue (or seal). There is usually no other support provided, and water at a reasonable depth offers a *lot* of pressure. I believe that many soap holders are mounted to the bathroom tiles using this material, and of course it is a mainstay for caulking around tubs etc. Have even used it to repair sneakers.

 

I'm not sure where I would use it in a FP repair though. Perhaps if a permanent seal were needed, but it tends to get around mysteriously somehow, sealing where it isn't wanted... <_<

 

 

There is a solvent available - or so I believe. Sold in hardware stores to soften and remove old silicone caulk around basins and tubs. Might help with the lubricated piston filler... :P

 

Gerry

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  • 3 months later...

We use shellac on most things because it can be easily loosened if needed to be repaired. I use to use rubber cement for the shells on 51s but now use shellac because it is easier to break the bond, yet strong enough to hold so that it will never loosen off the threads.

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I've got one, I've got one ! Well.. two actually :

 

1) Don't soak BHR in cold water for 2 days, it tends to turn olive..

 

2) Don't think you can freeze off melted ink sac residue out of a snorkel part by putting it in the freezer ( and end up not being able to find the part anywher e between the frozen meat, green peas and .. well, you get the picture ).

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silicone glue sold by radio shack is something i use a lot for pen repair. notice that i use it for sealing purposes, such as sealing the end of a barrel or blind cap for ED conversion. it is reversible with some effort. i have created inner caps and plugs for damaged inner caps with silicone glue with success.

 

i also use silicone glue to stop the ends of longer sac bits, to reuse them as regular sacs in my lever fillers. have you had to cut 60 percent of a sac in order to resac a mini leverfiller? has that long rubber tube with both ends open tortured you with its wasted potential? just plug up one end with silicone glue, and a sac is ready to go!

 

as an advanced aside, the silicone plug applied especially to silicone sacs gives you a grip on the sac when you make twist fillers that have to be operated by manually twisting the sac from the blind cap end.

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  • 8 months later...

I'm resurrecting this thread since it is both topical, and needs to be added to. I would like to see people's comments re Silicone lubricant added to this area, so we have a ready reference thread for materials used in pen repair / refurbishment.

 

Let me add a controvorseial thought... The 100% Silicone lube mantra often repeated is not necessarily correct. [Let's let that sit for a few posts before I explain my position...]

 

Gerry

Edited by Gerry
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Gerry,

 

Are we talking trade names or actual material contents? The name Silcone works a lot like Loctite. Both are used as trade names for varied products and then sometimes for a specific material or product... can get confusing and misleading if not careful.

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When I say silicone - I mean the material - not the trade name. Yes, there are a lot of 'appropriations' as far as names go, but in this context remember that the goal is to avoid the adverse reaction that a lot of hydrocarbon based lubricants have to rubber products.

 

I am sure that I oversimplify - since I expect that an engineer familiar with lubricating materials will have volumes of information that pertain to the proper lubrication of rubber and plastic materials.

 

What has happened in the pen repair field is that some people have seized on the destructive effects of petroleum based lubricants on rubber products. This was extrapolated to all lubricants except 100% silicone based being required to prevent adverse reactions with the rubber products used in fountain pens - ie the latex sacs primarily, as well as the rubber O-rings used for sealing.

 

I am only trying to remind people that any lubricant used in a pen should be compatible with latex rubber as well as the material used in the O-ring construction, and that doesn't necessarily have to be 100% silicone lube.

 

Many applications - like brake lubricant and bicycle chain lubricant, are designed not to attack the rubber used in those applications. These lubricants should be safe for use in pens as well.

 

Remember - the problem you are trying to avoid is *only* the premature replacement of a sac or seal that you are likely replacing at this time. Not the potential destruction of the whole pen you are restoring... So it isn't an apocalyptic event - but rather one that you are capable of dealing with anyway.

 

So, for recommendations - I have only six (in no particular order):

Try a plumbing supply store and ask for the grease recommended for Moen (for example) faucets - its silicone based, and won't attack rubber O-rings,

Try an automotive supply store and ask for a brake parts lubricant,

Try an electronics supply store and ask for a dielectric grease for power transistors or SCR's,

Try a SCUBA shop and ask for a grease (lube) for their compressed air components,

Try a bicycle shop and ask for a grease that will not deteriorate rubber O-rings in the chain system.

 

Do not press these people as to whether their product is 100% silicone - they don't know, and it doesn't matter... or...

 

Try a pen repair supply shop (like Tryphon, WoodBin etc.) and ask for their silicone based lube.

 

Regards

 

Gerry

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I agree. A person should first understand what they are trying to accomplish and then seek out the material that will work best for their situation or task. A materials listing such as yours, along with some foreknowledge of the product, is helpful. Simply going into an outlet and asking for some Silcone grease will get you just about anything under the sun. This is one of those cases where the consumer needs to be the better educated of the two. If one is unsure, then buying from a pen repair outlet seems best.

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